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Maybe Apple could just charge developers for app distribution based on the operating costs of the App Store - just like you do with your product.
There are no rules stating that companies cannot make profits. There is no upper limit to the margins a company can take in for their products/services.

Spotify (and friends) are more than welcome to develop their own phones and app stores so that they can cut Apple out, but they don't have the right (with current laws in every free market) to force Apple to change its policies when it benefits them. They signed up for (and became absurdly wealthy from) the App Store model on iOS.
 
Now imagine that you are Spotify with $10 billion in revenue. In Apple’s fantasy world they are entitled to $3 billion for hosting an app?
That's a fantasy as well. You're ignoring all the people that sign up for Spotify outside of an iOS app. Apple gets nothing for them. They just want a commission if you sign up through an iOS app.

Spotify is free to spend advertising dollars telling people to sign up on the Spotify website. They can eliminate IAP altogether. Or they can pay Apple. Obviously, paying Apple is the better value.
 
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Maybe Apple could just charge developers for app distribution based on the operating costs of the App Store - just like you do with your product.
Any company that charges based on their costs instead of what the consumers are willing to pay is leaving money on the table.
 
Another easy solution would be to simply remove all dating apps from the Netherlands store. When the local people complain, tell them to talk to their regulators about common sense. Apple created their APP store and it has delivered apps and functioned very well. Now there are upstarts that do not want to front any money but still profit off of Apples considerable investments. I believe their is a farm term for this......
It won’t work; Facebook and Google tried to do similar against Australia and the international condemnation was swift. Apple wouldn’t gain anything long term and it would galvanize nations and regional blocs to impose regulations.
 
Still Apple. They did not comply sufficiently. They chose an overly complicated and burdensome solution and were told to do better, and have yet to revise their plan adequately.
"sufficiently"? "told to do better"? Translation: Apple implemented a solution to the problem that was described to them, as requested, and the commission is unhappy that they didn't get the solution they wanted but rather only one that fits the parameters they set forth.

The commission should have done a better job of precisely defining the requirements. It makes it appear as though they had additional hidden requirements that they were reluctant to put in writing.

If I told you that you had to build a fence around your property, and you built a fence, and then I came back and said, "no, I wanted it taller, and a little to the left, and made out of bamboo and painted green - you have to tear it down and build it over again" (putting the blame on you rather than on my vague demand that left out details that I wanted), you'd have every right to complain. It doesn't matter how reasonable or unreasonable the hidden requirements are, if they're hidden, that's a problem.
 
No. The Spotify thing isn't meant to be a general purpose device -- it's specifically a Spotify Premium consumption device.
So if Apple were to shutter the App Store, and only allow for its own branded services on its devices, that would be OK?
 
It’s not the words or methods that matters, it’s the intent of such.
But doesn't the multiple sku requirement have a practical purpose that should prevail over the intent? This policy applies to one country. By requiring a separate sku (that can otherwise be identical and compiled 100% the same as the second sku in all other aspects), Apple is more capable of making sure that the code that applies to the single country doesn't get run in all the others by limiting distribution of that single APK.

So if Apple were to shutter the App Store, and only allow for its own branded services on its devices, that would be OK?

Isn't that how iPhones worked until the iPhone 3G? And before they opened the App Store in 2008, customers had the same options that they would today under that scenario: (a) use only the branded / preinstalled apps on the device, or (b) root and sideload apps (and accept the security risks that come with that) from third-party app stores (at the time, mostly Cydia).
 
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No. The Spotify thing isn't meant to be a general purpose device -- it's specifically a Spotify Premium consumption device.
I could just as easily claim that the iPhone isn't meant to be a general purpose device - it's specifically an iOS and App Store consumption device.
 
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So if Apple were to shutter the App Store, and only allow for its own branded services on its devices, that would be OK?
No need to shutter the App Store. Spotify plays music from it's contractual partners. Why can't Apple run apps from it's contractual partners?
 
I just want to find a calculator app that doesn't have ads or in app purchases. I'm even willing to pay a few dollars for the app, if it's decent and without ads or in-app purchases.
Buy PCalc (App Store link) and be done with it. It's all the calculator that most people will ever need. Highly recommended. It's been around forever (20+ years), and gets updated as needed (several times a year). Pay once and you're done (it does have some IAP, but only to allow you to literally give the developer a tip if you want, with no demands to do so - it doesn't unlock anything, it's just if you're feeling extra happy). There's also a Lite version, if you want to try it out (free with IAP to buy the various bits), but I'd recommend just getting the full paid-upfront version. And there's a Mac version too, if you're interested.

But yeah, the search system in the App Store is bad. I don't generally use it. I find apps recommended other places (like on websites or podcasts I trust), and follow links from there (or the developer's website) into the App Store, so I land on the right page.
 
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I could just as easily claim that the iPhone isn't meant to be a general purpose device - it's specifically an iOS and App Store consumption device.
I wasn't contrasting with the iPhone, I was responding to the question about Spotify allowing Apple Music on their hardware.

I'm in complete agreement that Apple owns iOS and App Store and should be allowed to dictate their own rules in a free market economy.
 
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You do realize there are a whole bunch of service apps that exist currently and don't pay that 30% or even 27%.

Yes - "reader" apps.

However, those are currently defined as software that displays outside content on iOS, including previously purchased videos, music, magazines, newspapers and books.

Apple appears to not consider these dating apps to be "reader" apps since they have not offered to expand the "reader" app option to include them.

Therefore, if Apple were to grant dating apps an exemption from the current IAP rule via a different mechanism, even if they did so in such a way that only dating apps would be eligible, they could be laying the groundwork for future legal challenges by other categories of non-"reader" app that would refer back to the dating app exemption as precedent.
 
What are you talking about? The "letter of the law" works the same way in Europe as in the US.

What's different is that there is a slightly higher chance the legislature might actually change an insufficient law, especially if doing so protects European companies against non-European ones.
What are you even talking about? It’s not like European companies are not getting fined.
A quick example do a search on how many companies and entities were fined over just GDPR.
Another example here in Italy, the AGCOM (I guess the equivalent of the FCC) has been keeping the major careers from screwing consumer over with 28days billing periods instead of the standard month aka 30 days and many many more times.

But I guess Telecom Italia it’s an American company /s
 
I could just as easily claim that the iPhone isn't meant to be a general purpose device - it's specifically an iOS and App Store consumption device.
I think you'd have to be pretty crazy to argue that, since Apple has long advertised how powerful their phones are and how they can do just about anything. You'd have about as much luck there as you would arguing that a Camry isn't a car.
 
The issue is you are forced to use their store on the device you purchased and have no alternative ways to install applications outside of the Apple App Store.
Your first mistake was spending hundreds or thousands of dollars (or equivalent) to buy an iPhone without first doing any research to understand the app ecosystem that it offered. You're not forced to do anything here other than dealing with the results of your own choices.

If one of your needs in a phone was alternative ways to install apps, you seem to have missed the entire existence of the Android ecosystem - a glaring error on your part - it would have offered exactly what you want.

It's similar to buying an electric car and then complaining that you're forced to plug it in and that there's no way to put gasoline into it at a gas station.
 
So if Apple were to shutter the App Store, and only allow for its own branded services on its devices, that would be OK?
Wasn’t that Apple’s original plan? Apple didn’t want an App Store, it created one because devs did. Having third party apps on iPhone but they are controlled by Apple is the compromise position.
 
If it saves them from being forced to offer third-party In App Purchasing payment processing worldwide, they'd pay it in a heartbeat.
The problem then, of course, would be dozens of countries lining up to do the same thing, not caring about the App Store at all, but, hey, free half-billion Euros.
 
It's similar to buying an electric car and then complaining that you're forced to plug it in and that there's no way to put gasoline into it at a gas station.

Not a great comparison

It'd be more like "you can only charge it at X stations/locations/plugs" due to a manufacturer imposed restriction, specifically to benefit the manufacturer.

We already know that "sourcing electricity for your EV" (getting iPhone Apps elsewhere) works just fine (self signed, corporate signing, etc) -- Apple is locking that access down for their own business reasons.

...then claiming "only electricity from them is safe" (only iOS Apps through their channel are safe)
 
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I think you'd have to be pretty crazy to argue that, since Apple has long advertised how powerful their phones are and how they can do just about anything. You'd have about as much luck there as you would arguing that a Camry isn't a car.
My statement doesn't imply that iPhones aren't powerful or that they can't do just about anything. It just implies that the label "general purpose device" is arbitrary. Apps and music both just digital content.
 
Yep they are free to leave, but its still apples software.
Only their original copy of the software. But this is about their AppStore policy so it’s up for scrutiny as any store.
Which is why the method of delivery is going to be the subject of a court challenge.
Method of delivery? How is it upp for challenge when the courts already ruled against Apple’s complaints and ruled the ACMs requirement as legitimate.

US judges and lawyers have vastly different roles and procedures. Compared to USA.

  • Pre-trial pleadings
  • Pleadings
  • Production of Evidence (Discovery)
  • Trial
  • Appeal

Pre-trial Pleadings​

In the pre-trial pleadings phase the parties, without the involvement of the court, try to resolve the disputes between them. The parties make various requests, with letters or notices sent between them, where the parties attempt to substantiate their positions on the merits of the case. If the parties fail to reach a resolution the civil lawsuit process continues.
This is what EU tried and no agreement solution was found.

Pleadings​

The aggrieved party submits the complaint, with documentary evidence

In E.U. countries the burden of production of evidence (discovery) rests on the claimant/plaintiff, the party seeking the remedy

Trial/discovery​

The plaintiff has the burden of proof., however the plaintiff does not have the discovery rights.

There are no requests for production of documents, interrogatories or depositions. Documentary evidence is produced by the parties during the course of the litigation
To further substantiate then any evidence required has to be requested to the court.

The court further assesses the necessity for it and if deemed necessary then requests the opposing party to provide it in accordance with the law.

the judge will have looked over all evidence and paperwork submitted to the court and will guide the parties through the trial. The parties call witnesses and produce more evidence, which is relevant or important to the case . The judge generally acts in an investigatory role, seeking out the truth of the situation then applies the law.
As you can see EU judges are truth seekers, not neutral.

Appeal - the Fifth Step​

The appeal is a second stage litigation process
In the civil systems, an appellate court has plenary authority to review an inferior court's judgment, not only as to issues of law but also as to issues of fact.

The underlying civil-law theory regarding issues of fact traditionally has been that evidence is a legal science and that the strength of an item of evidence is governed by a set of rules.
In most civil case appeals in the U.S. the evidence on record is accepted as the fact finder (judge or jury) accepted them. That deference doesn’t happen in the E.U.
This is a very big importance that evidence provided is not assumed as factual.
An ordinary appeal, when a case is appealed every aspect of it is reconsidered and a new examination of the facts may take place if necessary. However, a court of cassation has limited freedom, especially where the facts are concerned. In cassation it is required by law to base its deliberations on the facts as established by the lower court and cassation would mean quashing a judicial decision on a point of law, including procedural law.

Now some highlights for you
In the E.U. it’s rare for a civil case to include use of expert witnesses. If there is such a witness he or she will be named by the judge to help determine the facts, not by a party to help put its case in a favorable light
Imagine not being allowed to use partisan witnesses. But impartial ones.


In the E.U. litigation system a judge is more a referee and the trial is a more investigative process. E.U. judges are also not strictly bound by case precedent and educated in their fields.

Compared to neutral US judges acting passively.

E.U. lawyers need to demonstrate that statutory law applies in the case for a particular fact so their role is more to advise, inform and point the judge in the right direction, and the procedure largely is in writing.

Compared to US lawyers trying to convince a jury/judge with debate and appeal to emotions.
 
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I think Apple can easily pay the fine and get away with it. They have the money for it. It's really not worth going over the regulations over dating apps.

Another good alternative. Apple can also easily pull the dating apps from the market and they don’t even have to deal with it.
Reminds me of a song - "I fought the law."

Poking the bee's nest doesn't work. Apple, isn't going to win with this strategy.
 
Apple executives are actually delusional enough to believe that they can continue flaunting the law and the regulators will just throw up their hands and say “well, that’s it we tried”. I can’t wait to see Tim’s smug mug at antitrust trials.
 
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