Apple Will Delay Bringing Employees Back to Offices Until at Least October

[kuwxman]

Well, in fairness, there are millions of people that are now facing a very similar set of pending corporate policies and decisions by their employers. So, they broadly care about this issue and feel compelled to comment. I don’t see why that is strange or out of bounds.

While you're correct, the issue is that these people who are "broadly caring" are being quiet rude with their comments. Calling these Apple employees whiners, implying they're not working as hard as they would be at Apple Park, and otherwise just being downright nasty towards them.

It is one thing to have an opinion on the subject, but it is quite another to be so negative towards someone you know nothing about. Maybe these negative people work in a role that can't work from home and are projecting jealousy? OR they have experienced the WFH life and it simply isn't for them.

Our warehouse staff has had to work at our HQ this whole time; I'm sure there are many times they've wished they could WFH too. Same goes for Apple. There are likely TONS of jobs there that could just as easily be done at home full-time. However, there are also employees who work in the test labs where that isn't as feasible...but a hybrid model might work. Apple just seems to be fighting it so hard since they just spent all this money to make a new campus...and it is not needed in today's working world. The point is, everyone's job is different so calling folks entitled or cry babies for fighting to work from home is just plain ignorant.

 

[mikethemartian]

I am an Apple shareholder and a customer, in booth regards I for sure have a say in this.

Only at the annual shareholders meeting. Otherwise no.

 

[jk73]

While you're correct, the issue is that these people who are "broadly caring" are being quiet rude with their comments. Calling these Apple employees whiners, implying they're not working as hard as they would be at Apple Park, and otherwise just being downright nasty towards them.

It is one thing to have an opinion on the subject, but it is quite another to be so negative towards someone you know nothing about. Maybe they work in a role that can't work from home and are projecting jealousy? Our warehouse staff has had to work at our HQ this whole time; I'm sure there are many times they've wished they could WFH too. Same goes for Apple. There are likely TONS of jobs there that could just as easily be done at home full-time. However, there are also employees who work in the test labs where that isn't as feasible...but a hybrid model might work. Apple just seems to be fighting it so hard since they just spent all this money to make a new campus...and it is not needed in today's working world. The point is, everyone's job is different so calling folks entitled or cry babies for fighting to work from home is just plain ignorant.

This issue didn’t start yesterday. In their first public letter, they accused Tim Cook of caring insuficiently about diversity, which is comical. (That claim suddenly disappeared from the latest letter.) These people are whiny, entitled clowns who deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.

 

[mikethemartian]

If enough shareholders agree they could force the issue in the general meeting.

They can have the issue brought up for discussion at a shareholders meeting but they can’t change the policy. The only power a shareholder has is to vote for the members of the Board of Directors.

 

[Steve Adams]

Buy enough shares and you will definitely have a say.

Let me know when someone does. Besides the board and timmy NOBODY has a say.

 

[threesixty360]

You hate it “when people can’t do basic maths”?

Physician, heal thyself.

The average age of a COVID death is ~83. There was never any reason to shut down the world rather than shut down the nursing homes and tell older people to stay home.

Yes, lets use the average number as if no one ever died of Covid in the their 40's,50s or 60s. And thats the average age in the UK not worldwide. Ask India and Brazil weather the average age of death is 83 in their countries?

The changing age profile of COVID-19 mortality in Brazil: a new global trend? | Global Platform

corona-older.com

"Younger adults are now accounting for a higher share of reported COVID-19 mortality in Brazil [1]. Between November 2020 and March 2021, the proportion of reported COVID-19 deaths among people aged between 30 and 59 rose from 20.3 to 26.9 per cent. This occurred at the same time as a sharp rise in overall reported COVID-19 mortality, from around 500 to around 2,500 deaths a day [1]."

The issues you forget are
a) no one can reliably tell at what age you got Covid whether it will be serious or not. You just cannot say.

b) our medical facilities are what has kept many who were younger than 83 alive after they went to hospital with Covid. If the health service is overwhelmed then we cant keep these people alive. Our own PM Boris Johnson would be dead now if he hadn't got the hospital care he received and he is in his mid 50s

c) an overwhelmed NHS means that over operations (cancer etc..) cannot be treated. As you cant just leave people to die on the floor outside hospitals can you?

Stop messing with stats.. you're not very good at it.

 

[topdrawer]

Entitled much? The idea that a “worker empowerment” movement should begin with six-figure tech workers is just absurd.

The empowerment will trickle down.

 

[jk73]

Yes, lets use the average number as if no one ever died of Covid in the their 40's,50s or 60s. And thats the average age in the UK not worldwide. Ask India and Brazil weather the average age of death is 83 in their countries?

The changing age profile of COVID-19 mortality in Brazil: a new global trend? | Global Platform

corona-older.com

"Younger adults are now accounting for a higher share of reported COVID-19 mortality in Brazil [1]. Between November 2020 and March 2021, the proportion of reported COVID-19 deaths among people aged between 30 and 59 rose from 20.3 to 26.9 per cent. This occurred at the same time as a sharp rise in overall reported COVID-19 mortality, from around 500 to around 2,500 deaths a day [1]."

The issues you forget are
a) no one can reliably tell at what age you got Covid whether it will be serious or not. You just cannot say.

b) our medical facilities are what has kept many who were younger than 83 alive after they went to hospital with Covid. If the health service is overwhelmed then we cant keep these people alive. Our own PM Boris Johnson would be dead now if he hadn't got the hospital care he received and he is in his mid 50s

c) an overwhelmed NHS means that over operations (cancer etc..) cannot be treated. As you cant just leave people to die on the floor outside hospitals can you?

Stop messing with stats.. you're not very good at it.

As I said: Physician, heal thyself.

We absolutely can predict whether COVID will be serious based on age. Sure, there might be an outlier here or there — a 30-year-old who gets very sick or a 90-year-old who doesn’t — but the numbers are the numbers. Healthy people under age 70 have a 99.9% survival rate.

99.9%.

 

[blueflame]

The empowerment will trickle down.

I completely agree. but it is funny to see such a conservative leaning economic theory being used to support such progressive ideas.

the simplest answer is: Do what you want. employees are Free to quit, or free to stay. Apple is free to lose/retain employees.

Speaking of economic theory, one reason that i love capitalism is it allows for free bargaining in every aspect of the commerce supply chain.

The bigger concern to me is jobs not being available in America, either due to higher wage requirements, or manufacturing being moved overseas

when was the last time you saw a person pumping gas at the station? Yet millions of homeless.

it is definitely true. 2020 changed everything, And we are all still adapting to what the new normal is. unfortunately.

 

[erniefairchild1]

Anyone who believes shutdowns work should not be taken seriously.


Spreading fake information about something which then hurts the population, cause deaths, spread fear is a form of terrorism. (Might be a weak form of terrorism, but it kills thousand times more) Such people should be held responsible for their obvious lies.

One can question the quality of vaccination, but not spread information telling that it modifies DNA, kills by thousands or help the government tracking down people, inject 5G cells, make your body magnetic, etc.

The drivel you offered in your response bears no resemblance to anything I said. That says all I need to know about your politics. And you’re not to be taken seriously.

 

[jimbobb24]

While CV19 cases have risen slightly it’s too premature to call it another rise. If we get down to 2 cases and it jumps to 4 it’s another rise but one that doesn’t matter. Right now the slight inflection in the curve doesn’t matter. It might in a few weeks.

 

[jimbobb24]

I know this will spark outrage, but as long as half the US refuses to vaccinate, we should be shutting things down again anyway. Our response has been pathetic. Can you imagine us responding to the world wars this way? Having the tools at our disposal to defeat a common enemy and doing so little about it. The UK, as well, has been terrible.

There has been no long term planning. Our success and failure have been at the mercy of the pharmaceutical industry, which have been a godsend and the only part of this that have worked, and then we reject the gift. So we have to make alternative plans because this virus will keep mutating and the vaccines will keep getting weaker in their effect.

I say shut down the retail stores, as well. Delta is percolating in more people than we know including the vaccinated, mutating.

This is now a long term problem and it requires cohesiveness. Global vaccination. What an embarrassment that we can't even vaccinate the country where the vaccine is most available.

I doubt Apple backed down as much from the original letter's complaint as they did from the health reality that everyone is facing. But they should do the right thing and shutter the retail stores for all their employees then.

Please provide data that lockdowns do anything except delay outbreaks. The vaccine is available. There was never any need for lockdowns and there is none now. The vulnerable who need the vaccine have it or don’t want it. There is no other public health intervention that needs to be done except ride this out. We wanted to delay before in order to give time for the vaccine. The data is very questionable about whether or not lockdowns made any impact but doing it now is not justifiable in any way. Not be data and not even logically. You want to shut down until we pressure people to get vaccines? We want to make it so poor people cannot work and destroy their businesses again? No way. If you are worried or work with vulnerable people get the vaccine. Nothing else can or should be done now.

 

[icilies]

Apple SMB AM here.

I drive 40 minutes to work in a 5 x8 office. I manage a couple hundred accounts. These are all managed remotely. As an AM you don't sit and collaborate all day. I host meetings... remotely. Alone. In an office.

The last year I've gotten 80 minutes of my day back, get to see my kids at home, I'm walking to local businesses more for a lunch, and also had the most successful year I've ever had from a performance standpoint. This is consistent with the majority of those in my role. When employee satisfaction up and performance up it becomes very confusing for us as to why Apple is refusing to adopt remote model.

It's very interesting topic and I believe Apple will want to pilot the remote model in different segments within the company and gather data before allowing this to be an option.

A lot of valid comments on both sides here but for many roles in Apple it just does not make sense to go back to an office.

Anyways, good day everyone.

 

[jimbobb24]

“Dying” is hardly the only consequence of catching COVID, or even the worst one.

Enough with the disingenuous nonsense.

Which outcome is worse than death? I guess you could argue the inhuman policy of many hospitals if not letting family being with dying relatives was worse for the survivors but I think it’s hard to argue death isn’t the worst outcome.

However most people (upwards of 95%) have no residual problems after CV19. It continues to amaze me how on the one hand we look at population numbers but for long term outcomes we cling to a few weird cases.

The real problem with CV19 continues to be the huge differential between old and fat and young and healthy. A near harmless disease in the young and a threatening one in the old. Lockdowns for young people are simply unproven as a public health intervention.

 

[terpsbball2002]

The absolute vitriol and bitterness in these comments.

I agree, the bitterness in this thread is so weird. Tim is making the right call to see where the covid variant goes (which is exploding in CA). Yes, I agree some people have to go to the job site, but if corporate America would have force everyone back in the office Covid-19 would have been far worse for our health care system (which is already strained and has a finite amount of resources). This thread reeks of, "My life sucks, so your life should suck too."

 

[btrach144]

Well, in fairness, there are millions of people that are now facing a very similar set of pending corporate policies and decisions by their employers. So, they broadly care about this issue and feel compelled to comment. I don’t see why that is strange or out of bounds.

See below. A collection of comments from members who are clearly directly talking/insulting apple employees and caring about what their return to work plan is. Sure, you're right, others, including myself, have to make a decision to return to the office but these people below are a little bit too obsessed with what others are doing. Insulting others is strange and out of bounds when it impacts you 0%. Odd

I say, let the crybabies quit. There are thousands of qualified people out there who would LOVE to get a chance to work for Apple. They need a reality check that literally everyone is replaceable. Even the death of Steve Jobs and departure of guys like Rubinstein, Ive, and Forstall haven't destroyed Apple. These no-name scrubs can work like the rest of us have for months.

These spoiled scumbags… Hahaha, one more month… that’s what 30 days?

Get back to work people. These cry babies got to go so they can look for another job if they don’t appreciate working inside the spaceship.

These corporate employees are so lazy. They clearly don’t want to go back to the office. It’s just an excuse for these lazy workers to work inside homes and eat lays chips.

You can’t expect INNOVATION, CREATIVITY, and MOTIVATION. This is just an excuse. Let’s be real we know these lazy workers are putting in 2 hours of work and they are chilling, eating lays chips, and eating Oreo cookies for 7 hours.

what DJ Khaled said… hugging your pillow. Shame on you… Played Yourself.

Apple: FIRE THEM! DON’T GET PLAYED, DON'T GET BULLIED.

They can find a new job then. This is not Apple’s job. They have a business to run. Also, vaccines are available. This is by choice.

If the whiners who keep leaking manifestos to The Verge quit, that will be good for Apple. Apple needs to preserve its culture- which includes working in person. If there are spoiled employees who think management needs to cater to their every whim, they should move over to Google- seems like they have some employee revolt every other day.

Everyone at Apple should have had the opportunity to get vaccinated by now. Covid isn’t going away anytime soon so waiting until October seems arbitrary and a bit silly. Not to mention, delta appears to be more contagious but far less lethal than previous variants, which makes sense as far as virus evolution goes.

Listen to science Tim, not fake news trying to hype something up for the sake of ratings, and have a backbone. SJ built the spaceship for a reason. Don’t let a few bad apples ruin Apple’s corporate values. Steve Jobs talks about core values at D8

 

[jimbobb24]

This is silly. Those same people could have been out and about 15 months ago. Deaths are down because COVID creamed the most vulnerable last year, not because vaccines suddenly made it safe for 30-somethings to be in a pub. How can people still not understand this?

We will not know which of you is correct for about 3-5 years when when can review the data. Then probably 15 years for some young grad student who doesn’t care about the current politics to review the data with an unbiased eye and draw conclusions.

 

[Tonewheel]

I'm retired. When walking or riding every morning on our nearby lake path (on weekdays), I regularly see neighbors I know who should be "at work", but work from home. They're jogging, or out with the dog or, etc... When I ask them if they have the day off, I always get a smile and shrug. Working from home isn't always in the employer's best interest. I'm convinced that being back in the office isn't far off.

When I was working, I managed a group of 12 people. I was flexible and everyone worked from home on a rotating schedule. There were, however, a handful that couldn't be trusted to get their work done. This is the problem.

 

[jimbobb24]

The problem is if you refuse to get vaccinated you are part of the larger problem. The more people unvaccinated the more chances of this changing to something truly devastating. To stop this from happening we need everyone to stop being ******s and start acting like a community. In this case we really all are "in this together". We will either all die together or we will eradicate this thing and live together. You can't simply just keep saying "everyone just do what you want". The virus doesn't care who you are or who I am. It is simply looking for a host to keep spread and keep changing, eventually it could change to something that we can't stop. And you know who will be to blame? People like you and people who refuse to get vaccinated.

What if you just get the disease and clear it? That also contributes to the disease going away.

As far as this transforming into some devastating (assuming I guess that it wasn’t?), that’s not the normal path of viruses and humanity. CV19 is a completely normal virus except for the differential outcomes of the old and fat. It will most likely follow normal paths which meant if no one was vaccinated we would still deal with it. Vaccines just speed up the process and hopefully save some lives.

 

[terpsbball2002]

Why do people get so upset here? I could not care less if they go to the plant zero days a week or seven days a week.

Because they are bitter they don't have the chops or talent to work at Apple.

 

[jk73]

Because they are bitter they don't have the chops or talent to work at Apple.

No, I’m bitter because WWDC was a total snoozefest and because I’ve been waiting two years for MBP updates. I’m tired of hearing about all of these Apple WFH geniuses who are all so talented and irreplaceable.

 

[Euroamerican]

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!

You tell people enough times that they need to isolate, stay in there houses, socially distance, wipe everything down with disinfectant, don't share equipment or workspaces, cut off contact with the outside world...........

Now you tell them that they need to come back and get right back into their veal stalls?

=====================

And I'm not talking about Apple specifically. EVERYONE has been getting it drummed into their heads to stay home.

They have learned how to do it; and many how to do it well. That outcome has consequences.

 

[jk73]

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!

You tell people enough times that they need to isolate, stay in there houses, socially distance, wipe everything down with disinfectant, don't share equipment or workspaces, cut off contact with the outside world...........

Now you tell them that they need to come back and get right back into their veal stalls?

=====================

And I'm not talking about Apple specifically. EVERYONE has been getting it drummed into their heads to stay home.

They have learned how to do it; and many how to do it well. That outcome has consequences.

None of this is about COVID. None. This is entirely about people who moved away from the Bay Area and don’t want to return.

 

[gbc204]

In the past, people would quit their jobs for this. Now these people want to have their cake and eat it...

Oh, no! workers have more power now while they work for a trillion dollar company! The horror!

 

[lolOwO]

Oh, no, workers have more power now while they work for a trillion dollar company! The horror!

they always had the power to leave.