Apple Welcomes Kindle Fire Tablet and More Android Fragmentation

[guch20]

And why exactly are people trying to defy what a tablet actually is for? It's a bit daft isn't it?

If you really want to stretch it out, what are you going to class a Windows 8 tablet using a Core i5 CPU then? Able to run Windows software? It sure as hell is a lot more then an iPad. So what does that make the iPad?
And as for the Kindle Fire, it has an operating system, you can install programmes, it has a processor, system memory.

They are ALL computers, the line is very muddy to conclude otherwise to be honest. The only thing they do differently is productivity I think?

But if you are going to make definitions, then you are going to have to clearly state exactly what defies a computer? And you are going to argue that for ever I think..

What functionality will a Windows 8 tablet have that an iPad 2 or 3 won't? "Running Windows" doesn't make it superior, and in many people's minds is actually a mark against it.

And please don't act like it'll have the ability to run all the best new games like Windows desktop does, since it appears it'll only run what comes from its app marketplace, and the Windows app marketplace is embarrassingly tiny.

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It was a valid point at the time in my mind for which I now cannot remember at all haha.

Trust me, I've been there lol

 

[thenerdal]

Aren't you the one who presented the definition from Wikipedia and treated it as gospel? And that definition of a tablet matches up exactly with a Kindle Touch. You can't argue that your own given definition is crap now. How something is primarily used has no bearing on what it actually is.

The fact that I use my 1st gen Kindle to prop up a table leg means it is both an eReader and a nifty furniture fixer-upper.

Just did some research. A tablet is a mobile computer. While an eReader is a device. Kindle Touch is a device, not a mobile computer, therefore, it's not a tablet.

 

[apolloa]

What functionality will a Windows 8 tablet have that an iPad 2 or 3 won't? "Running Windows" doesn't make it superior, and in many people's minds is actually a mark against it.

And please don't act like it'll have the ability to run all the best new games like Windows desktop does, since it appears it'll only run what comes from its app marketplace, and the windows app marketplace is embarrassingly tiny.

Like I said, you will have to defy exactly what classes a computer a computer in order to have any valid argument.
And that is why the whole argument is pointless because no one is going to agree on what makes a computer a computer.

My personal opinion is that they are ALL computers because they are all based on the same system as one. The scope of the ability's of the device doesn't come into it when they all have the same features that a computer does what ever the ability.

 

[guch20]

Just did some research. A tablet is a mobile computer. While an eReader is a device. Kindle Touch is a device, not a mobile computer, therefore, it's not a tablet.

A device is defined as: "a tool or machine designed to perform a particular task or function." "A" task or function. As in one task or function.

The Kindle Touch does more than eReading. You can surf the web and check email, and matches the physical properties of a tablet according to the definition you gave. Therefore, it's a tablet.

 

[fitshaced]

People will have to wait until they see the Kindle fire before they can talk it up or down as we have no idea how good or buggy it might be. This is new to Amazon and so could have unexpected hurdles and set backs along the way which might make people think 'yep, we were right about android all along' causing more damage to any iPad competitor.

Or, it could be awesome.

 

[guch20]

Like I said, you will have to defy exactly what classes a computer a computer in order to have any valid argument.
And that is why the whole argument is pointless because no one is going to agree on what makes a computer a computer.

My personal opinion is that they are ALL computers because they are all based on the same system as one. The scope of the ability's of the device doesn't come into it when they all have the same features that a computer does what ever the ability.

Although I completely disagree that a Windows 8 tablet is somehow automatically a lot more than an iPad, I'm gonna give your post a thumbs up, just for your acknowledgement of how pointless all this discussion from everyone has been since we can't even agree on what a freaking tablet or computer actually is.

 

[thenerdal]

A device is defined as: "a tool or machine designed to perform a particular task or function." "A" task or function. As in one task or function.

The Kindle Touch does more than eReading. You can surf the web and check email, and matches the physical properties of a tablet according to the definition you gave. Therefore, it's a tablet.

Not really, since it's not a mobile computer. Which is basically a computer in your hands. Meaning you can most of the stuff you do on a computer with a mobile computer.

 

[guch20]

Not really, since it's not a mobile computer. Which is basically a computer in your hands. Meaning you can most of the stuff you do on a computer with a mobile computer.

Doesn't it depend on what you plan to do with a mobile computer?

If you can say the Kindle Touch isn't a tablet due to what it can't do, I'd have every right to say the Kindle Fire isn't a tablet either because of all the things it can't do relative to an iPad.

 

[samcraig]

The "truth" is - it doesn't matter if it's a tablet or not. It's the Kindle Fire.

The only reason why it would ever need to be "defined" is for statistics so someone can make comparisons as to whether or not it sold more/less/same as something else in its class

I really don't think the consumer cares all that much what something is called. They'll buy it (or not) based on what it can do and how it's marketed

And right now - it's marketed as the Kindle Fire.

When someone asks you what you have in your hand - do you say it's an iPad or it's a tablet?

When you show off your phone - do you say it's an iPhone, Galaxy S2 or do you say "it's a smart phone" ?

my .02

 

[Deedlez]

Despite being another example of Android fragmentation, I think this will be the iPad's main competitor. It's the first one (that I'm aware of, anyway) to try to compete against the iPad on different terms, specifically the price point. Sony used to sell their PlayStations at a loss on the hardware, but made it back in software etc.

Competition is a good thing too - it will only result in better products for everyone.

 

[thenerdal]

Doesn't it depend on what you plan to do with a mobile computer?

If you can say the Kindle Touch isn't a tablet due to what it can't do, I'd have every right to say the Kindle Fire isn't a tablet either because of all the things it can't do relative to an iPad.

No matter what you say, the Kindle touch is not a tablet in the tablet market. The tablet market has tablets that allow people to view media. The Kindle touch doesn't allow that, except through books. Which is why it's an eReader.

Compare all the tablets in the market and they'll all have apps. They'll all be able to play videos. Not the Kindle Touch.

 

[TallManNY]

The only thing holding it back is that it's a modified version of Android 2.x instead of 3.0+ which has true tablet widgets for developers to work with. Amazon needs to update the Kindle Fire to support ICS ASAP so developers don't have to specifically target the Kindle Fire.

No. Developers have to modify their programs to run on the only Android tablet out there that is going to have a significant user base.
This is what Amazon is going to say: I'm going to sell 20 million of these in the next year. I'm going to sell another 20 million the year after that. I'm not going to change my OS significantly and I'm going to support these Tablets for the next four years. That means a developer can hope to sell the same piece of code for years to millions of users. How the hell do you target the flavor of the month handsets that get thrown away every six months?

 

[guch20]

No matter what you say, the Kindle touch is not a tablet in the tablet market. The tablet market has tablets that allow people to view media. The Kindle touch doesn't allow that, except through books. Which is why it's an eReader.

Compare all the tablets in the market and they'll all have apps. They'll all be able to play videos. Not the Kindle Touch.

They also all have accelerometers, and the Fire doesn't. So, using your definition of inclusion by exclusion, the Fire is not a tablet either.

Note: I don't actually believe this crap. I'm just trying to make a point about how stupid it is to endlessly argue about semantics.

 

[shompa]

I love how musicians harps about evil iTunes and Apples 8-11% cut.
I love how companies/uses harps on evil iTunes and Apple for their 30% cut in apps.

But Amazon Rulezzzz with their 70-30 cut in books. Making downloading books more expensive then buying them.

It will take 2 minutes before the Fire is hacked to runs clean Android. Then we all can have cheap Android tablets. Since they are sold at a loss, Apple should buy 100 million of them and put Amazon out of business. Rebrand them as iPad lite with iOS and all macheads will buy them for 399.

 

[BaldiMac]

Despite being another example of Android fragmentation, I think this will be the iPad's main competitor. It's the first one (that I'm aware of, anyway) to try to compete against the iPad on different terms, specifically the price point. Sony used to sell their PlayStations at a loss on the hardware, but made it back in software etc.

Competition is a good thing too - it will only result in better products for everyone.

I disagree that it will be the iPad's main competitor. It may gain the most market share of any iPad competitor, but it's impact on iPad sales will likely be minimal in it's current implementation. They two products are strongly differentiated.

 

[samcraig]

They also all have accelerometers, and the Fire doesn't. So, using your definition of inclusion by exclusion, it's not a tablet either.

Sorry - where did we vote who was the arbiter of what was and what was not a tablet. Or, for that matter, what specs were required.

Silly nonsense. The general public really doesn't care.

 

[voonyx]

It's another in the "killer" line of devices that gets hyped up only on forums. It'll be successful, but it will have very minimal if any effect on iPad sales.

Remember the S2 was supposed to be an iPhone killer since it was so successful in Europe , now the Nexus is the next one.

The Kindle Fire will be the most successful non iPad tablet, it won't come anywhere close to being the most successful tablet overall.

 

[thenerdal]

They also all have accelerometers, and the Fire doesn't. So, using your definition of inclusion by exclusion, it's not a tablet either.

Except, it is a tablet(scroll down to #7):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref...11&h=4e055ee09086be65979140786825e9d17e7d87d5

 

[samcraig]

It's another in the "killer" line of devices that gets hyped up only on forums. It'll be successful, but it will have very minimal if any effect on iPad sales.

Remember the S2 was supposed to be an iPhone killer since it was so successful in Europe , now the Nexus is the next one.

The Kindle Fire will be the most successful non iPad tablet, it won't come anywhere close to being the most successful tablet overall.

Ummm I think only you has brought up the notion of "killer"

No one has said anything was killing anything. But I love that you throw in your disdain for the S2 in every one of these types of threads.

And you accused me of posting irrelevance on another thread? Wow.

 

[voonyx]

Ummm I think only you has brought up the notion of "killer"

No one has said anything was killing anything. But I love that you throw in your disdain for the S2 in every one of these types of threads.

And you accused me of posting irrelevance on another thread? Wow.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20112807-256/kindle-fire-an-ipad-killer-yes-its-the-price-stupid/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbroes/2011/09/29/amazon-fire-the-ipad-killer/

http://cmvlive.com/technology/gadgets/kindle-fire-tablet-comparison-is-it-really-the-ipad-killer

http://www.appolicious.com/tech/articles/9620-amazons-kindle-fire-tablet-an-ipad-killer

Yes, I'm the first one to mention that the Fire is an iPad killer You're not even trying to hide how obtuse and transparent you are

What are you so upset about? I can't deal with your dramatics. I simply stated that everyone talked about the S2 as being an iPhone killer, and that's "disdain" for the S2? Surprised you didn't say vitriol

 

[TallManNY]

It's another in the "killer" line of devices that gets hyped up only on forums. It'll be successful, but it will have very minimal if any effect on iPad sales.

Remember the S2 was supposed to be an iPhone killer since it was so successful in Europe , now the Nexus is the next one.

The Kindle Fire will be the most successful non iPad tablet, it won't come anywhere close to being the most successful tablet overall.

No, this is very different. This is much cheaper than the iPad. $500 versus $200 is really significant. Those phones where the real cost is the monthly service bill offered no savings over the iPhone. By radically undercutting the iPad the Fire is going to cause a real slow down in the iPads growth in the U.S. market. You watch and see.
I'm going to agree that this isn't a killer but this is competition in a way the S2 and Nexus really aren't.

 

[k995]

It's the argument I always make to android users. So many roms, so much fragmentation.

Yeah choice is a bitch, so confusing all those different kind of cars, never know wich is right for me. I hope there comes a time where there is just 1 car .


Choice is good dont let the apple brainwashing get to you.

 

[guch20]

Sorry - where did we vote who was the arbiter of what was and what was not a tablet. Or, for that matter, what specs were required.

Silly nonsense. The general public really doesn't care.

That's the point I've been making for the last ten pages!

Thank you.

 

[bigsexyy81]

A few months ago I would have called the whole fragmentation bit a weak argument. I also really liked the Motorola Xoom and that would have been my tablet of choice then. But now with iTunes Match and iCloud coming out, there is no way I would buy anything other than an iPad. Too easy and streamlined, which is how it should be.

 

[guch20]

Yeah choice is a bitch, so confusing all those different kind of cars, never know wich is right for me. I hope there comes a time where there is just 1 car .


Choice is good dont let the apple brainwashing get to you.

Bad analogy.

Now, if there were thousands of different cars, and many of them only let you run on certain types of gas and on a small number of roads, that would be a bad thing, and that's much more comparable to the fragmentation going on with Android phones.