Apple Will Delay Bringing Employees Back to Offices Until at Least October

[Premium1]

Well after the dud that was iOS and iPadOS 15, work from home should not be an option because if that is the best they can do working from home, that's pretty weak.

 

[Stella]

As opposed to supporting Apple employees for standing up what they believe in, MR below the line calls them whingeing and whining. So many people across the world don’t want to go back to the office, for so many reasons: to spend more time wirth family, to reduce climate impact, just to name a few. Why do we not stand up together and work towards a world in which employees have more power, collectively, and support those who are already trying?

Many of these people have failed to grasp the world has changed. Companies have to stay competitive and attractive to employee the best available, so many companies accommodate varying degrees of WFH.

Many companies have realized that working from home can still be productive, in many cases, more productive and will continue some sort of WFH structure.

 

[Premium1]

Actually, 40%. Patrick Vallance misspoke. A big mistake to make.

But it's still extraordinarily troubling. The vaccines are less effective than they had been. And that's why we should be shutting down as we have less protection than before and the variants will continue to mutate. The vaccine still provides protection, just less than it had. And the news media has been awful in overstating its effectiveness and ignoring what has been happening in the UK and downplaying the Israeli data.

They keep moving the goalposts and talking about hospitalizations. It's incredibly difficult to get hospitalized. I've been wheeled out of an ER with a pulse of 150 and a BP of 150/110 and they wouldn't admit me. Left me on the curb for a taxi to pick me up.

So when they say the vaccines protect against hospitalization, I don't take that as any great comfort.

But even that's not even the case so much entirely. In Kentucky today I saw a number of breakthrough cases of vaccinated people who did require hospitalization.

But think how much worse it would have been without the vaccinations in the UK for example. Their cases have skyrocketed while hospitalizations and deaths did not rise at the same rate.

The vaccines are definitely weaker than they were, but still the best tool. I think we need both shutdowns and increased vaccination. I know I am in a minority on the first part.

The thing is this, Covid is not going to magically disappear, it is going to be around and stay around, so you want the world to shut down and remain shut down forever? I mean that is one way to tank the economy even further but it's not realistic. The longer this goes on, they wonder why you have a high proportion (At least in the US) who are hesitant to take the vaccine and if they see that in the long run, it's not effective, that's not a good selling point for trying to get more people vaccinated.

 

[Jamie0003]

This whole situation really annoys me. So all last year, where I work we were told remote working isn’t possible, despite us going paperless. All of a sudden, a few members of staff have to isolate, and then magically remote working is possible.

we work like this for 3 months, then the company is like nope, office working only from now on, but you can work from home if you have to isolate.

I had to take a sick day yesterday, pending the results of a PCR test. I ask if I could work remotely. Nope, not possible.

come in today, had nothing but grief from my employers due to my work falling behind. I don’t understand, when are these companies going to wake up and see the benefits?

What is even worse, is people keep leaving the business due to the way we are treated, and that’s why our work is so far behind. But no, it’s all my fault for taking a sick day…

 

[Stella]

This whole situation really annoys me. So all last year, where I work we were told remote working isn’t possible, despite us going paperless. All of a sudden, a few members of staff have to isolate, and then magically remote working is possible.

we work like this for 3 months, then the company is like nope, office working only from now on, but you can work from home if you have to isolate.

I had to take a sick day yesterday, pending the results of a PCR test. I ask if I could work remotely. Nope, not possible.

come in today, had nothing but grief from my employers due to my work falling behind. I don’t understand, when are these companies going to wake up and see the benefits?

What is even worse, is people keep leaving the business due to the way we are treated, and that’s why our work is so far behind. But no, it’s all my fault for taking a sick day…

Sounds like you work for a ****** company. Other companies are far more accommodating and understanding.

Maybe it's time to starting looking around for better positions?

 

[icwhatudidthere]

This whole situation really annoys me. So all last year, where I work we were told remote working isn’t possible, despite us going paperless. All of a sudden, a few members of staff have to isolate, and then magically remote working is possible.

we work like this for 3 months, then the company is like nope, office working only from now on, but you can work from home if you have to isolate.

I had to take a sick day yesterday, pending the results of a PCR test. I ask if I could work remotely. Nope, not possible.

come in today, had nothing but grief from my employers due to my work falling behind. I don’t understand, when are these companies going to wake up and see the benefits?

What is even worse, is people keep leaving the business due to the way we are treated, and that’s why our work is so far behind. But no, it’s all my fault for taking a sick day…

The only thing companies speak is money and in this situation, that is expressed in terms of turnover costs and employee pay. The world changed in a year and everyone's still adapting.

So far, my own read is that some of the more progressive employers are using this as a competitive advantage to try and hire talent away from companies that are unwilling to offer WFH. My own inbox is flooded with emails every day with permanent WFH jobs. Just yesterday a single recruiter sent an email with 30 openings he has for WFH and another 15 with hybrid.

What I think will happen over the next year is we'll see if these new permanent WFH jobs really stay permanent. We'll see WFH become another benefit for the more progressive companies and people will try to negotiate it more openly than before.

For companies that are unwilling to move to WFH but whose workforce has competitive WFH options available, I think they'll start to see increased turnover and thus increased costs. They'll have to offer something in return for not having WFH available such as increased pay or other benefits.

 

[Smearbrick]

Wow. Some folks are just angry.

 

[mikethemartian]

Why do people get so upset here? I could not care less if they go to the plant zero days a week or seven days a week.

 

[kuwxman]

Am I on facebook or MacRumors? Can't tell with the negativity of many of these comments...

 

[Sinequanon83]

Some really sad people in here. Remote employees never stopped working. Although I can see a lot of people holding up a mirror when they talk about "couch laziness".

I'm assuming none of these people are captains of industry which makes it even more pathetic. This is not zero-sum.

Edit: To all the actual organic comments that came in in the last few minutes, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was "brigaded" by "strike breakers". This discussion is one I've never seen re: remote work on the internet. It smells super fishy.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I think COVID is gonna be with us for a very long time. Not until everyone is or nearly all 7 billion people are vaccinated will we feel truly safe. The normalcy we are looking for is likely to be pushed out to 2027.

 

[MrMichaelJames]

Anyone who believes shutdowns work should not be taken seriously.

Every example shows it just backloads the effects. This religious belief is the meeting of scientific lack of articulation and popular ignorance. The "science' never said it would go away if we all stayed inside forever. No medical professional ever believed that. But people like this poster think it will do that. And, again, should not be taken seriously.

And if half the US doesnt want to get vaccinated...thats none of your business. "But they can give it to others!" Well, according to the vaccine folks, vaccinated people can still transmit it..so...

What it comes down to is the inherent helplessness of the vaccine fanatics. It will never be enough for them, they are broken, and theyre also enjoying their morality trip. I'm vaccinated, but I am not a vaccine fanatic.

Get on with your life. Let others do the same. If you're protected, you're protected. If you believe the only way to be safe is to stay inside, then you should do so, not force everyone else to.

The problem is if you refuse to get vaccinated you are part of the larger problem. The more people unvaccinated the more chances of this changing to something truly devastating. To stop this from happening we need everyone to stop being ******s and start acting like a community. In this case we really all are "in this together". We will either all die together or we will eradicate this thing and live together. You can't simply just keep saying "everyone just do what you want". The virus doesn't care who you are or who I am. It is simply looking for a host to keep spread and keep changing, eventually it could change to something that we can't stop. And you know who will be to blame? People like you and people who refuse to get vaccinated.

 

[bitslap47]

Just throwing this out there and take it with a grain of salt as it is just gossip I heard... but word on the street is Apple will be telling employees who do not want to return that they will help them find work elsewhere. Kind of a nice gesture honestly if true.

 

[Mainsail]

The thing is this, Covid is not going to magically disappear, it is going to be around and stay around, so you want the world to shut down and remain shut down forever? I mean that is one way to tank the economy even further but it's not realistic. The longer this goes on, they wonder why you have a high proportion (At least in the US) who are hesitant to take the vaccine and if they see that in the long run, it's not effective, that's not a good selling point for trying to get more people vaccinated.

I agree. There are so many officials and pundits that keep stepping on the message about vaccination. They tell folks that vaccination is essential and life saving in one breath, and then in the next tell people that they need to wear masks if they are vaccinated. It sends a muddled message. So far, the evidence seems to be clear. Vaccines work. They prevent serious illness and death from COVID. They greatly reduce the odds of transmission. The CDC has made this clear. Stick to the science and the message. Don’t let alarmists create policies that contradict the science and message. Otherwise, you just feed the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists.

Finally, I don’t really get the point of putting limitations on vaccinated people to protect people that refuse to get vaccinated. Someone needs to explain this to me. Vaccinated people are not a COVID risk to anyone. Again, we are talking about adults who made a decision to not get vaccinated. As for children that can’t get vaccinated, people need to look at the data. The odds that a vaccinated person is going to infect a child is incredibly low. Furthermore, the number of children killed by COVID is incredibly small. Follow the science and the data. See below from the CDC (blue bars show percentage of US deaths by age group). Under 18 y.o. is essentially zero.

 

[mikethemartian]

I know this will spark outrage, but as long as half the US refuses to vaccinate, we should be shutting things down again anyway. Our response has been pathetic. Can you imagine us responding to the world wars this way? Having the tools at our disposal to defeat a common enemy and doing so little about it. The UK, as well, has been terrible.

There has been no long term planning. Our success and failure have been at the mercy of the pharmaceutical industry, which have been a godsend and the only part of this that have worked, and then we reject the gift. So we have to make alternative plans because this virus will keep mutating and the vaccines will keep getting weaker in their effect.

I say shut down the retail stores, as well. Delta is percolating in more people than we know including the vaccinated, mutating.

This is now a long term problem and it requires cohesiveness. Global vaccination. What an embarrassment that we can't even vaccinate the country where the vaccine is most available.

I doubt Apple backed down as much from the original letter's complaint as they did from the health reality that everyone is facing. But they should do the right thing and shutter the retail stores for all their employees then.

The problem with shutting things down again is that it forces people who got fully vaccinated to accommodate those who refuse to. Assuming they live in a country where the vaccine is readily available, if a percentage of the population doesn’t want to get the vaccine then they should let the chips fall where they may. It isn’t the same as last year when there was no vaccine available or earlier this year when the vaccine was short in supply. The only allowance I would make is for the people who would get vaccinated but can’t because of some other medical condition.

 

[btrach144]

The number of people here who don’t work for Apple yet gravely care about where Apple employees work is concerning. Get a grip

 

[Mainsail]

The number of people here who don’t work for Apple yet gravely care about where Apple employees work is concerning. Get a grip

Well, in fairness, there are millions of people that are now facing a very similar set of pending corporate policies and decisions by their employers. So, they broadly care about this issue and feel compelled to comment. I don’t see why that is strange or out of bounds.

 

[jjudson]

No one is owed an Apple job. If the job doesn't suit an employee's expectations, they are free to market their skills and experience to another place who does. With an Apple tattoo, it shouldn't be that difficult...

 

[atomwork]

So, retail employees are allowed to get breathed on by thousands of people a day, but the precious folks at Apple Park cant deal with a few wasp breaths from their coworkers. Elitist scum.

No one in the design industry wants to go back to the office. I work freelance for many large agencies and they all struggle getting employees back into work. The freedom gained in 2020 far outreaches the need to go back. We as designers, developers, 3d artists etc can perfectly do efficient zoom meetings.

 

[mikethemartian]

this.

I just don’t get where everyone’s heads at regarding lockdowns and vaccines. In January everyone was locked down and we had over a 1000 deaths a day.

now we have 60,000 people in football stadiums and every single shop / pub / restaurant open yet we are seeing 50 deaths a day maybe?

cant people do the maths and see how vaccines have allowed people to be out and about without 1000s a day dying?

it’s all basic maths. Had we not had lockdown how on earth could we have stopped thousands of people unnecessarily dying without a vaccine being available?

look at India and Brazil to see some of the effects of this without finding a way to distance people. At least half of the U.K. has been working from home for a year or more. Do people not understand how much that has saved people’s lives?

the one thing I remember about last March is that people were wearing masks and avoiding people way before The government in the U.K. mandated anything. When they are scared they don’t care what the government says or recommends. The same will happen if this gets worse. People will do what they need to do.

Without the vaccines we would still be near the beginning of the pandemic. Otherwise it wouldn’t even begin to subside until 50% of the population was infected because of the exponential nature of transmission curve and that only when it passed halfway would it start to run out of new hosts.

 

[jk73]

That is ridiculous!

We tried this last summer. People like you said the very same thing. All the old and vulnerable people are dead and we should open up. So we did in the summer and steadily it got worse and worse until December where we had to lock down again because we were back to 100s and then over a thousand deaths a day!

And then after lockdown with very minimal people jabbed, in Feb the daily numbers started to reduce. And then when we got to march/April it was evident that as the lockdowns gradually relaxed the numbers of dead stayed low because the vaccine was protecting people who would normally have gone to hospital.

Right now the original variant seems to have disappeared in the UK and the majority of cases are of the delta variant. So they may end reformulating it. But it is offering some protection against the worst effects as society is more or less open yet the numbers are relatively low.

I hate it when people cant do basic maths or logic.

As I said before, if you are right, what is happening with Brazil and India?
You make zero sense.

You hate it “when people can’t do basic maths”?

Physician, heal thyself.

The average age of a COVID death is ~83. There was never any reason to shut down the world rather than shut down the nursing homes and tell older people to stay home.

Without the vaccines we would still be near the beginning of the pandemic. Otherwise it wouldn’t even begin to subside until 50% of the population was infected because of the exponential nature of transmission curve and that only when it passed halfway would it start to run out of new hosts.

Pure nonsense. COVID had already killed the most vulnerable people before the vaccines became available. That’s why deaths are low now, and will remain low.

 

[blacktape242]

Today is Day 495 of “15 days to bend the curve,” so vitriol and bitterness are more than reasonable.

exactly, i'm well over it.

 

[Mousse]

Buying time to decide which employee to play hardball with and which to allow free reign. Seems at least Timmy is willing to talk, the consumate business man. It's nice to see he's not a hardass management type who adheres strictly to the letter of the law.
Stay strong Apple employees.

 

[jk73]

That isn't true anymore, I was very worried when they said that in yesterday's press conference, then at around 8:30PM Vallance made a Twitter, not a press release, a Twitter about how he was totally wrong and that 60% of those in U.K. hospitals with Covid are NOT vaccinated. So he got millions worried because he made a huge mistake

COVID-19: Vallance corrects mistake to say 60% of people being admitted to hospital with coronavirus are unvaccinated

Earlier, Sir Patrick Vallance told a news conference 60% of coronavirus-related hospital admissions were double-jabbed people - but he later corrected himself.

www.google.co.uk

IMO a mistake like that deserved a press release but hey ho.

You were worried when the number was 60% but you’re not worried now that the number is “only” 40%?

 

[jk73]

Wow, salty much?

Entitled much? The idea that a “worker empowerment” movement should begin with six-figure tech workers is just absurd.