Apple Welcomes Kindle Fire Tablet and More Android Fragmentation

[voonyx]

No, this is very different. This is much cheaper than the iPad. $500 versus $200 is really significant. Those phones where the real cost is the monthly service bill offered no savings over the iPhone. By radically undercutting the iPad the Fire is going to cause a real slow down in the iPads growth in the U.S. market. You watch and see.
I'm going to agree that this isn't a killer but this is competition in a way the S2 and Nexus really aren't.

I agree with you. A $300 difference in price is huge, especially considering how robust the Fire will be at that pricepoint. I just don't seeing it putting such a huge dent in the iPad that it'll be anything appreciable.

I have no doubt that the Fire will sell multi-millions though. The iPad will just sell multi-millions more LOL. That doesn't make the Fire a bad product in anyway.

 

[guch20]

We're getting nowhere with trying to figure out what to label the Fire.

How about this:

There are two levels of smartphone (I know you can argue there are more, but let's try to keep this simple, ffs). There are high-end and low-end. You don't pay a small price and expect all the features of a high-end smartphone, just as you won't pay a large price for a Kindle Fire, so you shouldn't expect a full-featured tablet.

It's a "low-end" tablet. It's great for what you pay for it, but you should not expect to be able to have the functionality or the large variety of apps that you get with an iPad.

Is that a fair comparison?

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I agree with you. A $300 difference in price is huge, especially considering how robust the Fire will be at that pricepoint. I just don't seeing it putting such a huge dent in the iPad that it'll be anything appreciable.

I have no doubt that the Fire will sell multi-millions though. The iPad will just sell multi-millions more LOL. That doesn't make the Fire a bad product in anyway.

The problem seems to be that Amazonians take offense to anything they perceive to be a slight against the Kindle Fire, even if you're simply stating the facts about what the thing can and can't do.

It's not an iPad, nor is it meant to be. If it were, it would be larger, made of glass and metal, include a camera, Bluetooth, give you an option to buy a 3G model, would have an accelerometer, would have a gyroscope, would have multi-touch that recognized more than two fingers, would have GPS capabilities, and would connect to the Android Marketplace so you could take advantage of a number of apps comparable to that of an iPad.

The Kindle Fire looks to be a great "tablet lite" but it's not a full-featured tablet. It's just not. It's perfect for what it does, but people need to stop trying to line it up with something that does what it can't.

To refer to it as a full-on tablet or an "iPad killer" is going to serve to confuse the uninformed and piss off the masses. If many people purchase one of these thinking it truly is as full-featured as an iPad, there will be a lot of complaining, a lot of negative reviews, and a lot of returns. None of this is good for Amazon and the future of the Kindle Fire.

 

[voonyx]

The problem seems to be that Amazonians seem to take offense to anything they perceive to be a slight against the Kindle Fire, even if you're simply stating the facts about what the thing can and can't do.

It's not an iPad, nor is it meant to be. If it were, it would be larger, made of glass and metal, include a camera, Bluetooth, give you an option to buy a 3G model, would have an accelerometer, would have a gyroscope, would have multi-touch that recognized more than two fingers, would have GPS capabilities, and would connect to the Android Marketplace so you could take advantage of a comparable number of apps.

The Kindle Fire looks to be a great "tablet lite" but it's not a full featured tablet. It's just not. It's perfect for what it does, but people need to stop trying to line it up with something that does what it can't.

Yep I agree with that as well. That's why I say it won't put a dent in Ipad sales. If you want a full fledged tablet, your choice is not going to be between a fire and an ipad. They're two different products almost. While they have similarities, they're not geared toward the same type of user (at least IMO).

Amazon has its name and reputation backing its device and therefore it will sell millions, and it's going to be a great device. But I don't see it putting any kind of "OMG Apple is done!" dent in iPad. It's just another "android tablet", the difference is it'll definitely be the most successful "android tablet" to date.

 

[ThanksSteve]

While Apple has a much better position with iOS versus Android in comparison to Mac versus Windows, I would't discount the threat of these cheaper tablets in a bad economy. Still think Apple will win in this arena, but $199 is pretty cheap and a lot of people will go for it, if for no ther reason than it's all they can afford.

Apple will keep the top economic market as with Macs either way.

 

[samcraig]

We'll never ever know whether people would have bought an iPad but instead got a a Kindle Fire. Just like we'll never know if someone bought an iPad instead of a Kindle fire. At the end of the day - it will just be sales #s. And both products will sell well.

Even with surveys, reporters and analysts trying to guess - -that's simply something that can never be truly exposed.

 

[guch20]

We'll never ever know whether people would have bought an iPad but instead got a a Kindle Fire. Just like we'll never know if someone bought an iPad instead of a Kindle fire. At the end of the day - it will just be sales #s. And both products will sell well.

Even with surveys, reporters and analysts trying to guess - -that's simply something that can never be truly exposed.

We could know, if Amazon released sales figures. Apple does (and not just "shipped" numbers).

Not a knock on Amazon. Just a fact to point out that it doesn't have to be hard to figure sales numbers out.

 

[samcraig]

While Apple has a much better position with iOS versus Android in comparison to Mac versus Windows, I would't discount the threat of these cheaper tablets in a bad economy. Still think Apple will win in this arena, but $199 is pretty cheap and a lot of people will go for it, if for no ther reason than it's all they can afford.

Apple will keep the top economic market as with Macs either way.

Apple will probably make more money.

That being said - I agree with you. And it will also make a difference with families who might buy a couple of kindle fires for their kids instead of each one getting an iPad. Or perhaps they might by one of each.

At 199 - and it being 7" - it's a great portable media consumption device (on paper). And is within "gift giving" price range for more people. And with younger children - less of an investment to worry about it breaking while still being able to entertain them with movies, music, books and games.

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We could know, if Amazon released sales figures. Apple does (and not just "shipped" numbers).

Not a knock on Amazon. Just a fact to point out that it doesn't have to be hard to figure sales numbers out.

Numbers don't really tell the story - they are just numbers. You can say one sold more than the other. But you won't know if one really displaced the other.

If I buy an iPad - do you know if I would have bought a Kindle Fire. Or that I was even looking at one? Do you know if I bought one because I preferred a bigger screen? Not really - you only know that 1 unit was sold.

If I buy one of each - is there a way to determine that I did that because I didn't want to spend money on two iPads. Or because I already have lots of eBooks via Amazon and my kindle just broke?

No - again - you just have a tick mark for each product as one sold. That's my point. Everyone will try an analyze the numbers - but it's pretty much conjecture.

 

[guch20]

Numbers don't really tell the story - they are just numbers. You can say one sold more than the other. But you won't know if one really displaced the other.

If I buy an iPad - do you know if I would have bought a Kindle Fire. Or that I was even looking at one? Do you know if I bought one because I preferred a bigger screen? Not really - you only know that 1 unit was sold.

If I buy one of each - is there a way to determine that I did that because I didn't want to spend money on two iPads. Or because I already have lots of eBooks via Amazon and my kindle just broke?

No - again - you just have a tick mark for each product as one sold. That's my point. Everyone will try an analyze the numbers - but it's pretty much conjecture.

That's true, but why argue the unknowable (one reason the theism vs. atheism debate is so pointless).

However, you may (again, may) get a semi-decent read by comparing iPad sales figures pre- and post-Fire. If there's a huge drop in iPad sales, the Fire no doubt has something to do with it. If there is little to no drop, it's probably not really having an impact.

It's not a perfect gauge, but at least it's something.

 

[28monkeys]

Well, just quote Steve Jobs from his latest biography "It's piece of ****"

 

[D.T.]

And with younger children - less of an investment to worry about it breaking while still being able to entertain them with movies, music, books and games.

Will you please talk to my 3-1/2 year old and convince her of this ... so I can have my iPad back ...

 

[iSayuSay]

Welcome, Kindle .. No, seriously

 

[BaldiMac]

Numbers don't really tell the story - they are just numbers. You can say one sold more than the other. But you won't know if one really displaced the other.

If I buy an iPad - do you know if I would have bought a Kindle Fire. Or that I was even looking at one? Do you know if I bought one because I preferred a bigger screen? Not really - you only know that 1 unit was sold.

If I buy one of each - is there a way to determine that I did that because I didn't want to spend money on two iPads. Or because I already have lots of eBooks via Amazon and my kindle just broke?

No - again - you just have a tick mark for each product as one sold. That's my point. Everyone will try an analyze the numbers - but it's pretty much conjecture.

Proper scientific surveys aren't some sort of mystical conjecture. I think you are going a bit overboard here with what is unknowable.

 

[Maschil]

Yeah, that's why all those wonderful Android tablets are flying off the shelves, selling like hot cakes... Oh, wait! They actually don't.

tablets arent being sold for 200.... atleast not brands we are familiar with..

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So if you love your iPad for everything but reading, and you enjoy your Kindle mostly for reading, does it worry you that the Fire is going to have the same screen glare issue as the iPad?

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Yeah, damn Apple and their not supporting a three-year old phone. They should be more like Google and their hardware partners who release phones that don't support the latest version of Android months and sometimes weeks later.

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And that chart only lists a few of the hundreds of models of Android phones.

who cares???? android still sales more phones....

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At $199.00 this is an impulse buy. People are going to buy them as Christmas gifts for the kids etc. Most people don't even know what an operating system is much less Android or iOS. They just see $199 bucks, it's a tablet, and you can watch movies and have apps. SOLD!

i wish more people thought liek you did... thats my exact point.... a 200 gift is much more possible than 500.... heck you can buy two of them and have anotheer 100 for another one because of no tax most of the time....

and when everyone has one... the peer pressure will increase...

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I agree - that realistic expectations are important.

There are many people who bought iPads who were disappointed in not being able to go to flash websites. I am not talking about people who post here or people who read enough about it. I'm talking average people who didn't understand why they went to sites (like farmville or whatever) and couldn't see content.

There are people who thought the iPad would be great for productivity but after using it realized that it didn't work for them as they had hoped.

Just like when the first of any new device comes out. People start to figure out what it can and can't do.

Some people feel "burned" that they wasted money (either keep it grudgingly or return it). Some people adapt and figure out ways to use it as designed. Other people love it because it was exactly what they expected and more.

The same will hold true for the Kindle fire. There will be people that fit all three of the scenarios above (and I am sure more scenarios).

if i gave you a dollar for every wise point you made id be poor...

 

[guch20]

who cares???? android still sales more phones.....

Wow.

Way to come in and completely misunderstand what's being discussed and argue a point nobody is disagreeing with.

I'd clap but I'm too busy rolling my eyes and laughing at you.

Edit: To be (barely) more on topic, you'd have to say they sell more Android tablets than iPads, but that's laughably untrue.

 

[stevensr123]

Sorry - where did we vote who was the arbiter of what was and what was not a tablet. Or, for that matter, what specs were required.

Silly nonsense. The general public really doesn't care.

This.

It makes me laugh all these fanboys are deciding what is and isn't a tablet.


News check: The kindle can do almost everything the original iPad did, at the fraction of the cost it took to buy one.


If kindle is just an ebook reader, then the original iPad is basically just an ebook reader. yet we all know this isn't true.

Stop trying to create different categories just to make the iPad look better.

The iPad is a tablet, the fire is a tablet, these two are competitors. it's that ************* simple.

 

[jrobbins]

techno eco system

The key to success is the technology ecosystem. Apple has it down. Same information and apps sync with mult. devices. Android has a version of it with some of the google app integration and android apps (enter the word "Fragmented"). ECO system means Developers will Develop, money will be made and it will succeed. Unless Amazon comes out with a phone it doesn't have an eco system at all. It just is an ala carte option. Not to say they won't come out with a phone, why wouldn't they? Good luck on coming into the race this late, but I do love me the competition, always good for us. Ultimately time will tell the tale on this. It is just beginning.

 

[stevensr123]

The key to success is the technology ecosystem. Apple has it down. Same information and apps sync with mult. devices. Android has a version of it with some of the google app integration and android apps (enter the word "Fragmented"). ECO system means Developers will Develop, money will be made and it will succeed. Unless Amazon comes out with a phone it doesn't have an eco system at all. It just is an ala carte option. Not to say they won't come out with a phone, why wouldn't they? Good luck on coming into the race this late, but I do love me the competition, always good for us. Ultimately time will tell the tale on this. It is just beginning.

By eco system they mean amazon will have music, movie,books, games, app all on there app store and ready for the consumers to download as they please.

all this integrated into there version of android, IS an ecosystem and you certainly don't need a phone to have one.

 

[BaldiMac]

This.

It makes me laugh all these fanboys are deciding what is and isn't a tablet.


News check: The kindle can do almost everything the original iPad did, at the fraction of the cost it took to buy one.


If kindle is just an ebook reader, then the original iPad is basically just an ebook reader. yet we all know this isn't true.

Stop trying to create different categories just to make the iPad look better.

The iPad is a tablet, the fire is a tablet, these two are competitors. it's that ************* simple.

Way to jump in to the conversation without any idea what's going on. You're ranting about the wrong "side" trying to decide what is and what isn't a tablet. No one is arguing that the Kindle Fire is not a tablet.

 

[disinfectant]

Only thing is - the fire isn't trying to be the iPad.

And I don't think fragmentation plays into this at all.

The fire is a media consumption device - so as long as there's a good audio/video player + eReading software - most of the people buying it will be content. Sure there will be games and possible issues. But I think Apple is missing the mark on this product. I don't think anyone buying the Kindle is aware what software is on it - nor do they care. It's not the same as with phones where people want to know if they have 2.1, 2.3, etc on it (and to be honest - I think most of the general population doesn't care anyway). I know many people who have never updated their OS from the one that shipped with their phones. And I say that across the board whether they own iPhones or other devices.

Yeah my girlfriend's father still has an original iPhone with the original software on it.

 

[BaldiMac]

By eco system they mean amazon will have music, movie,books, games, app all on there app store and ready for the consumers to download as they please.

all this integrated into there version of android, IS an ecosystem and you certainly don't need a phone to have one.

Not to mention that most Android phones will be able to play all that content as well. iOS devices will have access to a lot of it as well.

 

[Xendren]

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@samcraig
And so is the $199 iPod Touch. Just compare hardware specs with the Kindle Fire. Is the Fire more a competitor to the iPad or the IPod Touch?

 

[twoodcc]

well i do like the price of the Fire. we'll see how it does

 

[Maschil]

Wow.

Way to come in and completely misunderstand what's being discussed and argue a point nobody is disagreeing with.

I'd clap but I'm too busy rolling my eyes and laughing at you.

Edit: To be (barely) more on topic, you'd have to say they sell more Android tablets than iPads, but that's laughably untrue.

did you look at what i was quoting? rolls eyes....

my point was that the person who bashes android because of lack of support in the future is irrelevant... who really care about that.... ask your average android user....

i was just dealing with what a person said...

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@samcraig
And so is the $199 iPod Touch. Just compare hardware specs with the Kindle Fire. Is the Fire more a competitor to the iPad or the IPod Touch?

more so for the ipad.. simple because it the ipad is bought mostly by adults.... the ipod touch is bought mostly by non adults..... who will most likely buy a kindle fire? an adult....

 

[AidenShaw]

Will you please talk to my 3-1/2 year old and convince her of this ... so I can have my iPad back ...

You may be a wonderful parent, and not one of the creepy ones who think that Itoys are new generation pacifiers so that "parenting" means giving the kid some distraction so that you can ignore her - so don't take this personally.

A couple of years ago I went to a kid's birthday party at a neighbor's house, and as we went in we walked in with another couple who we'd never met before. As we entered into the first main room which was the kids' playroom stuffed with toys and other kid stuff - the woman said "nice - these toys need imagination, not batteries".

Stimulate your kids' minds with simple things, don't numb them with electronic pacifiers.

Give your 3½ year old some wooden blocks with the letters of the alphabet on them - and challenge her to spell. It will be much better for her in the long run.

 

[thenerdal]

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@samcraig
And so is the $199 iPod Touch. Just compare hardware specs with the Kindle Fire. Is the Fire more a competitor to the iPad or the IPod Touch?

iPad since they're both tablets.