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Apple Working on Software Fix to Avoid U.S. Apple Watch Import Ban

adamw said:
Change the algorithms and patented methods used to avoid patent infringement. Apple will do everything it can to keep selling the Apple Watch, after investing so much in the product's intellectual property over the years.
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Apple no longer selling the Apple Watch is not even a topic of conversation. It would just need to remove the blood oxygen related feature, or find another way of providing it. I imagine they will find a way around it.

Meanwhile, they should just buy Masimo haha, yeah yeah yeah Masimo would be expensive. Lighten up, folks.
 
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rjp1 said:
Pay up - you have the money.
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It's not just a question of 'having the money." It also has to do with the amount Masimo wants. If apple can't find a workaround, they will most likely have to pay whatever Masimo wants.
 
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iJulio said:
I find that the oxygen sensor isn’t very accurate in the ultra. I’ve tested it several times with an actual pulse oximeter and the Apple Watch was always off 2 to 3 units which is significant if you’re measuring for hypoxemia.
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I think one needs to know what the device is designed to do. In this case, Apple notes: “Measurements taken with the Blood Oxygen app are not intended for medical use and are only designed for general fitness and wellness purposes.” Hypoxemia is a medical condition not a general fitness or wellness use.

How to use the Blood Oxygen app on Apple Watch - Apple Support

The Blood Oxygen app can allow you to measure the oxygen level of your blood on-demand directly from your wrist, providing you with insights into your overall wellness.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
 
4nNtt said:
Masimo’s patents all seem pretty trivial. Stuff like putting a cover over a sensor to block light. An oxygen sensor literally just looks at how red your blood is with a light sensor. Less red, less oxygen. That part can’t even be patented because the technology is 50 years old. I wonder if Apple is switching to analyzing sensor data with Neural Engine instead of more straightforward approaches.
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The original patent is 40+ years old but even then it was more sophisticated than that. The challenge is measuring arterial blood saturation versus venous. The original patent included measuring two wavelengths of light and using their ratio. Also my understanding (not an expert here) is that the insight was to measure only during the pulse.

While today's pulse ox are more sophisticated than what was possible in the 70s and 80s, the invention has been. credited with a 90% reduction in anesthesia-related fatalities (i.e. literally thousands of lives per year):

Point is you are vastly understating someone else's invention and writing off as trivial what was a significant invention. That patent has of course expired now and whether Masimo's improvements are worthy of new patents a different story. It would seem though that evaluating each company's improvements on the original would be better left to someone who understood both the original technology and how it is used to appreciate the significance and novelty of the improvements.
 
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Introducing the all-new Apple Watch Nerf Edition. We think you're going to love it!

nerf.png


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msackey said:
I think one needs to know what the device is designed to do. In this case, Apple notes: “Measurements taken with the Blood Oxygen app are not intended for medical use and are only designed for general fitness and wellness purposes.” Hypoxemia is a medical condition not a general fitness or wellness use.

How to use the Blood Oxygen app on Apple Watch - Apple Support

The Blood Oxygen app can allow you to measure the oxygen level of your blood on-demand directly from your wrist, providing you with insights into your overall wellness.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
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Yes they have to say that or the risk the being declared a medical device which would then require pre-clearance by the FDA (which would then include submitting test data -- possibly from clinical trials -- to demonstrate the quality and limitations of its measurements).

With that disclaimer and general context, the FDA considered measuring blood oxygenation with devices like the Apple Watches (and almost any pulse ox you'll find at CVS, etc which probably use the exact same language) some sort of entertainment. Kind of like seeing how high you can jump or how many pushups you can do.
 
CWallace said:
To those saying "just buy them", Masimo's current market cap is USD 6 billion and Apple would have to pay a multi-billion premium over that. The company's products are also exclusively commercial in nature and are used in hospitals and other medical facilities (though they are preparing to enter the consumer market with a smartwatch).
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So Maximo is planning to release an Apple Watch competitor, and they’ve been accusing Apple of stealing their tech…..I’ve been open to Masimo’s claims so far, but this is interesting. Hm. Incentives.
 
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canadianreader said:
Why don't they just pay for the patent ?
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If true, it definitely sounds like an admission that they employed patented tech. The engineers that brought the tech, likely under an NDA, should suffer the consequences.

Pay for the patents, and employ non-violating tech next year.

Patent law is currently broken.
 
This “ban” affects models sold after 12/21… it was stated that already purchased models are not subject to the ban . So they are going to nerf it for everyone (including those who are not affected) ??
 
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Thats just like Apple, Lol. We know we might be violating a patent, but lets get in all the Christmas sales we can first. Sales should have been halted immediately.
 
CarAnalogy said:
Read the background on this. They had multiple meetings with Apple. Apple convinced them to show them a lot of tech. They acted interested in licensing it. Then they cut all communication and did it themselves.

Apple has done this many times before. Usually they get away with it. I’m generally no fan of patents but it seems shady.
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Who knows, but that isn’t what is on trial. It is the physical shape of the sensor and layout of components. Nothing about the algorithm or employee poaching. The patents on trial are similar to how Apple patented the iPhone then Samsung copied it. These are cosmetic patents.
 
iJulio said:
I find that the oxygen sensor isn’t very accurate in the ultra. I’ve tested it several times with an actual pulse oximeter and the Apple Watch was always off 2 to 3 units which is significant if you’re measuring for hypoxemia.
Click to expand...

What was the pulse oximeter you used as reference? Unless it was medical grade, it could be that that one was actually the less accurate device. There's wide variation in the ones you can pickup at your typical CVS. And also note that even medical grade models can be +-3%.

Note that a lot of devices these days like to report things with far more precision than they are accurate. Starting with thermometers. Depending on the device and where you take the temperature your results can vary by several degrees F. Then take our common standard of human body temperature as 98.6 deg F. The original target was 36 deg C and was specified as a distribution. The 3rd digit of precision comes from converting 36 deg C to F...

When it comes to the human body not everything can be measured as precisely as we're used to and even then it's not always clear when the extra precision has meaning given wide variation in "normal".

FYI, here's the specs on Massimo's medical grade model:
 
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thmsnt said:
Apple better not nerf my Ultra or it will be the last Apple Watch (and maybe product) I ever buy.
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oh please, stop being a drama queen...I mean really - my blood oxygen is usually 95% or 96% 99.9999% of the time I check. Real useful...
 
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coolfactor said:
If Maximo does release a direct Apple Watch competitor, that should nullify the patent dispute.
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Misread this the first time. However, why would Masimo releasing a wearable (watch, etc) nullify the patent dispute? If Masimo invented a better way to continuously monitor Sp02, etc why should Apple get to copy it for their watch just because Masimo also released a watch?
 
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For those of you saying “Apple should just pay up or buy the patents”

Those patents are worth 8b. If they bought them, Apple would be charged 30b because Masimo knows apple has the money. Same with licensing, Masimo would charge an arm & the leg.
 
kc9hzn said:
Particularly in California, where both companies are based out of. California has very broad anti-noncompete clauses in its rule books (to the point where California claims to be able to regulate noncompete clauses between California companies and non-California employees). The legislation in question also criminalizes no-poaching clauses.
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for a country all about freedom this seems pretty ****ing stupid. (not that i personally think its wrong)
 
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