Apple software has been getting buggier. The thought of another OS isn’t exciting me.
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Apple's AR/VR Headset Nearing Completion as Board Gets Demo
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They sell iPhones and iPads every year. Maybe if they come out with a new one for everybody every year. With a massive subscription too don’t forget
hah.
Everyone is acting like the $3k price doesn't imply this isn't going to be positioned as a laptop alternative. The price isn't bad if you consider it's like a $1500 Macbook with a holographic display. It will absolutely support the wireless Apple keyboards, anything that runs in a web browser, and probably a virtual desktop for anything that can run on an iPad.
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This!
It’s a completely new category for their ecosystem. Thus thinking about how they would cram an Occulus into the ecosystem - if history is any indicator - will likely prove the wrong way to think about this.
Interesting thought, sir. 👍
I guess the only thing of which I am 100% certain: whatever launches will likely be drool worthier than anyone here is expecting. Even at $3k, I’m probably going to reeeally want one. 😂
I doubt gaming consoles at first. Maybe gaming accessories with AR/VR, but have you seen the potential behind the Series X/PS5? You couldn’t build a PC for under $500 with the capabilities these consoles offer with the CPU/graphic processing.
But still, to early of infancy to know the future potential years from now.
did you know that if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it? shocker. i know.
I think this is just about the only way Apple could justify a high price point—the ability to float application windows for existing apps anywhere in 3D space so you can have a large virtual workspace wherever you are.
I suspect the OS and built-in apps of any Apple VR/AR device will work with only visual hand tracking, just as the iPhone works with only test.
For more productive use, you'll want to pair a keyboard and mouse/trackpad.
I really hope they also have Oculus/PC VR style hand controllers, and the lack of rumors around controllers concerns me.
I haven't really got eye fatigue from using VR. Face comfort is has been much more of an issue for me than eye fatigue.
The headset could potentially replace a MacBook Air connected to (multiple) big monitors.
But no amount of Apple magic is going to put $6000 worth of Mac computing power in a small and comfortable form factor. I mean, the performance will get better in the future, but it will always be behind a contemporaneous desktop computer.
TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️
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Not possible. Not even an option. It’s from Apple. Must buy it. Take it away from Apple Polishing Cloth 😂
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This just doesn't sound like Apple. Have we every heard of them showing the board an unreleased product?
I also have to think Apple has multiple versions of a headset in the pipeline. They've been methodically building AR features into iOS for years - Maps is a great example of them showcasing their AR vision right in front of us. This headset doesn't sound like an AR product.
VR product hit features? Gaming, Fitness, ??? I enjoy my Oculus but there's no way I can work in it. My entire team has one and we continue to try to do work in it. It's too disconnected from the rest of my work life. Apple could easily make a huge leap in the VR work space just by having the ecosystem of Apps. Oculus also sucks to wear for more than 30 minutes.
I do love hanging out with my brother in VR. Fun to play mini-golf or ping-pong and catch up. A killer VR FaceTime could be game changer.
Any other VR killer features? I could see entertainment integrations with TV+
Having played in VR, it's very immersive. I'm a believer that something is there just not sure what it is yet (outside of gaming).
I could see Apple launching a developer version of their rOS and maybe some dev hardware without telling us the full story yet. But this all still feels very un-Apple.
This type of new category is a show stopper. In the past, they'd have a strong opinion as to why they are building it and what their vision for the future is. How does this make our lives better?
I also have to think Apple has multiple versions of a headset in the pipeline. They've been methodically building AR features into iOS for years - Maps is a great example of them showcasing their AR vision right in front of us. This headset doesn't sound like an AR product.
VR product hit features? Gaming, Fitness, ??? I enjoy my Oculus but there's no way I can work in it. My entire team has one and we continue to try to do work in it. It's too disconnected from the rest of my work life. Apple could easily make a huge leap in the VR work space just by having the ecosystem of Apps. Oculus also sucks to wear for more than 30 minutes.
I do love hanging out with my brother in VR. Fun to play mini-golf or ping-pong and catch up. A killer VR FaceTime could be game changer.
Any other VR killer features? I could see entertainment integrations with TV+
Having played in VR, it's very immersive. I'm a believer that something is there just not sure what it is yet (outside of gaming).
I could see Apple launching a developer version of their rOS and maybe some dev hardware without telling us the full story yet. But this all still feels very un-Apple.
This type of new category is a show stopper. In the past, they'd have a strong opinion as to why they are building it and what their vision for the future is. How does this make our lives better?
Why would apple want to consolidate their products? The headset may be able to replace those devices you mentioned, but I do not ever see apple doing that. Less products to sell means less opportunity to make money.
The rendered product is already quite a bit thinner than anything else on the market. Sunglasses form factor just isn't currently possible. You may be able to display a simple HUD on a device that could pass for sunglasses, but that's about it.
The Mac Pro runs the same OS and software as much cheaper Macs. It's different when you also have to develop an OS and apps for a niche product. (which is why I suspect that if Apple is coming out with a several thousand dollar device, it will have some sort of capacity to run existing apps)
You have absolutely no idea what it’s going to support or if it’s even really going to be released.
That’s a good point I hadn’t considered. The analogy between Mac and iPhone makes a lot of sense too. This headset can then continue to serve as the heavy workhorse device and also better serve industries where the smaller form factor doesn’t matter but power/image quality do. I think you are spot on. ??
HobeSoundDarryl
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By eye fatigue, I meant using this imaginary virtualized Mac for up to full work days. Can it be good enough that lots of text on a virtual screen "in there" doesn't wear out our eyes? Games with blobs & monsters is a lot different than seeing a tiny e is not an o or an I is not an l, etc, in THOUSANDS of words in lengthy work days, etc. I just don't know about that... as I don't know about the whole imagined concept of maybe all other Apple-type stuff could be available "in there" to help easily wash $3K or whatever it will be.
By $6K worth of computing power, I don't expect a Mac Ultra built into the headset. But what if these virtual Macs/Phones/iPads ran on server farms. What you see on the virtual screen is only the video... much like watching any show or movie that shows a computer screen. The "heavy lifting" is done at the server farm. The glasses/goggles virtual Mac only needs to display the post processing whatever we see on the screen.
Can that be fast enough over wifi/5G? If we can stream 4K over wifi/5G without hiccups then maybe the answer is YES. A variation of this already exists where big games run on a computer and the visuals basically stream to a TV nearby. The gamers play on the TV but the heavy lifting is perhaps a room to rooms away... or not even within the home.
There's a thread announcing the return of Fortnite to iOS via Xbox cloud gaming. What is less demanding than AAA game Mac functionality is passed to a virtual Mac screen the same way? More like Azure running Windows at a different location but delivering Windows wherever we are (with no PC at all).
Perhaps that's practically impossible (now) but I'm thinking if very intensive AAA games can run on some distant server but be played on a local screen, why can't generally less intensive general purpose computing be done the same way and display on a virtual screen in AR/VR?
In this thread, I'm mostly just thinking out loud, trying to imagine something beyond swinging virtual lightsabers at 3D blobs/blocks flying at me and paying $3K for that instead of buying Oculus or similar for much of the same. I don't imagine Apple can make the blobs/blocks that much prettier to justify the multiple. So it would have to be a whole other level of delivery. Apple already has expensive stuff that might be able to be virtualized within AR/VR.
If so, someone needing 20 Ultras working together might be able to have that kind of Mac for a while... not in physical form but processing elsewhere and delivering whatever would show on a reality screen show on a virtual one.
If we doubt away all such possibilities then this becomes a super-expensive Oculus for games and I immediately jump in the camp of "few want" and "way too expensive." But bring some of that to it and then it can flip into $3K is a bargain.
Bottom line: I keep coming back to the core concept. IF Apple can basically fully control what our eyes see and what our ears hear, then anything we can possibly experience through our sight & sound can be in there. That goes wayyyyyyy beyond Oculus 2.0 and towards Matrix/Star Trek Holodeck sans touch. What is feeling like you are ANYWHERE at ANYTIME worth to someone? What would an any-size screen Mac Ultra-Ultra-Ultra being available to someone at any time in any setting be worth? What do we pay now for front-row seats to a whole broadway show season or courtside seats to a whole sports season? Etc. ANYTHING we can experience with our eyes and ears would be in play here. Think of everything that gobbles up lots of cash mostly for visual and auditory experiences and this could possibly deliver that on demand, anywhere, at any time.
Once you start imagining the possibilities, about $3K can still be crazy expensive or dirt cheap. It's not automatically once because what is available now on the consumer level is a fraction of about $3K.
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There are a lot of people who haven't tried VR enough to really understand it (or even to get used to it). My VR rig includes FFB racing-sim equipment as well and runs over 6000 pixels per eye in Wide FOV (4K per eye native resolution). That's with an FOV so wide you can barely tell you have an HMD on your face (no horse-blinder syndrome.) I can, for example, climb into a 1960s Ferrari 330 P4 race car and drive the ring, at night, in a thunderstorm, with frickin' fireworks that reflect in the paintwork of the car (AC + SOL + Rain effects.) If I want I can pull over, carefully climb out of the sim seat, walk around the damn car, and then stand there watching the other cars race by. Like many high-end VR users, I find the experience is so realistic it causes phantom senses: In this example I get colder as night comes on and I can smell the wet pavement. I recently had a friend give it a go and he said (and I quote): "That was one of the most intense experiences of my life."
Saying no one wants it, or that it's a gimmick is just utterly inaccurate. Go have some great VR experiences and you'll see what it can do. It might take you a while to get used to it though; it's no lie that some people experience disorientation, even at very high refresh rates. It's worth the time investment though: VR is to normal gaming as IMAX theaters are to a flip-book-animation.
I’m on the same boat, I find this all too gimmicky.
However more and more people around me have been praising doing tasks like 3D modeling with what used to be called “Medium” (now part of Adobe Substance) in VR hacking around sculpting something with all the quirks of navigation shortcuts lifted.
Akin to when the mouse pointer got introduced for the first time and changed it all.
Now I’m not too sure, at least maybe now it warrants being tested.
How do you have a wide FoV 6K per eye headset? I cannot think of any headset in existence outside those in labs that would achieve this.
As long as I can sell 15 shares to cover the price of it I'm good.
Excited for this, hope it does get previewed at WWDC.
Excited for this, hope it does get previewed at WWDC.
I also have big doubts about usefulness, but here are two I think I'd like. 1) VR sports events where you can attend live NFL/yada games and see things from any angle, and 2) education where you can do live classes in other countries/languages/locations. I just think it will be at least another decade before any of this AR/VR stuff is meaningful. But I'm getting old.