Apple's ARM Plans in 2009? NetBooks, Tablets, Other?

[MacRumors]

A couple of speculative reports have come out about what plans Apple might have for its ARM-based processors in the coming year. Apple is rumored to be a major architectual licensee for ARM. This would offer Apple an added level of control and ownership over its processors. Apple presently uses the ARM processor in the iPhone and iPod Touch. Additional evidence has pointed to the fact that Apple acquired P.A. Semi specifically for their expertise in low-power processor development.

Computerworld blogger Seth Weintraub recently spoke with Bob Morris, director of platform enablement for ARM's mobile processor group, and believes that Apple will incorporate ARM processors in future netbooks and/or tablets. The newest ARM processors are said to have equal performance to Intel's Atom processor but dramatically lower power consumption:

We are talking Apples and Oranges here. Not double, but an order of magnitude better for ARM. Some ARM chips routinely use 10-20 times less power than Intel for similar operations. Battery usage with ARM chips in prospective netbooks could be measured in days, not hours – much like smartphones.

Meanwhile, Global Equities Research analyst takes it a step further by claiming that Apple will launch "a completely new device category" in the second half of 2009 based on chips produced by P.A. Semiconductor. Unfortunately, the credibility of the report is somewhat marred by the seemingly nonsensical statement that the new processors "will have the Objective-C instruction set built into the chip".

Regardless, Apple seems to have made some major moves in terms of custom processor development in 2008. While it's been assumed that these investments have been directed at the iPhone and iPod Touch, it's conceivable the technology will trickle to future devices.

Article Link: Apple's ARM Plans in 2009? NetBooks, Tablets, Other?

 

[pounce]

i can really see the arm chips being used by apple in new products. only seems to make sense and speak to the direction that they are heading.

 

[kolax]

I can see El Jobso changing is tune about netbooks at MacWorld.

 

[alexbates]

I would do anything for a cheap Mac tablet.

Is ARM completely different from an intel?

 

[alphaod]

Then we find out OS X has been living a triple life. PPC, x86, and RISC…

 

[notjustjay]

"Battery life measured in days, much like smartphones."

You mean like the iPhone?

 

[jasonbrennan]

I don't think we'll see many "netbooks" from Apple. They already have 3 models of notebooks as is, I don't think they'll expand (read: complicate) the lineup any more than that. What are netbooks anyway? Netbooks are low cost, low margin machines. Apple operates on very high margins. Why sell 4 netbooks when they could sell one MacbookPro. You know what the benefit of that is? You only have 1, not 4, customers to support. That and it's easier to operations to manufacture/ship/etc. It just makes more sense to have a slimmer lineup.

Expect these new chips to appear in iPods/iPhones. Battery life is their main concern at least with iPhone, so look to them to improve this dramatically over the coming years.

 

[jasonbrennan]

Then we find out OS X has been living a triple life. PPC, x86, and RISC…

Uhh, it does run a triple life. PPC, x86, and ARM (Darwin runs on all these platforms). With the nature of UNIX, it wouldn't shock me if they had Mac OS X running on most other platforms, at least internally.

 

[pete-01]

i'm guessing the "objective-c instruction set built on the chip" comment is the analyst not understanding how compiling works, and it just means they have developed an objective-c compiler for these chips.

 

[iOrlando]

but if there was going to be a completely new product line wouldnt we have heard some talk of it by now? if introduced next month at macworld?

 

[jaw04005]

I would do anything for a cheap Mac tablet.

Is ARM completely different from an intel?

Yes. It's a complete 180. It's more similar to PowerPC than x86.

 

[twoodcc]

i'll believe it when i see it.

but i hope i do see apple releasing these type of devices next year. i would love to have a tablet-like device that can also run apps from the app store, and that had a battery that lasted for days

 

[ibwb]

I don't know... has anyone profiled Objective-C performance on embedded hardware like the iPhone? Does it take a big performance hit from its run-time dynamic binding? If so, some hardware help in the form of additional CPU instructions could reduce overhead a lot.

 

[dguisinger]

i'm guessing the "objective-c instruction set built on the chip" comment is the analyst not understanding how compiling works, and it just means they have developed an objective-c compiler for these chips.

Wouldnt surprise me if they added acceleratation instructions for Objective-C. When using Objective-C, you pass messages instead of calling function pointers (in C++ or .NET), which is inheritly slower. In code that is heavily Obj-C you do have a performance penalty.

I could see Apple looking at adding Obj-C functionality to the instruction set; if you execute message passing at 2x the speed of a non-accelerated CPU, you get higher performance without raising the clock.

What these instructions would be or how they'd work, I'm not sure.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Then we find out OS X has been living a triple life. PPC, x86, and RISC…

PPC *is* RISC.

 

[Marx55]

Here it is (first picture):

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/next-apple-moves-will-be-books-and-games

ROCKING!!!

 

[dguisinger]

PPC *is* RISC.

To be fair, most RISC processors have become more CISC over the years. Very few RISC chips have their simplistic instruction sets anymore......and CISC processors like x86 actually decode their instructions into more simplistic RISC instructions before execution. What a strange world we live in

 

[Small White Car]

"Battery life measured in days, much like smartphones."

You mean like the iPhone?

Ha ha...yeah, not sure what product they're talking about there!


EDIT: Can someone tell me if I have this right?

Intel -> x86 -> Atom/CoreDuo
PA Semi -> RISC -> ARM

Do those categories line up? Or do I have that wrong? I'm not sure what any of these names are. That's how I currently understand it.

 

[mixedsig]

I would do anything for a cheap Mac tablet.

Is ARM completely different from an intel?

Yes, ARM instruction is completely different from x86 instruction set. They would need a virtualization to run x86 apps.

 

[dongmin]

too optimistic

Seems to me 2009 is too early for the investment in PA Semi to bear fruit...

But yes please. Sooner the better

 

[Rocketman]

ATNN. The common belief is Apple may release a larger display iPhone with more notebook like capabilities.

A generation skip could come from a device the has the pointer on it, but also has an optional heads-up display and voice activated OS.

Theater in an oversized iPhone and some glasses.

Remember when the iPhone was rumored very few of us were clearly saying phone was merely an app on a multi-function handheld computer with full web, multi-homing network, and application access. Now that reality is with us.

Next up . . ATNN.

Apple will redefine worldwide lifestyle.

Rocketman

 

[dongmin]

On the software side, will this Tablet use the iPhone OS or is Snow Leopard efficient enough to run on, let's say, a 800 mhz ARM system?

 

[zombitronic]

A quote from Steve Jobs:

“In the last recession, we were going to up our R&D budget so that we would be ahead of our competitors when the downturn was over… And it worked! That’s exactly what we’ll do this time!”

No doubt, there's been much R&D going on at Apple these days. I hope we get to witness the fruits of their labor soon. It doesn't seem that this recession is quite over yet, so they may still be pouring more of their cash-pile on research. Maybe it would make more sense to develop more and release a new product when people start spending again.

 

[Tallest Skil]

On the software side, will this Tablet use the iPhone OS or is Snow Leopard efficient enough to run on, let's say, a 800 mhz ARM system?

People already know what I want for the MacTablet, so I won't... fine, whatever:

13.3", slab format, MacBook Air internals, no ODD, no 3G built in (weirdos), no WiMAX (clueless), $1,999.

I think that setup is a fair bet, and with a 13.3" screen, it'd run the full OS X.

I think that anything larger than an iPhone that runs the iPhone OS is fairly useless. Just make a MacTablet that can have a full size (hence the screen) virtual keyboard, and then have it run OS X.

I'd bet that they could get Snow Leopard (or, hey, Leopard, please? I want this at MacWorld and we know Snow Leopard's not ready) running on an ARM like that. Heck, they had every version of OS X running natively on x86 internally at Apple.

 

[goldteef]

I didn't know that Apple was into Adjustable Rate Mortgages??

Wtf?

Dood, expect foreclosures to rise once the rate resets on a new MBP....

Stoopid....Stoopid....