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AppleCare Training Document on iPhone 4 Signal Issues Revealed

HiRez said:
What I don't understand is, why not put the break on the top of the phone instead of the bottom? Who holds their phone from the top? Even on the right side would be better as most people are right handed and hold the phone in their left hand so they can tap with their right hand fingers.

But anyway yeah, this is starting to look really bad for Apple. It definitely seems to be a design flaw that is widespread in who it effects and that amazingly no one caught before it was released.
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Very interesting this didn't get picked up in UA testing. However, I was thinking back to the "prototype" left in the bar - didn't that have a cover on it to make it look like a 3GS - it's fairly safe to assume that all these test models out in the wild were using the same cover therefore the issue probably never happened during UA testing. Testing of the units in the factory/during the design phase and with the FCC probably had the unit fixed to a desk (we know FCC testing doesn't happen with someone holding the unit). For all Apples secrecy during testing they could have created themselves a real headache here.

Interesting on my iPhone 4 the issue is very intermittant - doesn't seem to depend on location / cell strength (db) or any other variation that i can work out - i would say i can only replicate the issue 10% of the times I try. Interestingly though i have noticed a distinct drop off in battery life when my fingers touch the black spacing. Not sure if this is just because it's not had enough charge cycles yet - has anyone else seen a drop off in battery life when they are trying to replicate the signal problem?
 
nospeed411 said:
Ok...my 2 cents....software issue my left a$$!!

Wife's phone is a week 23 phone No signal loss at all period end of story

My phone is a 22 week phone and I can hold it side by side with hers and mine has vanishing signal.


If it where software then both phones would act the same.
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I would put money down if I were a gambling man that you could get your wife's phone to lose signal if you tested it under the exact same conditions. By that I mean hold it with the same hand in the same position. At first I couldn't get one of the phones we were testing with to lose signal but after wetting my hand a bit to simulate a lightly sweaty hand, the signal immediately began to drop.
 
baryon said:
Most phones have their antennas at the top, at the back, where you're least likely to hold the phone.
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They used to, before the FCC decided that a signal that could be blocked was better than irradiating users brains with that much RF energy (even though the medical effects aren't strongly proven.)
 
I'd get a case just to save me $200 from replacing a possible cracked screen, let alone the antenna problem.
 
firewood said:
It's not a design error to put the antenna is the best possible location, and then teach people not to block the antenna.

You don't pick up a kitchen knife by the blade end often, do you? Or perhaps you think a good carving knife design should have the blade hidden between two handles or something so you can't cut yourself?
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Is that not a bit ironic though? They did this to get the best possible reception (or rather make us go "woooow" at the engineering) and then realised it pretty much made it worse for many people. They may as well just have kept it as it is in the 3G?

And I hope you're not actually trying to make a comparison between a knife and a smartphone...
 
chrmjenkins said:
.
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what a constructive post, and since you felt it necessary you quoted my entire post making that "wall of text" reappear again and then provide us with an image that also occupies virtually the same amount of vertical space...good work! :p
 
hackum said:
Also, why people keep bringing lawsuits up? It's laughable.

Apple doesn't force you to use their phone. If you don't like it or it doesn't work - return it and they'll give your money back.
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Will do exactly that. Will re-purchase once hardware issue is corrected.
 
marksman said:
This is one thing I don't understand.

In all the previous iPhones I think 1 out of 500 people did not have cases on their phone.
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Really? Everyone I know used Ghost Armor or equivalent to prevent scratching the plastic.

Now with the iPhone 4 99% of the people are not using a case.
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Its a virtually unscratchable phone - why would anyone want to use a case?
 
HiRez said:
What I don't understand is, why not put the break on the top of the phone instead of the bottom? Who holds their phone from the top? Even on the right side would be better as most people are right handed and hold the phone in their left hand so they can tap with their right hand fingers.
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I think that it's fairly obvious. Assuming that the length of the two antennas (two sides of the case) were determined by the frequencies of the various radios that the iPhone uses, then the seams are in the best possible places already (that is, where the fewest number of users would be affected). A typical right-hand grip is the least likely to bridge the two antennas (during calls anyway). There is already one seam at the top. If you move the bottom left seam to the top left, then the top seam would necessarily be moved to the bottom right, where it would be more likely bridged by people holding it. In other words, it looks like Apple already chose the best possible locations for the seams.

The problem is that the current placement of the seams suggests that Apple knew this would be a problem, and were attempting to mitigate it. Apparently they believe that the benefits of this design outweighed the problems it creates. I suppose time will tell if they right decision. We'll know that they decided that is was a mistake to use this design if next year's phone employs a different case design.
 
Sigh. If apple hadn't told us the antenna was on the outside this issue would not be in any way as well publicised. The exact same issue is present on all previous iphones. But newspapers need to fill pages and a lot of people are technology hypochondriacs. Don't believe the hype.
 
Ive never read so many analogies in my entire life as people have used in regard to this issue.
 
Macuser1628 said:
Sure.. You're going to pay my restocking fee? I cannot believe that Apple is asking for a restocking fee when the phone is defective.

Let's see $30 bumper... $30 restocking fee... hmmmm
I will return this and once Apple figures out how to fix it I will buy it again.
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Have you tried to return one, tell them it does not work, and have them charge you a restocking fee? Who did you talk to? Was it at an Apple Store or Online? Best Buy? Wal-Mart? Some other country?
 
Ubuntu said:
I'd happily bet against you. Some people simply won't want to get a case for their iPhone - to buy one just to fix this issue would make you a mug.
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Yet there were still lines into many AT&T stores this morning consisting of people who had already read about the issue. I would not be surprised if a lot of them are just going to buy a case and be happy with all the other features of their new i4.

The delay in some sort of official response might just be a way to keep the lines shorter until the iPhone 4 supply can catch up with demand. Until then, they're maxing out revenue and profitability.
 
firewood said:
It's not a design error to put the antenna is the best possible location, and then teach people not to block the antenna.

You don't pick up a kitchen knife by the blade end often, do you? Or perhaps you think a good carving knife design should have the blade hidden between two handles or something so you can't cut yourself?
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Agreed. That's what I've been saying. The engineers knew the downsides. They felt the upside was better.

ramuman said:
It's comforting to know that there are a lot of RF engineers on this forum.
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There actually are at least a couple (I assume you were being sarcastic).

lxngtnguy said:
what a constructive post, and since you felt it necessary you quoted my entire post making that "wall of text" reappear again and then provide us with an image that also occupies virtually the same amount of horizontal space...good work! :p
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All posts take up the same amount of horizontal space :cool: I had to quote the entire block because the image was tailored for that. I don't compromise.
 
+1 in class action lawsuit

hackum said:
Also, why people keep bringing lawsuits up? It's laughable.

Apple doesn't force you to use their phone. If you don't like it or it doesn't work - return it and they'll give your money back.
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It has to do with a company willfully and knowingly selling a product that has a design flaw causing it to malfunction to the point of failure.

Similar scenario to Toyota and their faulty accelerators.
 
just spoke with level 2 apple care and they gave me the exact bs...

the guy even went as far as saying that it was by design that the reception stops when the lower left corner is touched. I had to have him repeat that cuz i was like wtf are you joking?

i had the whole conversation recorded too and when i said hey can you say that again ... you just said it's by design that the phone completely stops transmitting data/voice when the black bar is touched..

he got all panicky and start saying hey you need to talk to our legal department.. let me transfer you.. you better not record this.. and that conversations between apple care and customers are property of apple..

lol omg.. let me know if anyone wants the phone recording.. terrible attitude by the way.. no apologies or acknowledgement of problem.. kept telling me that i need to hold it differently and not touch the black bar..

:rolleyes:
 
The truth about cell phones

Ok boys and girls, before we go picking on ANY cell phone manufacturer, lets talk facts.
I KNOW what I am talking about because I deal with RF (radio frequency) equipment EVERY DAY.
EVERY cell phone, radio, tv, car radio, walkie talkie and any other device that transmits or receives radio waves operates the same: When you touch the antenna, you are basically grounding out the antenna, causing a loss of power output. If you dont believe it, go grab your car antenna, or put your hands on your satellite radio antenna.
Radio waves are a type of electricity. Electricity takes the path of least resistance. You have moisture on your hands...... need I finish the thought?
It's called physics. Nothing is going to change that. Steve Jobs and APPLE ARE NOT PERFECT, but you can't assume they are capable of changing the laws of physics.
I don't care if APPLE tweeks the software to make it 'look' like the problem is gone, it won't be. I have seen this on every cell phone I have ever owned.
To those of you who want to bash APPLE, go for it. Meanwhile, just remember that it wasn't too long ago that you were making fun of icons and mice and multi-touch, et. al.
If you don't like whats on TV, change the channel. If you don't like the iPhone, buy something else. If this doesn't make sense to you, then move to New Jersey.
This is AMERICA, it's your choice!! But don't expect APPLE to change the laws of nature to please you.
 
firewood said:
It's not a design error to put the antenna is the best possible location, and then teach people not to block the antenna.

You don't pick up a kitchen knife by the blade end often, do you? Or perhaps you think a good carving knife design should have the blade hidden between two handles or something so you can't cut yourself?
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lol....thats great....but true

i agree....you definitly dont pick up knifes by the blade end....
 
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