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Regarding not releasing sales figures: Apple already was afraid (and rightly so) before sale start of the watch that it won't sell well enough for the foreseeable future - therefore the "We won't publish numbers" self-insurance. (Claiming it is because of not wanting to give competitors an advantage or whatever the specious official "reason" is.) At least this is my opinion. What I am *sure* about is though: Apple would have been the first to break their own rule without any hestation, but proud chest if the watch sales would have turned out great / better than expected ...
 
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Comapred to what? Amount of people on the planet?

How about the potential market for the iPhone?

There are about 400 million active iPhones worldwide, the majority of which are compatible with the Watch. Apple has in one year sold to less than ~4% of that well defined, exclusive market (and the only potential customers who can currently use the Watch). That's pretty slim.
 
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You've taken what I wrote out of context. The current rumor is that all Apple is releasing related to the watch at the March 21 Spring event, a year after they started selling (and 20 months after they announced) the Gen 1 Watch, are new watch bands, and possibly case colors/materials and partnerships.

I'm sure they are working on a gen 2 watch. They just aren't rumored to be releasing it a year after the first watch, with respect to sales increasing a year after the the first iPhone was released, following which they also released the gen 2 iPhone, and thus motivating sales growth.
The second generation iPhone wasn't released a year after the first, either.
 
How about the potential market for the iPhone?
Why would you compare it to the market for an iPhone?
Ridiculous.
Might as well say the Apple TV is a no go compared to how many TVs are sold each year.
Coincidentally, do you have any numbers on how many people who have an iPhone even wear watches?
There are about 400 million active iPhones worldwide, the majority of which are compatible with the Watch.
How do you know the majority of iPhones out there are compatible with the Apple Watch. Link?
Apple has in one year sold to less than ~4% of that well defined, exclusive market (and the only potential customers who can currently use the Watch). That's pretty slim.
Not when you consider total smart watches sold for all vendors.

The article is talking smart watch sales, not how many people who own iPhones didn't buy an Apple smart watch.

Buying a smart phone is one thing, a smart watch another.
They each have different uses therefore attract different clientle.
The two don't have to closely correlate.
That is an imposition posed by personal opinion.
 
Why would you compare it to the market for an iPhone?
Ridiculous.
Might as well say the Apple TV is a no go compared to how many TVs are sold each year.
Coincidentally, do you have any numbers on how many people who have an iPhone even wear watches?

How do you know the majority of iPhones out there are compatible with the Apple Watch. Link?

Not when you consider total smart watches sold for all vendors.

The article is talking smart watch sales, not how many people who own iPhones didn't buy an Apple smart watch.

Buying a smart phone is one thing, a smart watch another.
They each have different uses therefore attract different clientle.
The two don't have to closely correlate.
That is an imposition posed by the personal opinion.

The Watch REQUIRES the iPhone. Presumably someone who uses an iPhone will consider the Watch over any other smartwatch because it is closely integrated in a way in which no other smartwatch is.

The Watch is an exclusive companion to the iPhone. Doesn't matter what a customers habits are with respect to watches, it's commonly reported that people who didn't previously wear a watch, bought an Watch, as a companion to their iPhone.

The Watch is compatible with the iPhone 5, 5c, 5s, 6, 6 Plus, 6s & 6s Plus. There have been a number of studies reported on this and other sites stating that only the slimmest percentages of active iPhones are 4s or older.

Apple's sales expectations are not based purely on attracting smart watch customers, but all watch customers (existing and potential) as evidenced by their massive marketing push into fashion, as well as fitness band customers by similar marketing efforts. Even if one assumes that Apple did not imagine they would even capture 50% of the available iPhone user base as Watch customers, they are massively underperforming the very targeted, and only customer base that can use the Watch. In fact you can't compare the Watch to other smart watches, because it can't be used with anything but the iPhone, and it can't be used without one. So it's clear who the target market for the Watch was, and therefore, relatively easy to understand what the sales expectations were likely to have been relative to.
 
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Another ridiculous comparison.
How many of the ~1,200,000,000 are smart watches.
lol, what? thats not how boards see numbers for projections. What is a smartwatch? is my suunto w over 50 features and digital display considered a smartwatch? It has more features like altimeters and other things that the apple watch doesn't yet its just categorized as a watch. The comparison is not ridiculous, it shows how niche the 'smartwatch' market as you like to call it is in a big industry and how low its impact on the bigger picture.
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So I guess Android Wear's even lower 6 million makes it an even BIGGER flop...

Or Tizen at 3 million...
yes if you can define flop as low volume since there is no penetration for a 'smartwatch' as its made today from anyone. Just look in the streets and see how many have 'smartwatches' of 2015
 
How about the potential market for the iPhone?

There are about 400 million active iPhones worldwide, the majority of which are compatible with the Watch. Apple has in one year sold to less than ~4% of that well defined, exclusive market (and the only potential customers who can currently use the Watch). That's pretty slim.

Whoa... 400 million? That number can't be right.

Apple sold 230 million iPhones just last year.

2015: 230 million
2014: 170 million
2013: 150 million
2012: 125 million

iPhones last a long time... and get handed down and remain in service. So it wouldn't be unusual for a large portion of iPhones sold in the last 3 or 4 years to still be active today.

I'd say there are at least 600 million active iPhones right now... with most of them iPhone 5 and above compatible with Apple Watch.

That actually makes Apple Watch adoption worse... so you're exactly right to that point. :D

But it's the same slim percentage for all other smartwatch makers too.

Android Wear requires Android 4.3 or above... which is installed on 75% of all Android devices... which would be over a billion Android phones out in the world right now. And some Android Wear watches are compatible with iPhones too! Yet Android Wear sells less than half of what the Apple Watch sells... despite being compatible with far more active devices.

Pebble Watches are the most compatible of all since they work with Android phones and iPhones. That's a HUGE addressable market. Yet they're only 7% of the smartwatch market.

So before you say Apple Watch is doing poorly... take a look around ;)
 
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Whoa... 400 million? That number can't be right.

Apple sold 230 million iPhones just last year.

2015: 230 million
2014: 170 million
2013: 150 million
2012: 125 million

iPhones last a long time... and get handed down and remain in service. So it wouldn't be unusual for a large portion of iPhones sold in the last 3 or 4 years to still be active today.

I'd say there are at least 600 million active iPhones right now... with most of them iPhone 5 and above compatible with Apple Watch.

That actually makes Apple Watch adoption worse... so you're exactly right to that point. :D

But it's the same slim percentage for all other smartwatch makers too.

Android Wear requires Android 4.3 or above... which is installed on 75% of all Android devices... which would be over a billion Android phones out in the world right now. And some Android Wear watches are compatible with iPhones too! Yet Android Wear sells less than half of what the Apple Watch sells... despite being compatible with far more active devices.

Pebble Watches are the most compatible of all since they work with Android phones and iPhones. That's a HUGE addressable market. Yet they're only 7% of the smartwatch market.

So before you say Apple Watch is doing poorly... take a look around ;)

I'm not saying the Watch is doing poorly, at least in terms of the smartwatch market. It's obviously doing every well.

I'm just saying it's doing poorly compared to its potential target market.

And unlike the droid smartwatches, and fitness bands, all those companies are selling are products for customers interested in those types of products ... until Apple came along.

Apple is marketing far beyond the smartwatch customer, as evidenced by their advertising campaigns. They are marketing to smartwatch, watch, fashion accessory, and non-watch customers. Indeed, they are marketing to everyone who owns an iPhone, regardless of their predilection for wrist wear -- they are currently marketing an indispensable, fashionable extension of their iPhone. And that's the benchmark I assign for the product.
 
It IS a flop in Apple standards, regarding Apples undenibale ambitions this being the next big thing after the iPod, iPhone and iPad. The curse of an unparalleled success story in the last 15 years.
I don't know, Apple has made an incredible amount of $ that is unparalleled in history, so did they internally expect this little watch to make them a ton of income? I doubt it, it's probably immaterial to them but a market they want to be involved in. We're soon probably to have Apple cars and Apple running our households along with a lot more. I appreciate that for only $399 I get a device that cost probably over $100 million to develop. It's a nice device that adds to my quality of life. If the watch is being subsidized by iPhone profits, I think Apple is fine with that and would consider the watch a success in this small market segment.
 
The Watch REQUIRES the iPhone. Presumably someone who uses an iPhone will consider the Watch over any other smartwatch because it is closely integrated in a way in which no other smartwatch is.
First mistake. Presumption. A presumption is not a fact.
Doesn't matter what a customers habits are with respect to watches,
Of course it matters. People who don't like to wear watches will not buy watches.
it's commonly reported that people who didn't previously wear a watch, bought an Watch, as a companion to their iPhone.
Unprovable.
The Watch is compatible with the iPhone 5, 5c, 5s, 6, 6 Plus, 6s & 6s Plus. There have been a number of studies reported on this and other sites stating that only the slimmest percentages of active iPhones are 4s or older.
OK
Apple's sales expectations are not based purely on attracting smart watch customers, but all watch customers (existing and potential) as evidenced by their massive marketing push into fashion, as well as fitness band customers by similar marketing efforts.
This is a supposition. Suppositions are not facts.
Even if one assumes that Apple did not imagine they would even capture 50% of the available iPhone user base as Watch customers, they are massively underperforming the very targeted,
That's an opinion. You would need to know what Apples target goal was to know if they are "massively underperforming."
In fact you can't compare the Watch to other smart watches, because it can't be used with anything but the iPhone, and it can't be used without one.
Now your are defining for the world what constitutes a smart watch?
snip.. and therefore, relatively easy to understand what the sales expectations were likely to have been relative to.
Nope. That is an assumption on your part. Assumptions are not facts.
 
First mistake. Presumption. A presumption is not a fact.
Of course it matters. People who don't like to wear watches will not buy watches.

Unprovable.

OK

This is a supposition. Suppositions are not facts.

That's an opinion. You would need to know what Apples target goal was to know if they are "massively underperforming."

Now your are defining for the world what constitutes a smart watch?

Nope. That is an assumption on your part. Assumptions are not facts.

I know people who didn't wear a watch that bought the Apple Watch.
I use an Android phone so while the Apple Watch is interesting, I won't be even considering buying one.
I'm not switching phones for a watch.

The other thing, they left out the Microsoft Band 2. It's somewhere in between a watch and fitness band.
I know a couple of people that have iPhones and opted for the Band 2 because the number of sensors is better and it's got GPS so they can track their bike rides without having the phone.

If Apple wants to crush the market they will make the watch compatible with Android.
The first iPod was Apple only and they realized that Windows users were not going to switch to get a media player.
They then did iTunes for Windows. Funny thing, they sold more iPods and got users to switch.
Same thing might happen if they make the Apple Watch compatible with Android.

I'm a watch person so wearing a single device all the time doesn't appeal to me.
I have more than 30 watches.
I own one smart watch, a Moto 360.
Might buy a Band 2 for the continuous heart rate and GPS.
 
And yet every time I read a story about the watch, people call it a flop and say Tim should either resign for it or discontinue the product. Amazing. :rolleyes:
And yet, I see Apple watches almost every time I leave the house. Also notice it being worn by people all the time when I watch tv
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If Apple wants to crush the market they will make the watch compatible with Android.
The first iPod was Apple only and they realized that Windows users were not going to switch to get a media player.
They then did iTunes for Windows. Funny thing, they sold more iPods and got users to switch.
Same thing might happen if they make the Apple Watch compatible with Android.

I'm a watch person so wearing a single device all the time doesn't appeal to me.
I have more than 30 watches.
I own one smart watch, a Moto 360.
Might buy a Band 2 for the continuous heart rate and GPS.

I can completely get behind this. As great of an incentive as Apple might think the watch is for people to buy the iPhone just to get it, it would be even better for them and their brand if they made it compatible for android. Make it compatible for android: android users buy Apple Watch and like it and the halo effect will come in full swing. A lot might decide they like Apple products just from having an Apple Watch and go on to buy other things like an iPhone or a Mac or Apple TV.
 
There is a crazy level of uneality in what people


Have you ever written software, especially system software? Do you have any idea how difficult it is, especially in a resource constrained environment?
You think something like "take audio notes" is a trivial operation, but think it through. The watch's primary constraint right now is that it must retain power for a day (even under heavy use conditions, like a lot of exercise tracking) otherwise people will be furious. Part of hitting that power goal is that pretty much everything on the watch apart from sensors and some radio shuts down as soon as the screen goes dark --- pretty much always.

This is obviously not ideal --- it means, for example, that right now an app can perform no background processing of any sort. AND it means that, as the OS is currently constructed, the low-level facilities (inside the scheduler and the power management code) simply aren't there to support additional various special cases where it would make sense for (in this case) screen goes black, radios go off, but what stays alive? Mic obviously, speaker no?, CPU? (or can you do everything necessary in the audio part of the SoC?) You see the point?

Look at what has happened (and continues to happen) with iPhone iOS. Every year Apple considers a few new sensible use cases and implements the code to allow them to happen while ALSO not impacting the UI experience. First IOS no apps. Then apps but no background activity. Then very restricted background activity. Then letting up various constraints on background activity. We're at WatchOS 2. Things will be very different by the time we hit WatchOS 9 --- but getting there takes time, not because Apple hates you, but because doing things well is HARD.

That's the Apple way. If you want the alternative experience (things get added half-assed, sure they're available but your device may or may not run hot, lose power rapidly, the service occasionally crashes, etc) that's available in Android. Plenty of people want that control --- good for them --- but to claim that Apple will better serve its existing customers by copying Android is just idiotic.

You didn't need to get into all that. I'm aware that background activity drains battery significantly, and that the apple watch can't handle it atm. I am not suggesting for "Hey Siri" always on functionality. Simply the ability to have Siri do something, when it already partially does. "Hey Siri, send a text message to Brian saying _____" and "Hey Siri, create a note that says _____" should come hand and hand, not be spread out over time.

I appreciate the features being added in over time, but if they really cared they could make their additions more expansive, and you know it.

Call it an effective way of ensuring easy updates for future iterations of WatchOS, or call it limited programming resources, a new product category, quality code assurance - but whatever it is, it annoys me.
 
I think the Apple Watch is the first smart watch that has just enough of all the bits you need to make a good smart watch. It has a cool look, quite customisable with good and growing software support.

When I look at the other smart watches I see only one of these characteristics. They either look nice and don't do much (Android Watches) or they have a nice user interface, good software but no long term developer support (Tizen Samsung watch) or they have a long battery life but don't look very appealing (Pebble Time).

And of course there are fitness bands which are trying to come at the wearable from a different angle and most of those either don't look nice or don't do much.

Now having said that, I don't think the current Apple Watch (which I own by the way) is ready for the mainstream. I think it's still very much an early adopters device. It needs to be faster and it needs to be more consistent in performing the small number of tasks it has been designed for.

I think perhaps by the 3rd iteration it'll be something I could recommend to other people. Right now I say to people who ask, only get it if you're going to use the fitness stuff because beyond that it doesn't do much well and you'll find yourself reaching for your iPhone to use Siri and its other features just due to how slow and inconsistent the watch is right now, one example of that is even now notifications are still inconsistent on mine. Restores, reboots etc nothing fixes it. Sometimes you'll get notifications consistently for a few days on the Watch and other times they'll go 50/50 to the iPhone so it's not really bug free yet either in my usage and I have owned two so far.

Overall I do like mine a lot, I'm a runner and the fitness stuff is great and the other features are enjoyable to use when they work consistently, I'm sure Watch OS 2.2 and Watch OS 3 will further refine the experience, there is no doubt in my mind that it will become the de-facto standard by which other smart watches are judged if it hasn't already.

Actually, what the Apple Watch really needs to be is less expensive.
 
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I can completely get behind this. As great of an incentive as Apple might think the watch is for people to buy the iPhone just to get it, it would be even better for them and their brand if they made it compatible for android. Make it compatible for android: android users buy Apple Watch and like it and the halo effect will come in full swing. A lot might decide they like Apple products just from having an Apple Watch and go on to buy other things like an iPhone or a Mac or Apple TV.

Probably a smart decision, but Apple sees no reason to do it.
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Actually, what the Apple Watch really needs to be is less expensive.

Marked up for being more of a luxury device, but I agree.
 
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I know people who didn't wear a watch that bought the Apple Watch.
I use an Android phone so while the Apple Watch is interesting, I won't be even considering buying one.
I'm not switching phones for a watch.

....

I'm a watch person so wearing a single device all the time doesn't appeal to me.
I have more than 30 watches.
I own one smart watch, a Moto 360.
Might buy a Band 2 for the continuous heart rate and GPS.
Not clear why you are quoting post 114 and providing an auto biography of your personal life/habits.
A thing of note wrong with your commnt is you use "I" too many times.
I only care about "me". ;)
The other thing, they left out the Microsoft Band 2. It's somewhere in between a watch and fitness band.
I know a couple of people that have iPhones and opted for the Band 2 because the number of sensors is better and it's got GPS so they can track their bike rides without having the phone.

If Apple wants to crush the market they will make the watch compatible with Android.
The first iPod was Apple only and they realized that Windows users were not going to switch to get a media player.
They then did iTunes for Windows. Funny thing, they sold more iPods and got users to switch.
Same thing might happen if they make the Apple Watch compatible with Android.
Still has nothing to do with post 114.
 
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I think some people have unrealistic expectations and expect sales to immediately reach iPhone levels.

I agree. I bought mine a few weeks after they went on sale and I am happy with it but I would not call it a "must have" device (yet). The 2nd generation OS was a big improvement with native apps rather than basically running them off my phone and I am looking forward to future enhancements. This is definitely a market that is still evolving but Apple is well positioned to make the most of it.
 
Not to mention there are quite a few members on here who like to wear their AW to bed, and make do with the current battery by charging it while getting ready in the am and again in the evening right before bedtime. Even if Apple manages the double the battery life, they'd still charge their AWs during those two time slots.

I put mine on the charger about an hour before I go to bed. It's fully charged when I put it on before I go to sleep. It doesn't need charging again until the next night.
 
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