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Apple's Craig Federighi: Uncertainty About Face ID Will 'Melt Away' Once People Get iPhone X

Apple reality distortion field is upgrading year after year.

I may just roll back to passcode if face ID is the new norm. I just don’t trust it over Touch ID.
 
WatchFromAfar said:
That's some bad maths for Christ sake. If touch ID is only good once out of 50,000 times then if Apple combined their technologies touch ID would still be only be good 1 out of 50.000 times. Adding something or different ways of doing things isn't going to make things better.

Also you would combine the two systems. So 1 out of 50,000 plus one out of a million. Why are you multiplying the two things together? Just so you get a big dumb number?
Click to expand...

Actually, he is right if your phone was using both systems to validate a face and and a finger [i.e. the finger first, that allows the faceID to be used if finger was successful ]and there is a 1:50,000 chance of a rogue finger opening the phone and then you needed a rogue face as well, then you do multiply the numbrs together. If it is one or the other used, then the number is the lower of the two probabilities
 
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ani4ani said:
Actually, he is right if your phone was using both systems to validate a face and and a finger [i.e. the finger first, that allows the faceID to be used if finger was successful ]and there is a 1:50,000 chance of a rogue finger opening the phone and then you needed a rogue face as well, then you do multiply the numbrs together. If it is one or the other used, then the number is the lower of the two probabilities
Click to expand...
Hmmm, stats...
I don't need 50.000 calculations to see when Apple salesmen are ly... ehh being overoptimistic
(so better ask your mother, as she produces your evil twin, to give it another fingerprint)
 
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Another explanation is that it simply failed, resulting in him using a secondary unit for the presentation, so Craig now is in damage control mode.
 
lederermc said:
I thought the idea of getting rid of the floppy drive was insane, then I thought getting rid of the optical drive was insane. Now I think getting rid of touch ID is insane. I assume I'm wrong again.
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Indeed - the universe would have collapsed if we'd still have phone jacks by now.
That is: Phil's.
 
ani4ani said:
Actually, he is right if your phone was using both systems to validate a face and and a finger [i.e. the finger first, that allows the faceID to be used if finger was successful ]and there is a 1:50,000 chance of a rogue finger opening the phone and then you needed a rogue face as well, then you do multiply the numbrs together. If it is one or the other used, then the number is the lower of the two probabilities
Click to expand...
Yes, technically that's true. Oh apart from there isn't an Apple device that lets you use touchID and faceID togeteher on the same device. Well those stats suddenly get reduced to 0 out of any number you can imagine now.
 
I've said it in a previous thread and I'll say it again - where does this leave macOS?

Some people went for the Touch Bar MacBook Pro models purely for Touch ID integration, now barely a year after purchase they're hearing that Apple is moving on from it? Face ID would require new FaceTime cameras to work on Macs, so no-one yet has a compatible model. I'd love to see a Magic Keyboard featuring Touch ID. Additionally, this news may impact developer interest in Touch ID on macOS, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of it being totally abandoned on the platform.

I'd like to see Touch ID live on, at least on Macs, despite the fact I think Face ID looks brilliant and I'll be pre-ordering an iPhone X on the 27th (happen to be off work that day anyway). I don't think Apple will bring it back to the iPhone, simply because it'd be akin to admitting they got Face ID 'wrong' and gave in to customer pressure - it'd be like putting the headphone jack back on.
 
I'm sure it will work fine and I understand it wasn't possible to implement touch ID under display at this time,but I really hope they work on that for the next version and give people both options.

there is no question that (even if face-id works flawlessly) touch ID is MUCH more convenient and easier to use with much less possibility of complication.

so they should give both options to people when they figure out how to put it under display glass.
 
Question: will FaceID be used for things like app purchases?
Because one of the useful things with TouchID is that you have control over it, for example, if you click to buy an app, you have a moment of control on deciding whether to put your finger on and activate TouchID, to confirm the purchase.
With FaceID, will it just authenticate immediately, without an intermediate confirmatory gesture or input? Could perhaps lead to accidental purchases?
 
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I'm perfectly willing to give FaceID the benefit of the doubt but right now the main thing that I think I'll miss is the ability to go straight to the home screen.

I really don't use notifications much, only for the essentials such as phone and messages and there I can easily see them waiting due to the badges on my home screen, and I love the way I can simply press the home button on my 6s and, because 2nd generation TouchID is so fast, be straight into my home screen. That extra swipe up to get to the home screen seems, to me at least, a backward step. Then again, a common complaint about TouchID that I've seen has been that it is too quick and that notifications can easily be missed so others will presumably be happy with this change.

The solution would seem to be to add an option in settings to go directly to the home screen if the user wants it that way. I'm sure Apple could work out some subtle indication that there are notifications to look at, maybe a "..." marker in the lower right hand corner of the screen, at the same height as the home button bar, that the user could tap or swipe up on to see missed notifications. Unfortunately Apple does seem really stubborn sometimes in offering customisation, e.g. how long it took to allow the mute/orientation-lock to be configured on the older iPads, but I take comfort in the fact that my concern could be very easily addressed in software so maybe an option to set the unlock behaviour might appear at some point.
 
BMcCoy said:
Question: will FaceID be used for things like app purchases?
Because one of the useful things with TouchID is that you have control over it, for example, if you click to buy an app, you have a moment of control on deciding whether to put your finger on and activate TouchID, to confirm the purchase.
With FaceID, will it just authenticate immediately, without an intermediate confirmatory gesture or input? Could perhaps lead to accidental purchases?
Click to expand...

That's an extremely good point. Even with TouchID I've had some quite narrow escapes with in-app purchases accessed from a store section of an installed app.
 
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I'd be really interested in one experiment just for the act of testing,
And I've like to learn this also.

1: Take two identical twins (and there are many around the world)
2: Find the their faces are near enough to fool Touch ID on the iPhone X (which Apple has admitted will happen)

Now see if they can unlock each others previous phones with Touch ID.

Be honest, they would be a fun test I hope I see tried.
 
joueboy said:
I don't remember any complaints or worries about TouchID if it's going to work or not.
Click to expand...

You don't have a very good memory. From "it will work one time out of ten" to "what if I am wearing glasses" to "robbers will cut your finger to unlock the phone" everything people are saying about Face ID they told in different forms for Touch ID.
 
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Piggie said:
I'd be really interested in one experiment just for the act of testing,
And I've like to learn this also.

1: Take two identical twins (and there are many around the world)
2: Find the their faces are near enough to fool Touch ID on the iPhone X (which Apple has admitted will happen)

Now see if they can unlock each others previous phones with Touch ID.

Be honest, they would be a fun test I hope I see tried.
Click to expand...
Remember when Apple were "computers for the rest of us", they don't care to provide a solution to a 1.5% use-case. If it works for the majority it's good enough.
 
It's a bit disappointing that even on a technology forum, a place where you would expect the readers and members to at least be capable of giving something the benefit of the doubt, that you see so much negative absolutism concerning the failure of FaceID. Apple may make mistakes in terms of daft design occasionally, but they take security very seriously.

Maybe wait a few months for tests and reviews instead of giving your unfounded opinions.
 
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WatchFromAfar said:
No you're just buying into the idea that Apple knows best and we shouldn't think for ourselves. HHhhnnn who was it that advocated we should "think different"
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Yeah but you don't realize that what you really want is for Apple to think like you want, so your point is moot. Who advocated "think different" is the same who said "give users what they need not what they want", so as far as company culture goes, there is coherence.
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CJM said:
It's a bit disappointing that even on a technology forum, a place where you would expect the readers and members to at least be capable of giving something the benefit of the doubt, that you see so much negative absolutism concerning the failure of FaceID. Apple may make mistakes in terms of daft design occasionally, but they take security very seriously.

Maybe wait a few months for tests and reviews instead of giving your unfounded opinions.
Click to expand...


Some people like to feel smart, I guess coming up with silly examples of why something they never used won't work make them feel smart. All they have to do is ignore the fact the 99% of their criticism is silly and the remaining 1% has already been solved by professional that have worked on the thing for years.
 
himanshumodi said:
The small difference is that if Touch ID didn't work as planned, there was always the good old pass code which people were used to. Workflow was always press home button first before entering a pass code. So if it unlocked in that first interaction, great. Else fallback was what was status quo.

With face Id, if it doesn't work as intended, alternative is the primitive pass code. Even if it does work, there are several use cases where Touch ID is better.

If they manage to get the in--the-screen Touch ID working like the current one, people will revert to that over face Id. Except for the wet finger use case. Face id can still exist for dual authentication during payments.
Click to expand...

I think it's quite clear at this point that Face ID is the successor to Touch ID. Too many benefits for Face ID.

Touch ID & Face ID are more than for just unlocking your phone when you pick it up. Right now I get prompted for Touch ID frequently. Working through notifications on the lock screen. Interacting with a widget from the today view. App needing Touch ID for authentication. Every time that happens it feels like an abrupt stop with a physical interaction needed; where with Face ID there's potential for it to not stop as it already knows I'm looking at the screen.
 
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TMRJIJ said:
Don’t think your math is correct on this.

Touch ID:
  1. Pick up phone
  2. Place Thumb on Home Button
  3. Press Home Button
Face ID:
  1. Pick up phone
  2. Smile :)
  3. Swipe up
Click to expand...
Actually there's an option for not pressing the home button to reach the main screen, so with Touch ID the minimum is two actions.

I guess Face ID will have that too.
 
joueboy said:
I don't remember any complaints or worries about TouchID if it's going to work or not. The only concern that I heard a lot the first time Apples introduced is security. A lot of questions that time how safe our fingerprints stored on iPhones, or concerns if the government could access the fingerprint data. Fingerprint technology is already a matured technology when Apple integrated it on iPhone. On the other hand facial recognition is a fallable technology. Although Apple has added some layers of technology but a lot of questions how accurate or how safe it is. Considering the fact that it already failed on day one of demo that raises more qiestion. So many unanswered questions and uncertainties about this technology. It will get better that's for sure but it takes time.
Click to expand...

Given that you are still under the impression that FaceID failed, it doesn’t sound as though you’ve looked very hard for answers to these questions.
 
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