Apple Watch Series 3 LTE Radiation

[sinbart]

Radio waves and microwaves (what our devices use to communicate) are what’s called non-ionizing radiation. What that means is that they don’t interact with molecules in the body to produce ions (which can ultimately damage DNA).

So you're saying the NTP study is wrong, since the conclusion of this study is just not possible ?
Since as far as I understand, they've used "non-ionizing radiation".

• For the studies, rats and mice were exposed to frequencies and modulations currently used in cellular communications in the United States. The rodents were exposed for 10-minute on, 10-minute off increments, totaling just over 9 hours a day from before birth through 2 years of age.
• NTP found low incidences of tumors in the brains and hearts of male rats, but not in female rats. Studies in mice are continuing.

https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/


Please let's keep responses like "but the sun's radiation is so much worse" aside for a second. Even if one thing is wose than the other, it doesn't make it good. AFAIK the question was about mobile RF devices - the Apple Watch in particular which you'll wear 18h or more directly on your skin.

BR

 

[Wolfpup]

Is anyone concerned about LTE on an Apple Watch? From what I understand Bluetooth has about 1/1000 the radiation level of LTE, so having that kind of powerful signal strapped on your skin seems worrisome.

I've been googling to see if I can get some hard info on this, but you know how it is, sensational studies with flawed methodologies and not enough in the way of peer reviewed research to shed enough light on this. I'd like to upgrade but I'd likely go with the bluetooth only model for peace of mind.

I think it's a great question... I mean most of the time it won't be broadcasting a ton, but still, it would be like having your phone constantly strapped to you.

 

[edhchoe]

If Samsung and Apple are paying people off to keep quiet about hazards of cellphones, i would not be surprised.

 

[porkrind]

Again, in the only study of its kind (no other study was as large or as carefully conducted), rats exposed to similar levels of RF radiation we would expect from long term electronic use were significantly more likely to develop heart and brain cancers. Due to the relative recency of cell phone availability, there is NO long term exposure research for exposure periods of 15 years+ in humans. At the very least, there is reason to be cautious.

The results of that study are not as cut and dried as you present them to be. There’s a lot of strange info in the data that is not yet explained...

• Why did the rats exposed to the radiation live longer than the control rats despite the elevated incidence of tumors?
• Why did the female rats not show an increase in cancer rates?
• Why did the control group develop no tumors of certain type even though some would be expected?

All those plus the fact that the rats recieved a higher dose of radiation than any human would expect to receive make me think that while there's definitely a potential connection that needs more study, the immediate conclusion that everything we know about non-ionizing radiation is wrong is not supported by what we know now.

Here's a potential analysis of the open concerns about this study...

http://www.businessinsider.com/cell-phone-cancer-study-results-2016-5

 

[zerolight]

The one point everyone is missing on this thread. Even Mercola states that the problem with your phone is really only a problem whilst you make a call. At that point it generates an order of magnitude more potentially harmful energy than it does when not making a call. He recommends holding the phone at arms length on speaker phone as a mitigation.

So even if you buy into the cell phone being a danger. It's only a danger when making a call and is mitigated at arms length. The watch is always at arms length. It's only a problem on the rare occasion you make a call, not 18h per day in standby. It's likely not an issue. And as suggested before, if you are concerned and have no need for LTE on a given day just turn off the antenna. I will only ever need it when I cycle.

 

[sirozha]

LTE transmissions are carried in the microwave range of frequencies.

Microwaves are not ionising radiation.

Low energy non-ionising radiation passes through the body without being absorbed. As far as it’s concerned, we’re not even there.

Despite what some crackpots or people peddling 21st century snake oil would like you to believe, LTE transmissions pose no health risk whatsoever.

Gamma rays, x-rays, ultraviolet light, alpha and beta emissions, and neutron flux are all very bad for you (some far more so than others). Microwave radiation doesn’t do anything to you unless you’re standing right in front of an activated high-power antenna rig and letting it cook you.

Source: I’m a former health physics technician and radiation worker heavily trained in the particulars of radiation and its effects on the human body.

Wow. Technician. Community college? Big authority in electromagnetism.
[doublepost=1506269712][/doublepost]

Is anyone concerned about LTE on an Apple Watch? From what I understand Bluetooth has about 1/1000 the radiation level of LTE, so having that kind of powerful signal strapped on your skin seems worrisome.

I've been googling to see if I can get some hard info on this, but you know how it is, sensational studies with flawed methodologies and not enough in the way of peer reviewed research to shed enough light on this. I'd like to upgrade but I'd likely go with the bluetooth only model for peace of mind.

The LTE feature doesn’t activate unless your watch is away from the phone and it can’t join a Wi-Fi network. In a case like that, the whole point of having an LTE Watch is that you can receive and make calls, so you must have LTE on. If you don’t ever want LTE on, then buy the watch without it. Having LTE on your wrist is less dangerous than having it next to you brain - if LTE is harmful, which at this point is a big question mark.

 

[DblHelix]

Is anyone concerned about LTE on an Apple Watch? From what I understand Bluetooth has about 1/1000 the radiation level of LTE, so having that kind of powerful signal strapped on your skin seems worrisome.

I've been googling to see if I can get some hard info on this, but you know how it is, sensational studies with flawed methodologies and not enough in the way of peer reviewed research to shed enough light on this. I'd like to upgrade but I'd likely go with the bluetooth only model for peace of mind.

Tinfoil hat brigade commence

 

[Bryan Bowler]

I believe what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger! Our bodies are being bombarded with all kinds of dangerous things, like every breath you take is causing damage, oxygen is a free radical that causes damage. “everything” you eat turns to sugar, blood sugar levels even low ones cause damage to the delicate blood vessels and your organs.

I’m not saying it’s completely harmless, it does cause “changes” to cells, but so does The Sun, so does a lot of things, changes are not always bad, but sometimes it’s actually good...just sometimes repair goes haywire.

I don’t know, I just don’t worry about things anymore, worry will do much worse things to you. I know people who smoked and drank and lived to 90 without ever seeing a doctor never ever worried about anything, used pesticides, chemicals, nothing seem to bother them and they were tough as nails. But they were real happy and never worried or get upset. I know other people worry, get mad all the time and try to do all the right things drop dead at 40.

Don’t worry, be happy and love everyone

I couldn’t agree more with your wise words! One thing is certain in life: all of us will die one day and every day we’re a little bit closer. I’m not going to worry about something so far-fetched until there is ample and evident proof that is actually harmful. Our bodies are bombarded every day by thousands of different frequencies and our bodies are pretty resilient...

 

[PBz]

I have to call BS on myself. I am aware of SAR and work to minimize it but I eat bacon and don’t always remove all of the char from my cooked meats. I have also had cooking oils go a tad high.

If you are a fan of BBQ burnt ends.. don’t even bother worrying about LTE RF from the face of a 42mm watch.

 

[risenphoenixkai]

Wow. Technician. Community college? Big authority in electromagnetism.

Wrong. US Navy. I was working in an operational nuclear reactor environment when I was 19 years old, and I worked in the private sector for several years after I got out. I may not have a PhD, but I'll bet I know more than you.

 

[Orangeman13]

I’m only going to turn LTE on when I’m away from my iPhone. So I’m not too concerned

 

[fischersd]

I'm sure there was more than one tinfoil comment in this thread (scanned it...too much BS for me to wade through all of it).

Firstly, the cellular S3 Apple Watch only turns on cellular when bluetooth and wifi aren't available to connect to the iPhone or known wifi networks - so most of the time, there is absolutely no cellular signal.
Secondly, the screen is the antennae, so you have the watch body, ceramic back and band shielding you from the cellular signals.

Regarding the comments on analog vs 2G vs LTE and harm or not harm? Having worked in telecom and tech for my career, I can tell you that what is harmful is amplitude (signal strength), not necessarily frequency. (honestly, I'm surprised none of us got cancer from those bricks we used to hold up to our heads!!! They got HOT!!!)
Cellular, Bluetooth, Satellite Radio, Wifi and Microwaves are all within the same range (well, for the higher frequencies anyways - the lower frequencies not so much) But bluetooth and wifi have fairly low signal strength - so, even if there is a risk to the body, it's significantly lowered.

Those that think non-ionizing radiation is completely benign, I invite to go live and procreate under high transformer wires....that electromagnetic interference really isn't healthy!!!

Everyone should get bluetooth headphones and leave your iPhones on a charging pad somewhere.

 

[Osamede]

LTE transmissions are carried in the microwave range of frequencies.

Microwaves are not ionising radiation.

Low energy non-ionising radiation passes through the body without being absorbed. As far as it’s concerned, we’re not even there.

Despite what some crackpots or people peddling 21st century snake oil would like you to believe, LTE transmissions pose no health risk whatsoever.

Gamma rays, x-rays, ultraviolet light, alpha and beta emissions, and neutron flux are all very bad for you (some far more so than others). Microwave radiation doesn’t do anything to you unless you’re standing right in front of an activated high-power antenna rig and letting it cook you.

Source: I’m a former health physics technician and radiation worker heavily trained in the particulars of radiation and its effects on the human body.

As the saying goes, you cannot prove a negative. In other words unless you can prove that something is impossible and that there is no evidence to the contrary, then you need to steer clear of any definitive claims that something is not XYZ. You can only refer to studies you know of, which supporting the case that it is A or B or C.

So, anyone reading this should be skeptical that you actually know what you're talking about. You're trying to manufacture some sort of "black vs white" storyline in an area that absolutely is full of 1000 shades of grey.

The one point everyone is missing on this thread. Even Mercola states that the problem with your phone is really only a problem whilst you make a call. At that point it generates an order of magnitude more potentially harmful energy than it does when not making a call. He recommends holding the phone at arms length on speaker phone as a mitigation.

So even if you buy into the cell phone being a danger. It's only a danger when making a call and is mitigated at arms length. The watch is always at arms length. It's only a problem on the rare occasion you make a call, not 18h per day in standby. It's likely not an issue. And as suggested before, if you are concerned and have no need for LTE on a given day just turn off the antenna. I will only ever need it when I cycle.

Actually the device is not at "arms length" but rather always on your skin.

And the device syncs automatically, using LTE when not in wifo or blueooth network. So the LTE data radio is in use periodically, even if you don't actively initiate anything with the device.

 

[sirozha]

Wrong. US Navy. I was working in an operational nuclear reactor environment when I was 19 years old, and I worked in the private sector for several years after I got out. I may not have a PhD, but I'll bet I know more than you.

And how would you know that?

 

[risenphoenixkai]

So, anyone reading this should be skeptical that you actually know what you're talking about.

I invite you to present your evidence that you know what you're talking about. I've already offered my credentials.
[doublepost=1506563073][/doublepost]

And how would you know that?

I consider it a pretty safe bet. Almost as safe as my bet that the LTE Apple Watch's electromagnetic emissions will cause precisely zero cases of cancer.

 

[jcmoney10]

All this worry about whether the watch causes cancer, but what about AirPods, those are right up against your heads for hours at a time.

 

[Osamede]

All this worry about whether the watch causes cancer, but what about AirPods, those are right up against your heads for hours at a time.

Would this make the watch cause less cancer? is that some sort of "logic"?

In any case, I dont have any airpods.
[doublepost=1506639162][/doublepost]

I invite you to present your evidence that you know what you're talking about. I've already offered my credentials..

Sir/madam, your self-claim on an internet forum is not "credentials"? In any case, science and logic is what I'm interested in, not who you are. So far you are claiming to be able to prove a negative, so your credibility is highly questionable, as is your case.

 

[Fadik]

Is anyone concerned about LTE on an Apple Watch? From what I understand Bluetooth has about 1/1000 the radiation level of LTE, so having that kind of powerful signal strapped on your skin seems worrisome.

I've been googling to see if I can get some hard info on this, but you know how it is, sensational studies with flawed methodologies and not enough in the way of peer reviewed research to shed enough light on this. I'd like to upgrade but I'd likely go with the bluetooth only model for peace of mind.

[doublepost=1507232099][/doublepost]Hi I just got a 38 iwatch series 3. Since I start using I feel discomfort on my wrist. I changed to right wrist got the same discomfort. Can any body tell me why and I wonder any other user had the same experience???

 

[bruinsrme]

As myself someone who studies mri physics which also uses radiowaves to flip protons not everything stated above is true. It is true that radiowaves do not result in ionizing radiation. In other words they do not alter the atomic structure by displacing electrons. They however (radiowaves) can result in friction between molecules and they can affect biological tissue through heating effects. When people undergo mri scans using fast changing echo gradients it can and often does result in elevated temperatures of biologic tissues. There is theoretical risk that these effects could be detrimental to nuclear material such as DNA. The bottom line is at this time there is no convincing evidence that radiowaves at the microwave frequencies at the strength used in cell phone signals is detrimental. However that being said there are several respected studies that have appeared recently in the literature which may refute the "absolute" safety . If you want to learn more google an article that appeared in scientific America investigating this very issue. I think as of now the answer is we're not 100 clear yet if any detrimental effects can or are occurring, the most important thing to realize is there are plenty of more significantly detrimental agents in the environment including the chemicals that you put on your body that you should probably be more concerned about.

PS I currently use RF to destroy tumors in the body using RF as well as Microwave so for those who say "harmless" Not always true. Depends on the energy delivered and proximity.

This quote is from cancer.org
"A study by the US National Toxicology Program (NTP) exposed groups of lab rats to types of RF energy used in cell phones. The rats were exposed for about 9 hours a day, starting before birth and continuing for up to 2 years. Partial findings from this study showed increased (although still low) risks of brain and heart tumors in male rats exposed to RF radiation, although there was no increased risk among female rats. Some aspects of this study make it hard to know what these results might mean for people, but the results add evidence to the idea that RF radiation might potentially impact human health."

RF you are using is extremely high energy and also contains non-ionizing/ionizing radiation compared to what we are discussing here. That crap is designed to destroy and/or alter DNA of cell structures. Heck the structures around the treatment areas are being bombarded by more energy we are talking here.

 

[Osamede]

[doublepost=1507232099][/doublepost]
Hi I just got a 38 iwatch series 3. Since I start using I feel discomfort on my wrist. I changed to right wrist got the same discomfort. Can any body tell me why and I wonder any other user had the same experience???

Can't speak for the iphone but I've had a similar experience on the Samsung Gear S, which has 3G.

Interestingly this seems to be the same whether I have it in offline mode or with 3G on. So is difficult to say whether this is a mind playing tricks/psychosomatic, or if there is something there from the radio - or whether offline mode is truly radio off.

 

[steve62388]

These days a person who has never smoked could just as likely get cancer as somebody who has 50 smoke a day.

Which tobacco firm do you work for?

I'm not a tin foil hat wearing sort of guy and I smoke, but big tobacco admitted years ago that smoking increases your chance of cancer.

 

[The Game 161]

Which tobacco firm do you work for?

I'm not a tin foil hat wearing sort of guy and I smoke, but big tobacco admitted years ago that smoking increases your chance of cancer.

Of course it does but you can easily get cancer while never smoking, eating healthy everyday and exercising 4-5 days a week. Cancer does not discriminate

 

[Osamede]

Well factually speaking cancer does discriminate, since out of the three things you mentioned (smoking, eating healthy and exercising), only one of those things increases your chances of getting cancer. And that's smoking.

So it's rather appalling to see you admit facts in your first sentence, then in the least sentence attempt to pretend the same facts away.

Sure cancer has complex causes. But it's established science that one of them is smoking. Dont distort that.

Have some integrity. It's what's missing in society these days.

A device like this watch will have such questions. And they are well founded. Let's take them seriously instead of trying to ignore them.

 

[warrenal]

I tried the Cellular AW3 for about 10 days and had to return it. Just couldn't feel comfortable with the radiation potential. My wrist also ached, but I'm thinking that's more likely due to constantly positioning my wrist in new ways to interact with the watch vs. electromagnetic hypersensitivity. But who knows. It's a shame, because I really enjoyed the product.

 

[tivoboy]

I tried the Cellular AW3 for about 10 days and had to return it. Just couldn't feel comfortable with the radiation potential. My wrist also ached, but I'm thinking that's more likely due to constantly positioning my wrist in new ways to interact with the watch vs. electromagnetic hypersensitivity. But who knows. It's a shame, because I really enjoyed the product.

The thing people lose site of is that it's not necessarily radiation per se, but more just the HEAT produced by the radios that up close to the body is what even apple recommends against (for phones at least). Not sure if anyone has done any temperature tests of the back of the device heat dissipation when using LTE heavily. Maybe that is why apple used ceramic on the LTE watch, it doesn't directly transfer heat as much.