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Apple's AirPods Team Wants 'More Bandwidth' Than Bluetooth Provides

eicca said:
Totally. Hearing live calibrates your ear for all the high-frequency information that digital audio just cannot capture.
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Don't know about that, but I do know that listening to high quality live, like classical or acoustic makes one disappointed when you go listen the recording. If you do this enough, you get to hear the differences.

Of course, without anything to compare too, most people don't have any idea what they are missing. All of the propaganda says they are not missing anything. But experience says they are.
 
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sudo-sandwich said:
Considering that iPhones had Bluetooth support since the beginning, yet almost nobody seemed to use BT headphones until Apple turned it into the only option (aside from a bothersome dongle), I think it's more than a very small percentage.

Apple did also release the best wireless earbuds when they removed the jack, but not everyone uses AirPods. And most of what makes them great is how they supplement BT with proprietary protocols to get around limitations, such as the cruddy quality mono mode all other BT headphones go into when using the mic. It's lock-in.
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They included the dongle for several years. Most weren't using them.

And look, the world didn't end when they removed it. People adapted. Customer satisfaction increased. Other manufacturers followed because their users didn't care either.

Everyone I've ever heard switch to wireless for general use has been upset they didn't do so earlier. As Henry Ford said, “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Suppose you can hang out with all the folks who insisted a phone without a physical keyboard would never work. Hang with the group that said you can't remove the floppy drive! Those that said "USB? You can't put that on a computer exclusively, it'll never work!" Hang out with those that said you can't remove the DVD drive! Those that insisted you can't remove the VGA and ethernet port! Looks like a great crowd that knew what they were talking about.
 
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nt5672 said:
Don't know about that, but I do know that listening to high quality live, like classical or acoustic makes one disappointed when you go listen the recording. If you do this enough, you get to hear the differences.

Of course, without anything to compare too, most people don't have any idea what they are missing. All of the propaganda says they are not missing anything. But experience says they are.
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It may be entirely psychological. In one experiment, researchers served people the same wine, but labeled one as being a $100 bottle. Without a miss, people said they enjoyed the $100 bottle more, despite being the exact same wine as the $20 bottle. Not only that, but when examined with an fMRI the region on the brain associated with enjoyment lit up brighter. So they not only believed they enjoyed it more, they may have actually enjoyed it more, despite being no different.

The same thing happens with music and music quality. One study looked at professors within the field. When they were told the person playing was a world-class musician, they rated them far higher, despite the fact they weren't. The opposite was true too, when told the musician was an amateur, they rated them lower, despite the fact they were actually world-class musicians.

You're told you can hear the difference or that one type of music format is better and even if there is no difference your brain believes there is. We're great at lying to ourselves, even if we don't realize it.
 
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A few hundred million highly manufactured devices full of rare earth elements going into landfills every year because the battery life is very finite, and batteries cannot be replaced. I will also go wired until this changes.
 
time for a proprietary version of bluetooth, which only apple will use to lock its users further into apple's ecosystem.
 
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I want "more money" than my salary provides. Suffices to say I "concentrate very hard" on getting the most out of my current salary, but I would "like more money".
 
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Two issues here:
1. Unless Apple can perfectly solve the connection issue WITHIN their OWN product lineup, lossless is meaningless. Wrong priority. I want the connection be successful EVERY SINGLE TIME when I am right beside my iDevices.

2. Assuming this “Hi-Fi” headphone comes out of market, I doubt Apple will implement Hi-Fi support on locally stored hi-res music (No, your “download offline” folk. That does not count).

3. Battery life aside, depending on technology, this new “Hi-Fi” Bluetooth headphone would only work with latest device, if some sort of upgraded UWB is involved.

AirPods Pro’s terrible experience makes me wonder if Apple could handle this properly at all.
 
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sudo-sandwich said:
I want the jack for convenience, not for quality :) 2021 and Bluetooth is still a pain to use.
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Even more so when Apple’s own AirPods Pro doesnt play nice with their OWN devices while a generic pair of headphone works like wonders in comparison despite losing fancy features that AirPos Pro have.
 
Macintosh TV said:
It may be entirely psychological. In one experiment, researchers served people the same wine, but labeled one as being a $100 bottle. Without a miss, people said they enjoyed the $100 bottle more, despite being the exact same wine as the $20 bottle. Not only that, but when examined with an fMRI the region on the brain associated with enjoyment lit up brighter. So they not only believed they enjoyed it more, they may have actually enjoyed it more, despite being no different.

The same thing happens with music and music quality. One study looked at professors within the field. When they were told the person playing was a world-class musician, they rated them far higher, despite the fact they weren't. The opposite was true too, when told the musician was an amateur, they rated them lower, despite the fact they were actually world-class musicians.

You're told you can hear the difference or that one type of music format is better and even if there is no difference your brain believes there is. We're great at lying to ourselves, even if we don't realize it.
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When a world class musician is busking on a subway platform, they get just as ignored as other buskers. Look up Joshua Bell.

PS: he is actually a pretty cool guy. Not many world class musicians would even consider such an experiment.
 
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bookofxero said:
When a world class musician is busking on a subway platform, they get just as ignored as other buskers. Look up Joshua Bell.

PS: he is actually a pretty cool guy. Not many world class musicians would even consider such an experiment.
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Yup, I recall that from many years back.
 
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eicca said:
I’m a professional musician. I spend every waking hour with live instruments that make infinite-definition music. Yes, I absolutely can hear the difference.
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Well it's not really infinite unless you cool your recording studio down to absolute zero and stop your heartbeat. Otherwise there's thermal noise, and the blood rushing thru your ear membranes that sets a finite noise floor. I'd be surprised if your effective ENOB was above 20, about the same as the best 24-bit audio rate instrumentation ADCs.
 
sudo-sandwich said:
Considering that iPhones had Bluetooth support since the beginning, yet almost nobody seemed to use BT headphones until Apple turned it into the only option (aside from a bothersome dongle), I think it's more than a very small percentage.

Apple did also release the best wireless earbuds when they removed the jack, but not everyone uses AirPods. And most of what makes them great is how they supplement BT with proprietary protocols to get around limitations, such as the cruddy quality mono mode all other BT headphones go into when using the mic. It's lock-in.
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The lesson Apple keeps teaching and which others keep ignoring is - to create true meaningful change in a market, you need to force change. By taking bold unapologetic stances.

Here’s a touchscreen smart phone without the familiarity of a physical Qwerty keyboard. Here’s a large screen tablet without a desktop OS and desktop apps and file system. Here’s a smart phone without a headphone jack. Here’s a laptop with only usb c ports.

The real benefit comes not in me not needing a wired headphone, but in the removal of the jack (hopefully) incentivising companies to come up with better wireless headphones and wireless technologies. By giving them one extra reason to and one less reason not to.
 
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Whatever solution they have in mind to provide more bandwitch than Bluetooth, it must be open source at this point or the revenue loss from Android/switch users will affect Apple’s profit and mass appeal of the product.
 
firewood said:
Well it's not really infinite unless you cool your recording studio down to absolute zero and stop your heartbeat. Otherwise there's thermal noise, and the blood rushing thru your ear membranes that sets a finite noise floor. I'd be surprised if your effective ENOB was above 20, about the same as the best 24-bit audio rate instrumentation ADCs.
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I’m not in recording studios. I’m working with full orchestras, chamber ensembles and solo players. Nothing is better for your ears, and no digital audio can even come close to capturing the detail.
 
TheYayAreaLiving 🎗 said:
Apple should just bring back the 3.5 headphone jack back. This will eliminate all the problems with the bandwidth. There is only so much technology you can fit in the Air Pods.

There are many people out there who would still prefer the 3.5 headphone jack in today's world.
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There are many more people who want the features that removal of the headphone jack provided (improved water and dust resistance, bigger battery, etc.)
 
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What do you need from small-form, convenient AirPods.
sounds like Apple is trying too hard.
just like what bore iOS7.
 
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So he’s hinting at a new technology being used, but will it be bespoke Apple wireless tech or a universal standard?
 
Would WiFi fit in AirPods? Would the energy drain be too much? If Apple can't convince the Bluetooth people to improve, they'll make their own radios.
 
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