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No it doesn't. A9's is longer.
So power sucking that even ARM's newest design uses it? And the alternative is using more cores, and/or higher clock frequencies, which also uses more power.

Once more, with feeling. An A9 and A8 fabricated on the same process technology: A8 runs at a higher clock frequency. Depending on the difference in clock frequency, it may or may not consume more power (it would certainly consume less than a multicore). A9 has a higher IPC which means it can get equivalent performance for less clock speed (and hence less switching power, albeit more leakage power). It has many more wires switching, which negates some of that advantage.

The real advantage of A9 is that it will generally be fabbed on smaller process nodes than A8, which makes up for the power-sucking additional hardware. But, of course, if an A8 is fabbed on that same process node, A9 loses that advantage.
 
I find it interesting that people are saying as long as the iPad is "snappy" who cares what processor it uses. Ok, that's fine and it makes sense, but somehow I envision people thinking that this means safari and the UI for the home page.

What happens when a dev tries to write a decent app and it begins to chug? Speed isn't only about the built in light weight stuff.

Of course it remains to be seen how fast this thing will actually be...
 
True fanboism at it's finest. Apple knows better than everyone else so whatever they do is perfect and you cannot question it. I love it!

Come on dude, lets let this go calling people names, especially fanboy. Is it a damn crime to say that Apple KNOWS their products better than their customers? Seeing as Apple is a multi-billion dollar company and most people here probably don't even make 5 figures, let alone even have a job, I don't see anything wrong with that. Some of you guys are amazing here, if we crap on Apple, you love us, if we say anything remotely positive you call someone a fanboy. So people have to crap on Apple to make you like them better? Ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their feelings on the matter, they shouldn't have to be labeled by you. :rolleyes:
 
I find it interesting that people are saying as long as the iPad is "snappy" who cares what processor it uses. Ok, that's fine and it makes sense, but somehow I envision people thinking that this means safari and the UI for the home page.

What happens when a dev tries to write a decent app and it begins to chug? Speed isn't only about the built in light weight stuff.

Of course it remains to be seen how fast this thing will actually be...

So Safari rendering webpages is light weight stuff well just look what the CPU on you computer does when you open Macrumors.com

And the iWork Suite light weight stuff, too.

And the demo of NOVA and NFS Shift was light weight stuff....


Well if you are talking about Photoshop doing a crazy task... iPad was never intended to go that way
 
So Safari rendering webpages is light weight stuff well just look what the CPU on you computer does when you open Macrumors.com

And the iWork Suite light weight stuff, too.

And the demo of NOVA and NFS Shift was light weight stuff....

I'm talking about apps that you wouldn't even be thinking right now. There can be stuff way beyond text editing and web page rendering on this device. My guess is also that the 3D games you speak of aren't cpu bound so that doesn't matter as much. And yeah web browsing should not be some crazy task for a machine. If Safari is poorly written, that's Apple's deal.

Just for fun here at work, when I go to mac rumors on this core2duo WinXP machine on chome it maxed out around 15% usage at the worst. Right now it's at about 3-5%. This is a really old E6400 too. This thing would be stomped by modern cpu's. I don't use Safari on Windows, but I have no idea off the top of my head what Safari would do on my OSX machine at home.

So yeah, original point still stands. Oh I see your stealth edit. I'm not talking about photoshop (who would want such a clunky way of working on photoshop?), I'm talking about stuff we haven't even thought of. Who knows what that would be? Unless of course the goal is for iPad to strictly be a media consuming device, then in that case who cares. I would hope it wouldn't be limited in that way though.
 
I'm not a developer, I hardly qualify as a astute user, but would it be of more relevance if the SDK takes advantage of OpenCL and GCD.

If the iPad can take advantage of OpenCL then should I care whether it is an A8 or an A9. If the iPad can use GCD but not OpenCL then would I want a dual core A9 over a single core A8?

I was excited about the iPad because I was hoping that it would leverage these Snow Leopard technologies, even though I have not heard anyone mention it.
 
OpenCL allows you to do "general purpose" computing on the GPU, where general purpose really means a somewhat limited set of vector computations that only apply in certain situations. In any case, the iPad's GPU is pretty much always going to be working hard on displaying the UI graphics and won't have enough power to spare for doing other things.

GCD could be useful but there really should be multiple cores available for it to make a difference.
 
If you would have quoted my whole post you would have found out that i was talking about a transition.

A transition that may or may not happen, and which doesn't fix any of the other problems with it.

And please explain why the iPhone/touch/ipad OS is less reliable... any solid proof?

You don't own one?

No. Once again: A8 has a 13 stages. A9 has 8. A8 has more pipe stages than A9.

Yeah, you're right, I was reversing it :D

Well, regardless that just means it's performance is better still versus the A8.
 
Another reason for me not to buy one. For a device like this to be useful to me I need multitasking. I don't need a portable movie player. I need something to create and show presentations and videoconferencing on the go.

Needs a front facing camera and multitasking for me.
 
Another reason for me not to buy one. For a device like this to be useful to me I need multitasking. I don't need a portable movie player. I need something to create and show presentations and videoconferencing on the go.

Needs a front facing camera and multitasking for me.

what does this have to do with multitasking?
 
Another reason for me not to buy one. For a device like this to be useful to me I need multitasking. I don't need a portable movie player. I need something to create and show presentations and videoconferencing on the go.

Needs a front facing camera and multitasking for me.

Does the A9 have a built-in front facing camera or something?

/sarcasm
 
Huh? So now you are claiming fewer pipeline stages is better performance?

Isn't there more too it than that though? Doesn't that induce higher penalties on incorrectly guessed branches?

Didn't a recent intel architecture switch to shorter pipelines yet see better performance? I thought it was maybe from P4->Core Duo or something like that, since P4's had much higher mhz/ghz than the CD stuff, but no one wants a P4...

Of course if I remember correctly you have a ton of experience in the actual field and would know more than probably anyone on this board so...
 
Major bummer - single core, come on !

What is next with this product? Some of the details on this product are embarrassing as an Apple fan. All everyone is talking about is what this product doesn't do.

Come on , come on ... where are we at now?

We have:

1. A Apple price tag

We don't have:

1. new input method
2 a comparable DPI display to the iPhone/iTouch (160 DPI)
3. camera
4. multi-tasking
5. flash (or java, or any browser plug-ins)
6. USB
7. any type of removable storage
8. and NOW maybe only a single core, which would make it how much faster than a iTouch/iPhone? Just a bit faster?
 
Ugh! I hope I'm dead before this happens. Replace computers which are user controlled with a completely scripted and controlled (and MONETIZED) "experience"? I don't think so. They can pry my computer from my cold dead hand :p.
I agree wholeheartedly. While the iPad is cool and sexy looking, its potential reliance on the "cloud/software-as-service" paradigm is a tad troubling. I want nothing to do with 'cloud' computing, as there are too many (possible) flaws in the concept: (1) the Orwellian implications of no longer having ownership or control of your data and files, (2) the pragmatic implications of network failures--if everything is streaming-based, what happens when the network link craps out and (3) the cost implications--everything becomes a "pay-per-play" infinite subscription service with locked hardware (like cable TV and their DVR boxes that you never stop paying for).
 
Putting all these arguments aside for a moment.................. ;)

What will need, and WILL GET (if we wait a while)

Are the same games/applications on the iPad and another device based on a different chipset (Nvidea Tegra 2)

When we can put the two devices side by side and see how the same game/application runs on each, how fast/smooth it looks.

THEN we will know the truth.

If we end up with a game that runs at twice the framerate on a different tablet, then we can make real comments as to the rights and wrongs of what Apple have done.
 
Are you still waiting to get an already obsolete machine?? Ehe
explanation: this machine is sculpt to what apple thinks that are users necessities today
just a slight change, and you are done.

Just wait for html5, these ipads will get one fire with 3d anims and such
 
I
Despite wrong information above, on a given process technology the A8 will likely operate at a higher clock speed than the A9 since the A8 has 50% more pipe stages. Additionally, in-order machines don't have to pay for big power-sucking branch predictors, etc. in order to keep their IPC up.
though i agree with you in principle on most things you've said on the subject so far, branch predictors are useful to in-order CPUs just as well. A8 happens to have a branch predictor.

additionally, while higher clocks are fine (and yes, A8 should be able to clock higher than the A9), performance does not equate with clock. we all know what happened to the pentium4, the champion of the clock.
 
though i agree with you in principle on most things you've said on the subject so far, branch predictors are useful to in-order CPUs just as well. A8 happens to have a branch predictor.

additionally, while higher clocks are fine (and yes, A8 should be able to clock higher than the A9), performance does not equate with clock. we all know what happened to the pentium4, the champion of the clock.

Out-of-order machines need much beefier branch predictors because the branch miss penalty is so much higher, however. In-order machines typically get away with branch predictors not much more complicated than:

if (seen it very recently) {assume I'll do what I did last time;}
else if (branch is backwards) {assume I'll take it;}
else {assume I won't take it.}

Isn't there more too it than that though? Doesn't that induce higher penalties on incorrectly guessed branches?

Didn't a recent intel architecture switch to shorter pipelines yet see better performance? I thought it was maybe from P4->Core Duo or something like that, since P4's had much higher mhz/ghz than the CD stuff, but no one wants a P4...

Of course if I remember correctly you have a ton of experience in the actual field and would know more than probably anyone on this board so...

Yes, sometimes shorter pipelines are better (mostly for power, not for performance). Sometimes they are worse, because it slows the clock frequency. That's my point. You can't say an A9 will perform any faster than an A8 in the real world unless you know the process node and implementation details.
 
Yes, sometimes shorter pipelines are better (mostly for power, not for performance). Sometimes they are worse, because it slows the clock frequency. That's my point. You can't say an A9 will perform any faster than an A8 in the real world unless you know the process node and implementation details.

Or you just run benchmarks for bias on one and watch the other get burned alive on the internet.
 
The whole problem here is that stripping a SoC down does not make it faster.

We await confirmation of this, but some in the tech world seem to be adamant that Apple's going to use a stripped down single core A8 chip within its A4 chip (helping with speed).

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2010/02/meet-the-a4-the-ipads-brain-not-quite-ready.ars

Jons articles are usually pretty good but this one is revolting and makes me wonder if someone else has possesed his brain for a bit. He usually doesn't mess up technical issues this much.

The number one issue is his implication that stripping off I/O will some how make the processor faster. Removing unused I/O will have zero impact on operational performance as the CPU would have nothing to do with the unused pheripherials.

What stripping the SoC might do is to allow for more Apple specific hardware. Apples custom IP might be anything from an advanced vector unit to a hardware video decoder to a custom DMA processor. Or they could have added some hardware to speed up Objective C. The fact is that the chip could be anything from a run of the mill SoC implementation to something far more innovative. As long as Apple is silent on the SoC make up we will never know.

One thing that may help Apple here though is that a stripped processor will use less power. The long run times in standby might be an indication of the core more than anything else. After all the screen is likely the biggest draw of power by far. I'd be surprised if the SoC is using much more than four watts of power run full out.

In any event the big problem with Apple right now is that they leave out even more important specs like the amount of RAM iPad will have. The is a very important element. The RAM spec will tell us a lot about how well the iPad will run as a web device for example. Frankly iPad is a bit of a joke right now because no one knows exactly what they will be getting for their money. I've never considered my self to be a spec junky but I do like to know what I'm getting for my money.


Dave
 
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