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cvaldes

macrumors 68040
Dec 14, 2006
3,237
0
somewhere else
The invention of a typewriter was huge. It can't be compared to patents "like this one".
The concept of the typewriter was never novel. Not only are you wrong, but you used a terrible analogy.
roadbloc is correct.

The movable type printing press was far more impactful to the world as a whole. The typewriter only generates one copy at a time.

The movable type printing press allows for mass scale reproduction in a configurable, compact device. Compare this to the previous method: laborious manuscript duplication by hand. Banks and banks of desks with copyists and illuminators copying each page one by one (where errors could easily be introduced if the copyist wasn't fluent in the language of the original manuscript).

A typewriters improve legibility however errors can be introduced into each copy. If thirty typists each copy the same document, it is likely that you will get thirty slightly different versions, with subtle errors in different places in each.

Before the Nineties, when high schools still taught typing, that was the standard test. All the students in the class copy the same work. Speed was prized, but points were deducted off the score for typographically or style errors (like wrong margins, forgetting to indent paragraphs, etc.).

The typewriter analogy was indeed the wrong one to pick.
 
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surma884

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2011
109
0
Nevertheless, that is the system that is in place. Thus, if Apple doesn't apply for this patent, someone else will.

Exactly, that is why the patent office should reject patents like these. So even if one company doesn't apply for the patent, if another one tries to they will just get turned down. This way no one gets a stupid patent.
 

ToomeyND

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2011
563
378
Or are you suggesting that the typewriter has existed since the Big Bang?

Don't be ridiculous. If you flip open your kid's illustrated bible, you will see the typewriter sitting there behind the fig tree in the Garden of Eden. God put it there.

Is there some design/implementation innovation here? Or are they just patenting a business idea?

You nailed it here. This, unfortunately, is what the software patents have come to.
 

mrgraff

macrumors 65816
Apr 18, 2010
1,089
837
Albuquerque
The TSA can barely figure out X-rays, much less ID information stored on phones.

I remember the first time I printed out a boarding pass at home, and I thought that there was no way that would really work. Next month, I'm going to try using my new iPad ... crossing fingers.:)
 

Puevlo

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2011
633
1
Soon we won't be able to fly a plane without overlord Apple giving the go ahead. Someone needs to shut down this abomination of a company now.
 

bergert

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2008
263
149
I guess you forgot ...

Don't understand why patents like these are given. What a screwed up system.

A patent troll called LODSYS (a shell of a venture-capital firm financed with money from Microsoft's profits) was suing developers because iTunes uses a one-click patent. Microsoft and Apple had already PAID for this dubious patent, so the lawyers were seeking other targets:

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/1...sue-app-store-developers-over-purchase-links/

If this is not the definition of a screwed system ? And we, as users pay for this, because this is the "cost of doing business" for Microsoft and Apple. So yes, they better patent everything "new" and "novel" - in detail.
 

ToomeyND

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2011
563
378
roadbloc is correct.

The movable type printing press was far more impactful to the world as a whole. The typewriter only generates one copy at a time.

The movable type printing press allows for mass scale reproduction in a configurable, compact device. Compare this to the previous method: laborious manuscript duplication by hand. Banks and banks of desks with copyists and illuminators copying each page one by one (where errors could easily be introduced if the copyist wasn't fluent in the language of the original manuscript).

This makes no sense. Just because it wasn't the MOST important invention in its "field" does not make it commonplace. That is like saying toasters were not novel because we had ovens.
 

Navdakilla

macrumors 65816
Feb 3, 2011
1,100
13
Canada
Their is nothing specific or unique about anything that this software is doing, its general software that uses data from other sources... that's done every day by thousands of apps.... this is going to clog up courts when another company does the same thing using a link in an email from united airlines or something that takes you to their portal and loads a ticket in their app or something... its insane that this gets a patent. Absolutely no new ideas presented at all.

Exactly.
Not a fan of this.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
I suspect for this to do what it says, the app is simply the consumer facing aspect. The process of employing it will disclose your details to TSA or whatever from an already trusted server with the ID info that was long since added to that server by someone TSA approves.

Rocketman
 

Bezetos

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2012
739
0
far away from an Apple store
Singling out Apple is very close to trolling in light of the fact that Apple does not submit the most patent applications.

The patent system is massively screwed up, but it certainly isn't Apple's fault. Like everyone else, they have to play the game with the existing rules otherwise a competitor will play by the rules and use them against Apple.

Note that the US Constitution (Article 1, Section 8) defines the ability for the state to protect ideas and inventions. The first US patent was granted a year later in 1790. The US patent system dutifully took applications for 186 years before Apple was formed as a company.

Other countries have similar laws protecting inventions, so scrapping the US patent system is not a final solution.

Apple is currently the main patent "agressor". I am not singling out Apple, but we are talking about Apple here and they have certainly abused the system a lot. Moreover the argument stating that "a competitor will apply for that patent and use it against Apple" does not apply here considering that Apple is aggressively using obvious patents to attack competitors.

What's important is that we are talking about software patents. The debate usually questions whether patents can be applied to software just like they are applied to other fields. It is important that one can protect inventions, however the use of the word "invention" in regards to software seems too liberal.

Other countries have similar laws, however the US patent system seems to be one of the worst systems. Europe hasn't got even remotely similar laws when it comes to software patents. In fact, article 52 EPC excludes "programs for computers" from patentability (Art. 52(2)) to the extent that a patent application relates to a computer program "as such" (Art. 52(3)). This means that software can be patented if it solves a technical problem, not a business one. This drastically reduces the number of obvious patents.

----------

Nevertheless, that is the system that is in place. Thus, if Apple doesn't apply for this patent, someone else will.
That would sound okay if Apple applied for patents to protect themselves. However they apply for obvious patents to attack competition and gain monopoly. This is wrong, they are fuelling this madness.
 

cvaldes

macrumors 68040
Dec 14, 2006
3,237
0
somewhere else
That would sound okay if Apple applied for patents to protect themselves. However they apply for obvious patents to attack competition and gain monopoly. This is wrong, they are fuelling this madness.
Again, if Apple did not file patent applications, their competitors would anyhow. It's not like Apple is going to roll over and play dead. And neither are their competitors.

Everyone is playing on the same field. It's messed up, for sure, but tossing the US Patent Office into the rubbish bin wouldn't help anyone. It would certainly give an advantage to those filing patents outside of the United States of America (which is what, maybe 330 million people).

I don't know of the best way to fix it, but it would have to be at the international level and affect all players.
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
Simple fact.
Without patents no one will invent anything. Because there'd be no way to prevent others ripping off their work. So in this spirit I'm glad Apple got their patent for this.
 

Bezetos

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2012
739
0
far away from an Apple store
Again, if Apple did not file patent applications, their competitors would anyhow. It's not like Apple is going to roll over and play dead. And neither are their competitors.

Everyone is playing on the same field. It's messed up, for sure, but tossing the US Patent Office into the rubbish bin wouldn't help anyone. It would certainly give an advantage to those filing patents outside of the United States of America (which is what, maybe 330 million people).

I don't know of the best way to fix it, but it would have to be at the international level and affect all players.
Again, they are actively attacking other companies with patents, so they're not applying for them just to protect themselves. There is no excuse.
 

rnizlek

macrumors 6502
Mar 31, 2004
335
176
Washington, DC
Singling out Apple is very close to trolling in light of the fact that Apple does not submit the most patent applications.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the above commenters singled out Apple for anything patent related. They criticized the USPO for granting the patent. And I don't think anyone is considering scrapping the US patent system (well, perhaps some are). Most are merely advocating reform, which I think would be valuable.
 

Mattie Num Nums

macrumors 68030
Mar 5, 2009
2,834
0
USA
Funny seeing how Apple is years late to the NFC party. I guess the old method of joining the party and then claiming you started it works for some and not others.
 

JangoFett124

macrumors regular
Jul 16, 2002
176
15
Everyone makes a big deal about NFC payment systems... and I just don't see it as becoming HUGE like everyone makes it out to be... the potential for fraud and theft just seems a little too high... even if there is a fool proof way of securing your devices... with people still suffering from ID theft on a daily basis... I just do not see the mass public seeing past the potential for fraud and flocking to embrace yet another way for thieves and scum bags to steal money from you yet AGAIN...

Having a password-protected and encrypted payment system is a lot more secure than carrying around a piece of paper or card where the information is out in the open.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
The concept of the typewriter was never novel. Not only are you wrong, but you used a terrible analogy.

Uh ?

A.D. 1714 . . . . No. 395.

MILL.
Machine for Transcribing Letters

ANNE, by the Grace of God, &c. To all to whom these preseents shall come, greeting: Whereas Our Trusty and welbeloved Henry Mill, gent., hath by his petitcon humbly represented vnto Vs, That he hath by his great study and paines & expence invented and brought to perfection an artificial machine or method for impressing or transcribing of letters, one after another, as in writing, whereby all writing whatsoever may be engrossed in paper or parchment so neat and exact as not to be distinguished from print; that the said machine or method may be of great use in settlements and publick recors, the impression being deeper and more lasting than any other writing, and not to be erased or counterfeited without manifest discovery.

From Letters Patent - Rolls Chapel.

Seemed pretty novel and deserving of a patent in 1714. Of course, not that this proves Apple using NFC tech for airline boarding passes (when it's been used for train tickets in Japan for a while) is deserving of a patent.

I think I should start an iSportingEvent patent, whereby I patent a system for online reservation and NFC ticket presentation through a mobile device for any and all sporting events at special electronic ticket reading counters. I could then do the iConcert Patent...

It's just an online reservation app with NFC based electronic tickets. This is obvious use of the NFC tech and has prior art in other domains. Dunno why it was granted. Though the story is light on details, maybe there is something novel and non-obvious in the actual patent's claims.

----------

roadbloc is correct.

The typewriter analogy was indeed the wrong one to pick.

Except for the Henry Mill patent circa 1714 completely destroying both your and roadbloc's point.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Again, if Apple did not file patent applications, their competitors would anyhow.

And the USPTO should not be granting these patents based on obviousness and prior art. Not to Apple, not to anyone else. But of course, without the actual claims, we do not know what this patent covers. If it only covers Apple's particular method of doing online reservation/electronic boarding passes, and not competing implementation' methods of such a system, then there might be something novel and non-obvious in this patent that other systems lack.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,682
10,517
Austin, TX
I remember the first time I printed out a boarding pass at home, and I thought that there was no way that would really work. Next month, I'm going to try using my new iPad ... crossing fingers.:)

Boarding passes on iPhone are pretty amazing. Problem is I had to screen lock my phone because the woman working the machine kept flipping it around.
 

Nungster

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2011
189
11
WTF, how are patents given for this!!! The patent office screws up once again!! They will give a patent for just about anything. I want a Patent for typing the letter U after the letter F.

3M has a patent for applying glue to paper via a roller. Anyone wanting to make a sticky pad will need to spray the glue. Trust me, seems simple but it isn't. Seems obvious, but they have a patent on it. They also patented the yellow used.

Also I recall someone patenting a peanut butter jelly sandwich.

Point being, It is not just Apple, and there is more to this patent. they have come out in great detail as to the process by which the app and the peripherals will work.

----------

has anyone noticed the 1984 aspect of the patent?

photo, retinal scan & fingerprint?

I think they omitted the dna sample

The 1984 aspect of the plan happened when you need to identify yourself as a passenger about to take a trip to a predetermined location and having to share it with the airline industry. Note when you reserve a flight, it is registered in a national database as ALL flights and passengers are. There is a company here in Tampa that aggregates flight reservation data, and have been doing it for a long time. You my friend are only seeing as far as you wish to see.
 

rendevouspoo

macrumors regular
Jul 3, 2012
235
2
Again, if Apple did not file patent applications, their competitors would anyhow.

Like who, for instance? This patent thing is getting way out of hand. I've witnessed (whether they actually did or not, I have no idea) people from this very forum change from Apple to another product due to litigation thuggery on Apples behalf.
 

swagi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 6, 2007
905
123
So...just out of curiosity...

...can anyone tell me why this patent differs from anything deployed over SouthEast Asia?
 
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