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Last I heard the Gamecube was second, beating out XBox. That may have changed back again by now. Also, common thought about consoles is that you always sell the hardware at a loss and make it back on game sales. The pricing of the Gamecube is definitely an attractive point. It's one of the factors that helped me decide on it over the PS2. The Gamecube has even come down in price since I bought it, but the PS2 has yet to reach the price I originally paid. Lower price = more hardware sales, and more loss. But more hardware sales = more game sales, which is more gain. It's a balancing act, and Nintendo seems to be do OK at it. Maybe not as well as they could, but they're OK.

a17inchFuture said:
And for those who think waiting for current supplys of PB G4's to sell out, etc. . . . ask Nintendo how the waiting strategy goes. They waited longer than sony and microsoft to perfect their next-gen console (which is now the gamecube, and look at where it got them: last place in a great market, a heavily reduced price (more than 50 percent chearper tha xbox or ps2) that must hurt net income greatly, and thrid-party suppliers that virtually cancel the making of their games on teh gamecube console as often as they make them.
 
captain kirk said:
Sorry to have to say this but I really think you will be disappointed. There will be one more G4 revision at 1.5Ghz before the powerbooks go G5. There is no point constantly whining about it though. You think Apple doesn't know that the world wants a G5 powerbook? If they could produce one right now that was viable then they would. You forget the serious implications of a rushed to market product that goes badly wrong, (think windows 98!!!!)

Anyway sorry to get the hump it just winds me up that every thread ends up talking about non existent G5 powerbooks!


P.S. you don't know what you're talking about . . . neither do I, for that matter, but they could be sitting in job's office right now. As we can tell from the xserves, they are having some probelms with the new 970FX processors, whether it be quantity or quality, so why are we to assume that that is NOT the only thing holding them up . . back in theday, everyone was sure it was only the processor heat holding it up, and now that thats no longer an issue, everyone seems to hav eforgottne that and made it out that Apple is having some massive problems with new tech, etc. . . . If apple is trying to release the g5pbook with some new technology, they should already just quite it. AS i pointed out in my nintendo post, waiting on tech, or innovating isn't always the smartest idea (business-wise), and I think they should be more concerned about catching up, then they should worry about new tech.

Leave the new tech for the next rev of g5 pbooks, the same way we are being led to believe they are leaving that tech for the rev. b (or c) towers.
 
Spades said:
Last I heard the Gamecube was second, beating out XBox. That may have changed back again by now. Also, common thought about consoles is that you always sell the hardware at a loss and make it back on game sales. The pricing of the Gamecube is definitely an attractive point. It's one of the factors that helped me decide on it over the PS2. The Gamecube has even come down in price since I bought it, but the PS2 has yet to reach the price I originally paid. Lower price = more hardware sales, and more loss. But more hardware sales = more game sales, which is more gain. It's a balancing act, and Nintendo seems to be do OK at it. Maybe not as well as they could, but they're OK.


Yeah, I think you are right, but the statement still holds true, because microsfot had built-in software providers, whereas nintendo didn't (or at least their's aren't that productive). The simple fac tis that nintendo HAD to drop their price becaus ehtey were losing money. Apple will be following post-suite, if they continue this crap marketing scheme they seem to love.
 
captain kirk said:
You forget the serious implications of a rushed to market product that goes badly wrong, (think windows 98!!!!)

Did you need the '98'? 😉
 
Macrumors said:
Apple announced that today it has now begun shipping the Xserve G5s which were announced in January.

The Xserve G5s were originally expected to ship in February, but were delayed for unclear reasons.

These newest machines from Apple utilize the new 90nm PowerPC 970FX (G5) processor from IBM.

So in other words, Steve went to bed last night saying with all the buzz, "we have to announce something, anything tomorrow."

Rocketman
 
PretendPCuser said:
wOOt! The IIci's are shipping?! WHOOOO-HOOOOOOO!

I am *so* buying one of those bad boys. My day just got a whole lot brighter. 🙄

Doh! I just got a IIcx. Should've waited! 😉 Talk about flashing back...what...15 years ago! 😱
 
a17inchFuture said:
P.S. you don't know what you're talking about . . . neither do I, for that matter, but they could be sitting in job's office right now. As we can tell from the xserves, they are having some probelms with the new 970FX processors, whether it be quantity or quality, so why are we to assume that that is NOT the only thing holding them up . . back in theday, everyone was sure it was only the processor heat holding it up, and now that thats no longer an issue, everyone seems to hav eforgottne that and made it out that Apple is having some massive problems with new tech, etc. . . . If apple is trying to release the g5pbook with some new technology, they should already just quite it. AS i pointed out in my nintendo post, waiting on tech, or innovating isn't always the smartest idea (business-wise), and I think they should be more concerned about catching up, then they should worry about new tech.

Leave the new tech for the next rev of g5 pbooks, the same way we are being led to believe they are leaving that tech for the rev. b (or c) towers.

So what you are really saying is that you would be quite happy for apple to release a G5 powerbook next week even if it meant a massive class action lawsuit from all the people who would burn their laps, a unit that may weigh 3.5 kg with a battery life of 45 minutes and that has logic board failure after 18 months, that my friend may be good publicity short term but it is bad business long term! pull your head out of the sand, they will release a G5 powerbook when it's good and ready. Look at how long it took to get a G4 in a laptop (around 18 months) and the G4 was/is by design an embedded chip not a server chip like the ppc970.
 
IIci one of the greatest Macs

I love recalling how I spent $3200+ on my IIci with an educational discount...
And the SHOCK of having to buy a monitor - all my other macs came with one!


*sigh*.... the good old days!




jsw said:
See, that's because Mac models used to change more frequently (well, no, not really - the ci was around forever). But now, even your children will know what a 2GHz G5 is, because it's what they'll be able to buy. 😉
 
a17inchFuture said:
And for those who think waiting for current supplys of PB G4's to sell out, etc. . . . ask Nintendo how the waiting strategy goes. They waited longer than sony and microsoft to perfect their next-gen console (which is now the gamecube, and look at where it got them: last place in a great market, a heavily reduced price (more than 50 percent chearper tha xbox or ps2) that must hurt net income greatly, and thrid-party suppliers that virtually cancel the making of their games on teh gamecube console as often as they make them.

Last time I checked, Nintendo turned a profit on the consoles market. Did Microsoft achieve the same thing? I think your analogy is not quite accurate here. Plus, most people (including me) bought a Nintendo GC just to play Nintendo endorsed Games.

Now, I don't think this applies to apple... Do you know anyone who wants to buy a mac just to use apple applications (iLife, GB, AWorks...) Oh wait... 😀
 
a17inchFuture said:
P.S. you don't know what you're talking about . . . neither do I, for that matter, but they could be sitting in job's office right now.

Or they could be sitting in an Apple R&D lab, while they work out all the issues that you never touch on. You can rail at the engineers for being incompetent all that you like, but I'm pretty sure that you couldn't create a 1" enclosure that holds all these technologies you seem to think are so amazingly easy to manage. For comparison, the PC world doesn't have a whole lot that can match the PowerBooks in style and power, and the ones that beat it on outright speed are battery-hogging and not even close to the same form factor.

As we can tell from the xserves, they are having some probelms with the new 970FX processors, whether it be quantity or quality, so why are we to assume that that is NOT the only thing holding them up . . back in theday, everyone was sure it was only the processor heat holding it up, and now that thats no longer an issue, everyone seems to hav eforgottne that and made it out that Apple is having some massive problems with new tech, etc. . . .

Wait... Who says that there isn't a problem with the 970FX? Last I heard, it's still running hotter than the G4, though it's at higher clock. A 2.0ghz G5 runs something like 25.4 watts, while a 1.4 7557 runs at, if I recall correctly, 12-16 watts. Sounds like a small difference, doesn't it? Well, add in the new ASIC, the faster hard drives you'd need to really make effective use of the bus, the faster RAM so that you can keep the pipe fed, the faster SuperDrive that everyone wants... We're talking about major wattage increases across the board, which means that they need some kind of new battery technology to keep it all running effectively, and that says nothing of trying to keep it all cool within something that is thinner than the Xserve and doesn't have the advantage of a wall power supply to run a cooling system that is constantly on in the device you're trying to compare it to.

So, we can have a performance-starved G5 laptop that wouldn't really do much more than the current G4, gets far less battery life, and burns the hell out of your lap, all while running like a leafblower, or we can wait a little while. My next computer is likely to be a 15" G5 PB, whenever they come out, but I would like them to be good, solidly engineered machiens, not a kludge job to appease people who have no patience.

Apple is a business, and they're trying to make money. They know they need to keep up. If you can't wait, I hear Centrinos are nice, on the other side of the fence.

If apple is trying to release the g5pbook with some new technology, they should already just quite it. AS i pointed out in my nintendo post, waiting on tech, or innovating isn't always the smartest idea (business-wise), and I think they should be more concerned about catching up, then they should worry about new tech.

You don't get it, do you? The whole thing is new technology. The motherboards could just be updated before, but these have to be built from the ground up, and it involves all kinds of technologies that Apple has never needed to fit into a laptop before. With a tower, you have room and options on cooling, but this is a different ballgame. I'd love to see a wattage chart for the old machines, and then a solid figure for the newer components, because I bet we're talking something on the order of a two or three fold increase in heat.

That's not simple to solve.
 
porovaara said:
A 2.0 wouldn't, correct.
Just to state the obvious, the thread concerns Xserve G5, and it only comes in the 2.0 GHz flavor. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted. No worries.
 
You don't get it, do you? The whole thing is new technology. The motherboards could just be updated before, but these have to be built from the ground up, and it involves all kinds of technologies that Apple has never needed to fit into a laptop before. With a tower, you have room and options on cooling, but this is a different ballgame. I'd love to see a wattage chart for the old machines, and then a solid figure for the newer components, because I bet we're talking something on the order of a two or three fold increase in heat.

That's not simple to solve.

I hope they solve it. I can't imagine how one could efficiently remove all this heat and keep machine quiet. Water cooling? 🙂 Do we talk about cars? Cars started with air cooling...

I don't want to get a hot laptop and I want to get G5 powerbook. It should be fast, quiet, reliable and the best in Mac tradition. Otherwise why don't I get PC laptop. This would be my first Mac... Oh, just need to be patient.

...
I also want to make sure that Microsoft releases its PC emulation for G5. I need to run some PC software.
 
thatwendigo said:
...I'd love to see a wattage chart for the old machines, and then a solid figure for the newer components, because I bet we're talking something on the order of a two or three fold increase in heat.

That's not simple to solve.

Which is, of course, why the new G5 PB's will come with the choice of either a built-in coffee mug warmer or a bagel pizza oven. 🙂

Seriously, though, you are of course right. The laws of thermodynamics don't really care too much that Apple needs to create G5 PB's soon.
 
a17inchFuture said:
P.S. you don't know what you're talking about . . . neither do I, for that matter, but they could be sitting in job's office right now.

Could be, but I doubt it. I think if they're sitting anywhere, they'd be in Apple's testing labs right now. If they WERE sitting in Jobs' office, I'd expect an announcement on their release fairly soon! There are so many issues that arise inherent in a new chip such as the G5, new technology for that chip (making it smaller), and then the redesign issues of a model, i.e. the complete redesign of the PowerBook to accommodate a G5, let alone all the updated hardware components in general, that it is not as simple and snapping one's fingers. 😉 These things take time, and when you're looking at implementing a new (hot!) chip in a laptop, bringing in a new motherboard, new hardware, and basically redesigning the whole thing from scratch, you want to take your time - unless you want to rush it to market and have a lot of unhappy Mac users with burnt laps returning them and suing Apple. Greatness takes time, so let's be patient with Apple on this and let them release a quality product when the time is right. I'm all for G5 PBs now, but I appreciate the effort that is going into their design and am patient - patience is a virtue. 😎 I'd like to see G5 iMacs, 3 GHz PMs, video iPods, and so on and so forth, yet I know these will all come in good time.
 
970FX

Let's hope this means that IBM is ramping up its 970FX production and we'll see this cooler and (hopefully) less expensive chip (and higher clocked versions of it) in other models soon... (new PowerMacs on March 30, anyone?)
 
bazad said:
I don't want to get a hot laptop and I want to get G5 powerbook. It should be fast, quiet, reliable and the best in Mac tradition. Otherwise why don't I get PC laptop. This would be my first Mac... Oh, just need to be patient.

...
I also want to make sure that Microsoft releases its PC emulation for G5. I need to run some PC software.

I think we all do, bazad, and that's why some of us are more than willing to give Apple the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the engineering of the PowerBooks. We've heard repeated calls for the 970 to go into the laptops, but I don't think that they're the best chips for the job. Some time ago, we had announcements of PowerPC 750vx chips, which would basically equate to a super-G4. They're faster per-clock, clocked higher (starting at 2.0ghz), lower heat (11 watts at 2ghz, as opposed to 20 at 1.4), and higher bus (400mhz). Rather than cramming a single hot chip into the laptops, I'd much rather see a dual 750vx machine, which would have less in the way of total redesign than the 970, because the pin structure and layout are the same as older 750s. You'd need a new ASIC and bus to control and feed it, but it would be a lot less heat-intensive than a G5, and also give the benefits of SMT in a laptop.

How cool would that be?

jsw said:
Which is, of course, why the new G5 PB's will come with the choice of either a built-in coffee mug warmer or a bagel pizza oven. 🙂

Can I make shark-fin bagel pizzas, to go with my shark-fin nachos? 😀

Oh, and Shard... You read my mind, man. Kudos!
 
Palad1 said:
Last time I checked, Nintendo turned a profit on the consoles market. Did Microsoft achieve the same thing? I think your analogy is not quite accurate here. Plus, most people (including me) bought a Nintendo GC just to play Nintendo endorsed Games.

Nintendo made money on the GameCube hardware as soon as it was released, at $200 (which was cheaper than the competition then, too). The amount they lose on each hardware sale is, they claim, "negligible." Microsoft was losing over $100 on each Xbox sold when they were first released at $300, and that hasn't changed much -- they've followed their own cost reductions with price reductions. They've also lost millions on the console in general, keeping their investors happy by saying that the Xbox is a trojan horse for future consoles (which, as Nintendo and Sega will tell you, doesn't exactly hold true in the game wars).

Nintendo is second in sales in the world, but is losing to Microsoft in the US by under a million consoles. But it's still making gobs of profit. Microsoft only keeps the Xbox alive by funding it from its other departments.
 
an SMP logic problem is another possibility

porovaara said:
I say it is probably Apple having problems with their own chipsets. Remember Apple is responsible for a large portion of the bus system. If they are shipping single procs now perhaps they are having trouble with the higher frequency bus on the 970fx with dual CPUs.

Shipping singles could also mean that there's a bug in the Apple chipset that only dual-CPU systems see. They're saving face by shipping some singles now....

It'll be nasty if the early singles can't be upgraded to duals. (Or does Apple even sell upgrades - all the dualie x86 1U systems that I've seen are field upgradeable to dual CPU, just plug in the second CPU (and maybe a VRM).)

Besides, the bus on the 2.0GHz Xserve runs a 1GHz, just like the bus on the 2.0GHz Power Mac.

Other than official support for simple ECC memory, there doesn't seem to be much difference between the architecture of the Power Mac and the Xserve.
 
a17inchFuture said:
.......
I have to say, I think Apple is really hurting there business alot. The more they wait for stupid as conventions and stuff, to "announce" their new computers, the more they hurt their business.....

I agree 100%. Forget tradeshows : use the energy to bring the stuff to the market. People will buy if it is good !!
 
spinko said:
I agree 100%. Forget tradeshows : use the energy to bring the stuff to the market. People will buy if it is good !!

I don't think Apple sits on a good product so they can announce it at a tradeshow. They always pre-announce hardware, and half the software they announce is not yet ready. It's more of a "here's what's coming soon" thing.

When they have new hardware - actually have it, they announce it, tradeshow or not. They don't have anything yet. I'm sure they wish that they did, but I doubt seriously that they'd sit on anything more than a week.
 
hayesk said:
Go find me a Win2K Server with the same specs for less than $3000. Don't forget to price in the unlimited client license.

No one I know is seriously going to consider Windows for any server. It would be Linux.
 
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