Apple's ARM Plans in 2009? NetBooks, Tablets, Other?

[137489]

Hi

Ever since I got my AlumiBook MacBook I have been staring at the mini-displayport on it and then keep thinking about the iMac-ish patent app that came out a while back. (small box that slides into the side of an iMac screen)

Your post is one of the first I have seen that also thinks about minidisplayport in other ways. 99.99% of the others are how minidisplayport stole their girlfriend or kicked their dog and that it's just plain evil

Now given that iphone game apps are being outputted (unsupported) to larger displays, I have to think now more than ever that their will be an iphone to miniDisplayPort cable in the future.

The idea of hooking up my iPhone to my 24" LED ACD and then just using my Apple BT keyboard with it just feels 'too cool' & 'so right'.

...and maybe 'too real' in the near future.

Is it MW yet?

Cheers
-wsn

I assuming everybody on here is also stuck in this Holiday/Christmas game. I only want Mac stuff, and it has to be a gift card as 'my' Christmas is not till Jan

hmmm..

line up a mini display port, usb, and macsafe - and then slide them into the side of a slate or netbook laptop. (you need the magsafe for power as the slate/netbok would be the processor, display port to power the larger LSD, and USB to power the USB hub on the back. Yep. Sounds good.

As someone posted about netbooks being a peice of junk. Target had them locked down with plexi-glass over the top (and were non-working units), so I could not play with them. they were flying off the shelf at $399. But what what got me was the trackpad. Felt awful, and the rocker mouse bar. Looked and felt cheap.

Why would Target show the cheap ASUS ee PC, when they have the MSI Wind on their website with better specs and only a fraction more. they should ahve had the MSI wind in stores.


Maybe this could be an interesting MW after all. too bad all I need is, well.. Hey wait!!! I have most I need, just a smaller foot print mackbook for taking on vaca, so I do not have to risk my $2500 mackbook (yeah I beeed it up and bought lots of software.

 

[milatchi]

Wow, Apple is going to put out a $4,000 Netbook, what a great deal! At such an affordable Apple price it will sell great in this down economy.

Apple's so great, innovative, intelligent, intuitive, receptive to their customers, and non-litigious. Leave it to innovative Apple to lead this paradigm shift in the market to smaller, more affordable, Netbooks.

Keep this under your hat everyone... I heard that Apple is going to have a higher tier Netbook available with one FireWire port for just $5,100. Can you believe it? For just an additional $1,100 you get FireWire! What a fantastic deal, it's "insanely great!"

GOD I LOVE APPLE!

APPLE! APPLE! APPLE! APPLE!

SEGA!

 

[winterspan]

I generally try to be helpful and friendly on message forums, communicating accurate information, building charts and informational graphics for the community, and trying to participate in thoughtful, reasoned debate, but admittedly I get aggravated quite easily and have minimal patience for the arrogant, rude, and abrasive characters that always seem to flourish in the anonymity of online forums. My (decidedly pre-New Years) resolution is to become less adversarial and confrontational on these forums, and instead of arguing over the merits of Apple's more controversial moves or clashing with both anti-Apple trolls and the always ubiquitous fanboy apologists, I'm going to solely stick to providing information....

Anyways, getting to the real reason for this post, I just wanted to inform/remind everyone about the merits of ARM processors. Currently, The iPhone and other high-end smartphones use a system-on-a-chip processor that is centered around an ARM11 Core usually running between 300-600mhz . In addition to the ARM core, most manufacturers include a SIMD/DSP coprocessor for speeding up floating point, video, media and other signal processing tasks. Currently, on higher end chips, most include a dedicated 3D graphics core based on PowerVR MBX technology (licensed from Imagination inc.) The iPhone is one of these with a 420mhz-clocked ARM11 CPU with a "PowerVR MBX lite" graphics core. We've all seen the impressive performance of this technology when coupled with Apple's software engineering prowess, but the hardware in the iPhone pales in comparison to the next-generation tech that is ready to go.

The newest out of ARM is the ARM "Cortex" series based on the new ARMv7 instruction set (compared to the ARM11's v6 instruction set -- I know, it's confusing, try to stay with me). The initial implementation is the Cortex-A8, which is currently integrated into the newest generation of Texas Instruments popular OMAP line of processors (OMAP 3000 series specifically). The core is usually said to be capable of running anywhere from 600mhz to over 1.0Ghz, and Qualcomm recently has claimed that their ARM Cortex based "SnapDragon" chip is up to 1.5Ghz. The Cortex-A8 is not simply an ARM11 running at high clockspeeds, it's a full evolutionary improvement with a new superscalar architecture that is over twice as fast as ARM11 at the same clock speed. So in a best case scenario, a future iPhone with a Cortex-A8 running at 800mhz could possibly be 3-4X faster than the current iPhone's 420mhz ARM11. that's huge!
The future (~2010) of ARM Cortex is the Cortex-A9 processor, a multi-core improvement over the A8. It combines a modified, out-of-order Cortex architecture with the multi-core capability of the ARM11. The out-of-order architecture of the Cortex-A9 combined with the capability of up to quad-core operation will really make this thing scream! (Intel Core 2 Duo, PowerPC, etc are out-of-order. Intel ATOM and previous ARM cores are in-order). They are already talking about netbooks with a high-clocked Cortex-A8 CPU, so a multi-core Cortex-A9 setup would easily have enough power to run a fully featured laptop!

Similarly, Imagination has a new generation of PowerVR graphics processors called "POWER SGX". These are directX 10 and OpenGL 3.0 capable, and are a generational leap ahead of the PowerVR MBX used in the iPhone. Apple's PA SEMI could be actively working on integrating an SGX core onto a new ARM Cortex-A8 based system-on-a-chip for iPhone 3.0 right now!

All in all, I'm definitely excited to see where this is headed in the near-future..

 

[Vagelturf]

I predicted this a year and a half ago

The only difference is that I thought they would customize Intel chips, not ARM.

http://www.bagelturf.com/files/2a28b5fc10d2daab5456832528a49f1c-916.php

The piece that most people are missing is that Objective-C has a runtime. Actually it can have several, and whichever is the appropriate one gets used. The runtime provides the run-time support for the compiled code and as such does an awful lot of simple things very often, making it ripe for an optimized instruction set. We're talking things like memory allocation for objects, message passing between objects, finding and caching objects to receive messages, returning message values, etc.

So calling it the Objective-C instruction set is not accurate, but does describe what is going on in general terms. And it could be a killer because it ties the code to Apple CPUs along with saving power and running faster.

 

[davidChief]

Snow Leopard

We know that Snow Leopard is going to focus on improved performance and reduced footprint.

These two objectives seem particularly relevant to cheap, low spec machines.

Apple could release a netbook with a fairly slow processor if the operating system was significantly more efficient.

 

[Trip.Tucker]

We know that Snow Leopard is going to focus on improved performance and reduced footprint.

These two objectives seem particularly relevant to cheap, low spec machines.

Apple could release a netbook with a fairly slow processor if the operating system was significantly more efficient.

...like, for example, the iPhone?

 

[winterspan]

...like, for example, the iPhone?

Besides not having a decent-resolution ~10" screen and full-size keyboard, yes. I love the iPhone/Touch, and think it is great for browsing the web and text message/email duty, but for many tasks it just cannot replace a netbook/notebook. You cannot realistically do things like light photo editing and document/spreadsheet work on an iPhone.

 

[jackfrost123]

I generally try to be helpful and friendly on message forums, communicating accurate information, building charts and informational graphics for the community, and trying to participate in thoughtful, reasoned debate, but admittedly I get aggravated quite easily and have minimal patience for the arrogant, rude, and abrasive characters that always seem to flourish in the anonymity of online forums. My (decidedly pre-New Years) resolution is to become less adversarial and confrontational on these forums, and instead of arguing over the merits of Apple's more controversial moves or clashing with both anti-Apple trolls and the always ubiquitous fanboy apologists, I'm going to solely stick to providing information....

Anyways, getting to the real reason for this post, I just wanted to inform/remind everyone about the merits of ARM processors. Currently, The iPhone and other high-end smartphones use a system-on-a-chip processor that is centered around an ARM11 Core usually running between 300-600mhz . In addition to the ARM core, most manufacturers include a SIMD/DSP coprocessor for speeding up floating point, video, media and other signal processing tasks. Currently, on higher end chips, most include a dedicated 3D graphics core based on PowerVR MBX technology (licensed from Imagination inc.) The iPhone is one of these with a 420mhz-clocked ARM11 CPU with a "PowerVR MBX lite" graphics core. We've all seen the impressive performance of this technology when coupled with Apple's software engineering prowess, but the hardware in the iPhone pales in comparison to the next-generation tech that is ready to go.

The newest out of ARM is the ARM "Cortex" series based on the new ARMv7 instruction set (compared to the ARM11's v6 instruction set -- I know, it's confusing, try to stay with me). The initial implementation is the Cortex-A8, which is currently integrated into the newest generation of Texas Instruments popular OMAP line of processors (OMAP 3000 series specifically). The core is usually said to be capable of running anywhere from 600mhz to over 1.0Ghz, and Qualcomm recently has claimed that their ARM Cortex based "SnapDragon" chip is up to 1.5Ghz. The Cortex-A8 is not simply an ARM11 running at high clockspeeds, it's a full evolutionary improvement with a new superscalar architecture that is over twice as fast as ARM11 at the same clock speed. So in a best case scenario, a future iPhone with a Cortex-A8 running at 800mhz could possibly be 3-4X faster than the current iPhone's 420mhz ARM11. that's huge!
The future (~2010) of ARM Cortex is the Cortex-A9 processor, a multi-core improvement over the A8. It combines a modified, out-of-order Cortex architecture with the multi-core capability of the ARM11. The out-of-order architecture of the Cortex-A9 combined with the capability of up to quad-core operation will really make this thing scream! (Intel Core 2 Duo, PowerPC, etc are out-of-order. Intel ATOM and previous ARM cores are in-order). They are already talking about netbooks with a high-clocked Cortex-A8 CPU, so a multi-core Cortex-A9 setup would easily have enough power to run a fully featured laptop!

Similarly, Imagination has a new generation of PowerVR graphics processors called "POWER SGX". These are directX 10 and OpenGL 3.0 capable, and are a generational leap ahead of the PowerVR MBX used in the iPhone. Apple's PA SEMI could be actively working on integrating an SGX core onto a new ARM Cortex-A8 based system-on-a-chip for iPhone 3.0 right now!

All in all, I'm definitely excited to see where this is headed in the near-future..

Excellent post, thank you very much, people like you make the forums worthwhile.

 

[SeeLos]

please. steve jobs. i know you want to use one too.

honestly. i want a:

10"-13" hd screen tablet
128gb solid state
wireless n, bluetooth, mini displayport, usb
1.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo base
no optical drive obviously
full length or near touch keyboard
2GB's of memory

I am a student and this would own. I hate being one of the obnoxious kids with a computer in class typing away on his computer, with the back of their screens facing the professor, which i find to be rude. This device would lay flat on my desk and i could take notes or do whatever else right on my desk. This is also good for people behind you watching what you are doing (privacy). I know people are shaky about touch keyboards but it's absolutely ridiculous to think it's going to be anything but that in the near future. i love the keyboard on my iphone and i type just as fast on that as i ever have on another keyboard. if i had a full size touch one, that would work perfectly. Just imagine switching spaces by swiping four fingers across your screen...I'd pay 2,000 no problem for this if i had to.
Edit: Pair this up with a new 24 inch display and a hopefully new mac mini and i think you have a pretty damn dreamy set up for the not so demanding user.

 

[Tallest Skil]

10"-13" hd screen

Eh... no. Try just MacBook resolution.

Edit: Pair this up with the new 24 inch display and a hopefully new mac mini and i think you have a pretty damn dreamy set up for the not so demanding user.

Heck yes. I'd buy a 10-13" MacTablet in a heartbeat. Any smaller and I'm already covered (iPhone and iPod touch).

 

[puffnstuff]

I need a tablet I can do work on anything lower then 12" would be pointless. I have a touch.

 

[skellener]

No netbook from Apple. Period. They will never release a laptop in the $599 range let alone this....

RadioShack To Offer $100 Netbook With AT&T

 

[VoR]

You get iphones/consoles/laptops free with all sorts of contracts, why is that any different?
$1500+ for an atom netbook is pretty pricey

 

[Imhotep397]

I doubt very seriously there will EVER be an Apple product using an atom processor. I suspect Atom is shrunken and weak Centrino technology. Remember it was not that long after Intel supposedly showed Atom behind closed doors that Apple pulled the trigger on the PA-Semi deal citing that it was obvious that they had to start designing their own chips.

The MacBook Air is Apple's netbook. I doubt that a netbook is forthcoming, but a 13" MacBook Air is another story. Apple already had a lot of success with their 13" PowerBook a couple of years ago and after cutting that and the 12.4" iBook there's been a small void. The scarcity of LCDs at 12" and 13" drove the prices up and Apple out of that market. The largest determining factor is going to be whether Apple can actually get 13" LED screens at a reasonable pricing level. Apple is unwilling to use environment damaging LCDs so current market options probably won't work.

An Apple/Google merger is something else I wouldn't be surprised to see.

 

[wizard]

Atom isn't exactly that.

I doubt very seriously there will EVER be an Apple product using an atom processor. I suspect Atom is shrunken and weak Centrino technology.

Actually ATOM is an all new in order design. It certainly isn't a ultimate performance design but rather a low power platform to execute i86 code on.

If you limit the discussion to handheld devices I would agree that we won't see an Atom processor. However for something like Apple TV or a very low power desk top it might be a possibility.

Remember it was not that long after Intel supposedly showed Atom behind closed doors that Apple pulled the trigger on the PA-Semi deal citing that it was obvious that they had to start designing their own chips.

I have this suspicion that Apple was well involved with PA before they even knew about Atom. It was pretty clear that they had a working relationship with Apple on PPC projects before the Intel switch. In any event it is not completely clear what PA is currently doing for Apple. To the best of my knowledge we haven't seen any of their handy work yet.

The MacBook Air is Apple's netbook. I doubt that a netbook is forthcoming, but a 13" MacBook Air is another story.

AIR isn't a netbook and wouldn't be one even if it had a 13 inch screen. Netbooks ate much smaller than that. The reason innovative netbooks need ARM processors is the limited space for batteries. Small thin devices mean small thin batteries which means you need power optimized processors.

Apple already had a lot of success with their 13" PowerBook a couple of years ago and after cutting that and the 12.4" iBook there's been a small void. The scarcity of LCDs at 12" and 13" drove the prices up and Apple out of that market. The largest determining factor is going to be whether Apple can actually get 13" LED screens at a reasonable pricing level. Apple is unwilling to use environment damaging LCDs so current market options probably won't work.

Getting the hardware is obviously not a problem as Apple moves a lot of LCD screens. Plus it is obvious the competition has no issues. Besides the smaller the device the more display options Apple has. It wouldn't be out of the question to see an OLED screen in a suitably sized device.

An Apple/Google merger is something else I wouldn't be surprised to see.

I'm not sure were you are getting some of the stuff in this post but I could never see that working out well. Plus why, both companies are doing fine right now and niether would gain from the other.

I don't know anymore if we are going to see anything new at Mac World after recent events. I was really hoping for a net tablet in the mold of Touch. This of course would be an ARM powered device. The interesting question is how far up the performance curve this new device will move. It would be great if they could triple real world performance. That per processor a dual processor would be ideal. That performance level would be great for a single app but what I really want to see Apple do is to free up multi processing and back ground apps. If there is extra performance on the platform Apple won't have an excuse anymore.

I think that the bigger issue with Apples devices, isn't the processor or if that processor is ARM based but rather the limitations Apple puts on the device. If the programming environment remains restrictive the fact that ARM is in the device doesn't mean squat. It is like this the limitations on iPhone is more tolerable because it is a cell phone and is a small device. People expect to be able to do more on a larger device and frankly by virtue of the larger screen more apps are possible.

I'm just hoping MWSF doesn't turn out to be the big disappointment that it is looking to become.

Dave

 

[gr8ful]

As far as a netbook category device form factor, I'd like to see Apple do something around a 10 inch LCD with a near full size (~92%) keyboard. I'd like to see a device that allows the same flexibility as the HTC Shift (tablet with a decent keyboard available).



Tablet form-factor for ebook/doc reading, browsing, music, pictures, and videos. Laptop form-factor for document creation, editing, blogging, etc.

This would be the ideal in-between device (bigger than the iphone but not as large as a laptop). Thin and light enough to be something you would grab and take with you everywhere, unless you needed the full keyboard and screen real estate of a laptop (13, 15, or 17 inch).