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You do realize, so real watch guys actually handled the watches, all of them, and said they look very nice and have terrific build, fit and finish. Some people may not like the design, but I think some of the high end watches you talk about spell "need for attention" (I find some of them, not all of them, very very ugly in the rococco way of uglyness) much more than an Apple watch at any price.

Let me clarify: What I'm saying is that I think Apple knows they have a market for the $4k gold Apple Watch and they know who's in that market. I'm just a little amused by guys who think somehow that Rolex is the same market.



Most collectable aren't investment, at most they don't lose value long term with inflation. Just a few select models, years become iconic and have their value increase more.

Of course, high end watches don't lose much with time because new ones are essentially like old ones in most ways, even functionality. That's not the case with electronics obviously.

So no it will not keep its value like other high end watches if your not able to upgrade its electronics, but the I don't expect the more expensive one it to lose more than 40% of its value in 10 years if its kept in good condition.

Again, a watch is not an investment. You don't buy a $10k wristwatch to make money... You buy it so you can say you bought a $10k wristwatch. It's far too speculative/finicky of a market to call it an investment... and as appreciable return goes, it's HORRIBLE.... you'd make more money faster sitting on ten year treasuries, i.e. the Risk Free Rate, a guaranteed fixed return.

I didn't buy my Rolex with the idea that I'd make money, I bought 6000 shares of Apple stock in 2000 with the idea of making money....
 
I hope no one is dumb enough to buy a first generation apple watch for 4k...but I know someone will
 
I think you are totally wrong.

There are a lot of very smart people at Apple, and I don't think they would have put this much time and effort into creating a product that no one will buy.

If you recall everyone mocked Steve Jobs when he announced the iPad. Who would want one of those they asked?

Also, if there is one thing obvious about Apple, it's that people ARE willing to pay extra for their products. They have proved this over and over.

Finally, even nicer low end watches cost more than $349. This one promises to have a computer, a screen, and the ability to tell time more accurately than any Rolex, Patek Philippe, Omega, or Piaget ever made.

For me, a frequent business traveller, I would be quite pleased to have a super accurate watch that can automatically flip time zones wherever I happen to land.


Oh, they will make money on it, no doubt. It will not become a main stream product. Everyone needs a phone, even a tablet....I haven't seen anyone wearing a watch in weeks.
 
$4k - what a joke, would rather buy a Rolex which has a higher resale value and looks a lot better. $4k watch is outdated in 2-3 years, then it's useless.
 
$4k - what a joke, would rather buy a Rolex which has a higher resale value and looks a lot better. $4k watch is outdated in 2-3 years, then it's useless.

a) Good luck finding a new Rolex for $4k (steel doesn't count, unless you compare to the $350 Apple Watch)

b) saying "I'd like to buy a Rolex instead of a smartwatch" is like saying "I'd rather buy a refrigerator than a motorcycle".

It's not a worthwhile comparison, at all.... different products with very different purposes.
 
Ouch as some fashion or wealth statement perhaps but I thin seeing prices of other smartwatches thats very high.

Seems they added a double apple tax , as a shareholder :)
 
Only Apple could pull something off so arrogant as to offer a $5000 piece of technology like a watch. Think of your iPhone that you keep for 1-2 years. How many of us will buy a watch to keep it for 1-2 years (@$5k).

No chance!
 
I did like the idea of the :apple:Watch in its 2nd or 3rd generation (when the battery lasts longer and the watch doesn't constantly require an iPhone anymore) and I loved the look of the gold, as I personally never wear silver jewellery. It just doesn't look good on my complexion.

However, I did not realize the watch was going to be made of solid gold ... that sounds erm... insane for a product that's bound to become obsolete. Why not offering a gold plated version for people, who just don't like the silver? I think a gold plated version in the same price range as the stainless steel one would have attracted LOTS of middle-class, fashion-oriented buyers on top of the tech enthusiasts and sports people.

But I suppose a few high-end buyers still mean more buck in the end than lots of middle-class buyers.
 
$4k - what a joke, would rather buy a Rolex which has a higher resale value and looks a lot better. $4k watch is outdated in 2-3 years, then it's useless.

Right... They will force obsolescence like they do every other product of theirs....
 
Just off the top of my head....

My GMT Master II, made of 904L steel and 18K gold, with a synthetic sapphire crystal, has the 16713 self-winding mechanical movement registered to Montres Rolex S.A. It has roughly 200 moving parts and 31 jewels in its movement.

It is certified by the Controle Officiel Suisse des Chronometres (COSC) as a Superlative Chronometer. This means that the movement is accurate to within -4/+6 seconds per day accuracy.

This particular model has been timed by Certified Rolex Technicians using a Witschi Watch Expert watch timer to within +/- 1-2 seconds per day, rather accurate for a mechanical timepiece yet completely inferior to every "cheap circuitboard" out there that contains millions of electronic parts in a space smaller than a thumbnail.

It was last serviced in 2007, requiring replacement of the mainspring and the escape wheel. Less expensive movements use metals other than brass but brass is used in mechanical watches because it can't be magnetized. The downside to this is that the parts are delicate.

As mechanical wristwatches go, it is nowhere near the level of complexity of the Patek Philippe Grande Complication which has over 24 complications and generally retails around three quarters of a million dollars. It is also bulky when compared to the Concord Delirium IV, the thinnest wristwatch ever made at 1.98mm.

It's also not as sturdy as the 11671 movement, which now features a ceramic bezel and solid center links in the Oyster Bracelet.

As far as Rolex's exploits undersea, I am well aware that in 1960 Jacques Piccard had a specially designed Rolex attached to his bathyscaphe Trieste when he descended the Challenger Deep to a record depth of 10,911 meters.

I'm well versed in the history of Rolex since one of my market research presentations 20+ years ago in college was on Rolex S.A. The founder of Rolex (an entirely made up name that is said to have come from a rearrangement of letters in the phrase "horlogerie d'exquise"), Hans Wilsdorf, started his career as a train engineer who bought and sold watches for train conductors.... eventually he founded the company that would make the first reasonably sized timepiece to wear on a wrist, and the first waterproof watch, the oyster.

Did you know, by the way, that Rolex is owned by a non-profit, the Hans Wilsdorf Trust, that their net proceeds after expenses help fund scholarships and that as part of the company charter, Rolex can never be bought or sold away from the ownership of the Wilsdorf Trust?

Cheers.
You have just explained the reason I own a Rolex. As an engineer, I appreciate mechanical density, the exact same reason I own a 993 TT. The complexity and finesse of a complicated movement, packed in a small case, which happens to be just about bulletproof cannot be duplicated by electronics.
I did not purchase my Submariner as an investment or to make a profit. I purchased it to wear it year round. In the ocean, the desert, down range in a combat zone, in the boardroom, all the time. What is nice is that this paperweight as you call it still meets COSC standards and just happens to be worth more today than when I purchased it 10 years ago..
 
$5,000 Dollars? I Rather buy a Rolex. I can feel confident my Rolex will hold value in say the next 5-10 years,

Even though I'm a big Apple Watch fan, I have to agree with this. Why would someone spend +$3,635 extra on a fashion statement that's attached to a technology that will be superseded in a year?
This is basically saying "I'm so rich, I choose to throw money away." Like lighting cigars with $100 bills. In which case, you deserve to be despised by the rest of us.

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A solid gold Rolex for $5000?

A solid gold watch would be dysfunctional. Sort of like a solid chocolate watch. :D
 
a) Good luck finding a new Rolex for $4k (steel doesn't count, unless you compare to the $350 Apple Watch)

b) saying "I'd like to buy a Rolex instead of a smartwatch" is like saying "I'd rather buy a refrigerator than a motorcycle".

It's not a worthwhile comparison, at all.... different products with very different purposes.

There are tons of Rolex's for $4k - they don't all start at $10k+.

When I make that type of investment I make sure there is a real advantage to having it. A $4k iWatch won't do much for me, especially as each new iOS rolls out and then it's obsolete and non-functional unless you run that iOS on your iPhone, which as each year shows is incredibly difficult if not impossible.

I don't know how a watch compared to a watch isn't a worthwhile comparison. Maybe you don't know what a watch is yet, but eventually you'll find out.
 
Stainless price sounds right. Still don't see the rationale behind gold, as typically gold watches are heirloom type pieces, and an Apple watch will be obsolete very quickly. But i imagine they don't expect it to be a big seller. Maybe just an aspirational flagship.

Maybe you can use the same gold band when you upgrade to a new Apple watch in the future?
 
a) Good luck finding a new Rolex for $4k (steel doesn't count, unless you compare to the $350 Apple Watch)

b) saying "I'd like to buy a Rolex instead of a smartwatch" is like saying "I'd rather buy a refrigerator than a motorcycle".

It's not a worthwhile comparison, at all.... different products with very different purposes.

a) Why doesn't it count if it's not gold? If it's got a market at $4000 that's what it's worth, doesn't matter what metal they choose to make it out of. It's a $4000 piece of jewellery that will still be valuable in 20 years. Unlike the iToy watch accessory which will only be worth it's gold melt value in 3 years.

b) I'd love to make a comment, but I can't even comprehend the twisted mind that would come up with than analogy or what you're even trying to say. The Gold iToy watch is marketed as jewellery on your wrist. So is the rolex. This is what apple said too, remember Jony telling Switzerland they were in a lot of trouble. It was a few days before 10 million Swiss people all laughed at Apple at once once the iToy watch was released.
 
Hi guys,

I've been reading through this posts for the last few hours, and I feel like it's time for me to post something. $349 and $500 are actually not bad price points considering the quality of Apples products. Like many people here have said, there are a lot of watches that are in that same price range, and only tell time. Also, automatic watches can run for 24-48 hours on most of the automatic watches. So if you have more then one automatic watch, and you do not have a winder, they will stop. Just like the Apple watch, it's battery life will last around a day, so you charge it again, which you will do whenever you have it off.

People keep saying the Apple Watch is dead on arrival, but I am 100% sure this will be a massive hit. Why? Because a lot of people still do wear watches, and they own more than one watch, and will most probably add an Apple watch to their collection. I personally own quite a bit of watches, from the plastic Swatch watches, all the way to my Rolex DateJust 2. I have 5 automatic watches, and the rest are quartz. I will definitely be buying the SS Apple Watch when it comes out, and probably all the Apple Watches after that, or every other Apple watch (year on year off). Why would I do that? Because I love watches, and I collect watches. A lot of people have this same hobby that I do, and like I said, the price point is really not bad when you compare it to other watches.

Also keep in mind that the OS will probably be really good, and blow Android Wear out of the water. I bought a Moto 360, and although it looks great, the software just does not work as well as it should. And we all know the Apple Watch App store will probably be really good, considering how well Apple maintain the iPhone App store. So $500 for quite a good looking watch, a great app store, around a day of battery (just like an automatic watch), is really not as bad as everyone is making it seem.

Another thing is that people keep saying, whats the point of having the Apple Watch when you can take out your phone and see the notifications or do whatever. When I am at work, I do not use my phone much, especially when I am jumping from one meeting to the other. However, when I am wearing the Apple Watch, I can keep track of all my calendar appointments, whatever emails I have, and do whatever else I need to do with just the watch.

My last point is about the Apple Watch in gold. That version of the watch is not made for the average person. As much as I think it looks quite nice, I personally would think the SS is good enough for me. The gold Apple Watch will definitely be bought by the people who don't just buy a Rolex, it will be bought by the people who own several Patek Philippes, Audemars Piguets, and even Richard Mille watches (these brands watches are much more expensive then the ones provided by Rolex). the people who own these watches, and have a bunch of them, are a lot! To them, 4 grand is chump change, and they will most probably pick it up. And when they do, that is when you know Apple has succeeded by making a gold version. People will buy it, and people will buy the SS, and the Aluminum.
 
I did not purchase my Submariner as an investment or to make a profit. I purchased it to wear it year round. In the ocean, the desert, down range in a combat zone, in the boardroom, all the time. What is nice is that this paperweight as you call it still meets COSC standards and just happens to be worth more today than when I purchased it 10 years ago..

Then you understood 99 percent of my point.

The other 1%... the "paperweight" comment... was me being tongue in cheek.

One can admire the engineering in a mechanical timepiece and still be completely realistic about the fact that what is being argued here is not the engineering of a smartwatch versus a mechanical watch, but the fact that some people think that paying $10,000 for one type of engineering marvel is more "sensible" than paying $4000 for another... just because one has a little crown logo and makes us all go "ooh ahh!"

If it's the engineering alone, a purist would look at every conceivable, efficiently built movement that wasn't retailed for thousands of dollars... mechanical watches are not terribly complicated (see what I did there?)

I am amused by the tendency of most debates now in American culture in particular to degenerate into a sort of competition of people who wear their equally questionable tastes on their sleeve and will stop at nothing to defend their opinions to the hilt....

That's not a discussion. That's a pissing match. Yeah yeah, I wear my Rolex all the time too, everybody. I wear it to the bathroom, when I'm spanking it to porn. I wear it when I drive up to a Michelin-starred restaurant in jeans, a crappy t-shirt and my ASICS... I'd wear it to the moon but you know what, screw Richard Branson and his exploding spacecraft....

We're just dabbling in varying degrees of self-masturbatory absurdity now.
 
Oh, they will make money on it, no doubt. It will not become a main stream product. Everyone needs a phone, even a tablet....I haven't seen anyone wearing a watch in weeks.

And prior to Steve Jobs revealing the iPad for the first time, how many people did you see using a tablet?

Time will tell who is right on this. You have to remember that this watch also fills and exceeds the roll of the Fitbit, Nike Fuelband and others.

Fitbit has sold millions, and is getting ready to launch a more comprehensive product for $250.

Nike has sold a couple of million or so of their products.

People are buying these things. Weight loss, health, fitness, are all multi billion dollar industries.

This isn't about whether Apple can sell a watch, it's whether the various health functions can get people excited.
 
Only "screwed" if you wiped in out the day before through use. It could probably last the next day even if it starts off at 25% with light use.

From Apple's own description, there will be a healthy secondary market for the bands and you have a choice of bands when you buy the watch. They are easily swappable and I'd expect people to own several.

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Computers cost a lot back then, an IBM PC AT and peripherals cost $4000 ($8000 now) in 1987 and that was certainly not a highest level computer. And yes, normal people bought them. A commodore 64 plugged to their monitor and disquette drive cost $1200 in 1983 ($3000 nowadays) and people bought a boatload of them. That's why I laugh when people tell me a $350 dollars computer on your wrist or a $700 super computer in your bag :) is "expensive"... So funny!

For the price of my C64 setup I could buy now, an Ipad, an Iphone, and Apple TV, an Apple Watch all maxed out in memory.

ah yes, but you see - i didn't have to go to any "secondary retailer" - everything came with the watch. i could even have it switched to leather on the spot.

i agree with the rest of your post, its just that in its current state, it doesn't really convince me to use it instead of my "traditional" watch. yes, its a breakthrough and i can appreciate that and i also understand "early adopters", but for me, its not "there" yet.
 
Can we all just agree that gold isn't the most flattering color? ;)

I think it is down to cultural taste and fashion.

Back when my parents got married everyone got a gold ring.

Yet I can't remember anyone I know getting married in the last decade and choosing a yellow gold ring. White gold or platinum are in vogue.

However, in other countries yellow gold is still a big thing, I believe especially so in Asia.
 
a) Why doesn't it count if it's not gold? If it's got a market at $4000 that's what it's worth, doesn't matter what metal they choose to make it out of. It's a $4000 piece of jewellery that will still be valuable in 20 years. Unlike the iToy watch accessory which will only be worth it's gold melt value in 3 years.

Because the reason for the cost of the one model is the gold. The steel model is $350. Find me a $350 Rolex, new...

b) I'd love to make a comment, but I can't even comprehend the twisted mind that would come up with than analogy or what you're even trying to say. The Gold iToy watch is marketed as jewellery on your wrist. So is the rolex. This is what apple said too, remember Jony telling Switzerland they were in a lot of trouble. It was a few days before 10 million Swiss people all laughed at Apple at once once the iToy watch was released.

It's all fun and games until you realize that Apple has higher sales per square foot of retail space than Tiffany & Co., its next nearest competitor...

My second point, however, is that if you really wanted to compare the Apple Watch to something, why are you comparing it to one of the least complex, cheapest Swiss luxury brands out there?

I mean, then why stop there? I think it's because people don't know enough about Swiss brands outside of Rolex and that there's the phenomenon of the $30,000 Millionaire we have to thank for perpetuating the narrow grasp of Swiss brands.

If you wanted to position your argument one way, you could say it's WAY more expensive than say, a Raymond Weil... also swiss, also has 18k solid gold. Costs much less than a Rolex. You could go in the other direction and compare it to a $20,000 Vacheron + Constantin that has an 18K case but leather strap and does absolutely nothing but tell time...

Yes, I can buy a steel watch that does nothing but tell time for $3750 .... How is that the most relevant comparable to a smartwatch?

That's like asking an appraiser to compare your house to every house on the market, rather than the ones that are comparable in size, neighborhood dynamics/amenities, etc.

From a financial or even logical perspective it's a patently absurd comparison. If what you want is a gold watch, Rolex will set you back around $30k. If what you want is a gold smartwatch... what other gold smartwatch is out there to compare it to?

But hey who cares about apples to apples... Pick whatever nonsensical comparison suits your presupposition I guess.

It's not as if those of us who can afford Rolexes are sitting here going, "Hmm, do I buy the Ferrari or the Volkswagen.... That Volkswagen has four wheels and a nice stereo, too, but it's a tenth the price!" People don't buy Rolexes or Ferraris or Gulfstream jets because they're investments or because they're "a better value" than an Apple ANYTHING.

People buy Rolexes because (surprise) they want other people to know they bought a Rolex. An Apple at ANY price does not fulfill that mission... Apple knows this, which is why they're not going to price it higher than $5k where you're in the realm of absurdly expensive watches people buy primarily so they can say that they can buy them.
 
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I will definitely be buying the SS Apple Watch when it comes out, and probably all the Apple Watches after that, or every other Apple watch (year on year off). Why would I do that? Because I love watches, and I collect watches. A lot of people have this same hobby that I do, and like I said, the price point is really not bad when you compare it to other watches.

We'll have to wait for the release to find out, but if everything is integrated into the single chip then I don't see why the ceramic back can't be removed and upgraded with newer internals at a lower price point. Samsung and the like are marketing their smartwatches as computers. Apple is marketing this as a fashion accessory that happens to have more functionality. They will be upgrading the internals and adding more sensors, as well as making it thinner and stuff (It needs to be fat first before they can thin it out) but I could imagine there being upgrades that could be performed in an Apple Store and/or jeweler shop.
 
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