Apples credibility is officially down the toilet.

[garp]

I'm not an investor? I have shares of Apple stock in my 401K as well as by themselves. I have every right to complain, and even customers, loyal or first-time, have every right to complain as well, even if they have a WORKING phone.

Company fraud headed by the CEO himself at a live news conference is nothing to laugh about. Sure, it isn't like they're poisoning us with carcinogenic chemicals and denying it. It isn't life or death. But it's freaking serious nonetheless and really makes me question Apple as a company.

He's up there lying to millions of users, news outlets, and doesn't seem to care. More frightening, neither do the majority of you. Perhaps it really is only a phone, and integrity and honesty from a CEO isn't to be expected anymore. That's a whole nother sad sad story...

So return your phone and sell your stock, it's a simple enough solution. If you don't believe in the company or its products, vote with your dollars. If enough people do that maybe you will be proved right. Sales will drop, stock prices will drop and you can drone on endlessly about how right you were.

As it stands, Millions of people have bought this phone since this whole storm in a teacup was created, and Apple still can't keep up with demand. To me that says that at least for now you are being out voted by people willing to give their hard earned money to Apple.

 

[takufu01]

Let's see how this shakes out

I believe that if the problem is great for such a large percentage of the folks who bought the Iphone4 and they return it than that will bear out that problem is widespread and warrants a recall....however....if now that Apple has offered an option and folks decide to keep their "problem" phones it will show that the problems wasn't as wide spread as it is being reported and that it was a lot of hype for alittle problem.....I know some folks are having signal problems without a doubt....however....now you have more options....and as a consumer thats all I can ask for......

 

[jambobowron]

Jesus Christ I wish people would stop saying "if you are unhappy with your iPhone 4, return it" THAT ISN'T THE POINT, NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE.

The point is, as a CEO, he knowingly DECEIVED and MANIPULATED users, investors, and the stock by not mentioning this issue earlier. I'm almost 2 hours from the nearest Apple store right now. I waited in line for 11 hours. I wouldn't have done ANY of that had I known about these issues beforehand. Millions of us wouldn't, and Steve knows that...his 0.5% data isn't fooling anyone.

The issue isn't returning it for a refund, even if it wasn't DEFECTIVE I could have done that anyway.

cool.

 

[vile]

Apples credibility is officially down the toilet.

No its not.
They admitted that their not perfect. I think they did a great job.
And you really have to love thos 1 $ bumper comments because those people I believe never even have seen a bumper. Cheap to produce? yes. 1 $ - no.
Stainless steel button, great design, Multiple parts of rubber. Its just not a single piece you wrap around. I have one even though I have no antenna issues (like most iphone4 users o: ) mostly because of the little bit O' protection and the better grip. And I also think it looks neat ^_^

 

[garp]

I'm now debating whether to sell every MacBook Pro I own and simply go back to Windows. I'm that disturbed by his arrogance.

Please do.

 

[Moyank24]

Oh, here we go with comparing defective phones to Nokia, Motorola, or any other company and what a user would do. "They'd just return it"

True, they/I would. But this isn't the same circumstance as other phones that fail in certain areas. This was a KNOWN defect and was covered up with bumpers, cases, "holding it wrong" emails etc for damn near a month. And just when the customers are expecting it to be acknowledged, the CEO of said company stands up to a crowd and throws the middle finger to every shareholder, customer, and blog crew on the internet.

Not cool. It's way more than "return your phone" (which I will be doing). I'm now debating whether to sell every MacBook Pro I own and simply go back to Windows. I'm that disturbed by his arrogance.

Have you never noticed his arrogance before? This isn't exactly new. It's who he is, and probably a huge part of why Apple has been so successful.

 

[desol8tor]

Bawstun: I'm not an investor? I have shares of Apple stock in my 401K as well as by themselves. I have every right to complain, and even customers, loyal or first-time, have every right to complain as well, even if they have a WORKING phone.

(i wonder how those shares of apple have performed since you've owned them? And how does that performance compare to other companies in your 401k? And based on that, will you be sending Steve a christmas card for personally carrying your 401k over the last 3 years?)

Bawstun: He's up there lying to millions of users, news outlets, and doesn't seem to care. More frightening, neither do the majority of you. Perhaps it really is only a phone, and integrity and honesty from a CEO isn't to be expected anymore. That's a whole nother sad sad story...

(would be interested in what stats that he was throwing out there you consider to be incorrect)

Put yourself in his shoes. You are about to release a product in which millions of people are going to buy. You know that there is an antenna issue but it's not groundbreakingly bad (other phones have it) and it's not like the phone is inoperable...what do you do? Warn/hold back the release, possibly throwing hundreds of millions of dollars immediately down the drain, or hazard the possibility of people picking up on it and then having to defuse it later?

It's not like Apple is the first company to "hide" something.

And to respond to people still complaining, I will quote Reservoir Dogs, one of my favorite movies.

"What? You want her to take you out back and suck your dick?"

 

[freejack]

Let's cut through the crap and examine the facts. Jobs admitted that the i4 drops more calls than the 3gs. At&t has come a long way in upgrading their network since the 3gs launched. I'm sure when they were comparing, they were using the aggregate number of dropped calls since the 3gs launch which had been much worse than it is now. The i4 has the luxury on launching on a more robust network yet it is STILL dropping more calls.

Given that knowledge, I can safely say that there is a considerably higher percentage of dropped calls on the i4 than Jobs is admitting to.

This press even was seriously full of crap and I know crap. I make it every day.

And this: "We love our users so much that we built 300 Apple retails stores for them to give them the best buying experience in the world"

More like "Our users love us so much that we built 300 Apple retail stores for them to worship our products in around the world."

 

[Bawstun]

I've always been an Apple fanboy but after seeing the overwhelmingly positive response from this 'press' conference (if you want to call it that, I call it a mockery, or a denial-conference), I'm starting to see what all the Microsoft lovers mean when they say Apple fans can't be reasoned with.

If you are so utterly consumed by love with your iP4 that you can't see what a fail this has been for Apple as a company and just how poorly you are being treated with their 'solution' (which is nothing more than flat out denial), then that's pretty damn sad.

He's giving you all a bumper that costs well under $1 to make. That's it. He STILL refuses to accept that the design is flawed, and even goes a step further and compares it to "the rest of the industry"

Perhaps we should ask him why Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Sony and others aren't giving free cases away for all of their phones, for every model. Since, you know, it's just where the industry is at right now.

Unbelievable.

 

[sandyjmacdonald]

Jesus Christ I wish people would stop saying "if you are unhappy with your iPhone 4, return it" THAT ISN'T THE POINT, NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE.

The point is, as a CEO, he knowingly DECEIVED and MANIPULATED users, investors, and the stock by not mentioning this issue earlier. I'm almost 2 hours from the nearest Apple store right now. I waited in line for 11 hours. I wouldn't have done ANY of that had I known about these issues beforehand. Millions of us wouldn't, and Steve knows that...his 0.5% data isn't fooling anyone.

The issue isn't returning it for a refund, even if it wasn't DEFECTIVE I could have done that anyway.

It is that simple. If you don't like it, then return it, and stop whining about it.

 

[Jare]

I've always been an Apple fanboy but after seeing the overwhelmingly positive response from this 'press' conference (if you want to call it that, I call it a mockery, or a denial-conference), I'm starting to see what all the Microsoft lovers mean when they say Apple fans can't be reasoned with.

If you are so utterly consumed by love with your iP4 that you can't see what a fail this has been for Apple as a company and just how poorly you are being treated with their 'solution' (which is nothing more than flat out denial), then that's pretty damn sad.

He's giving you all a bumper that costs well under $1 to make. That's it. He STILL refuses to accept that the design is flawed, and even goes a step further and compares it to "the rest of the industry"

Perhaps we should ask him why Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Sony and others aren't giving free cases away for all of their phones, for every model. Since, you know, it's just where the industry is at right now.

Unbelievable.

What's actually unbelievable is that you nor anyone else can seem to appreciate just owning something that they like. If you don't like it don't own it.

My iP4 has the death grip but not once has it affected my calls and 0 dropped calls to date. I have no issue with it, along with everyone else in real life that I know.

The percentage is small and a solution is offered. Move on, please.

 

[ntrigue]

Where are your Genius Bar rates, Jobs? I didn't call Applecare but I'm having major problems.

 

[sandyjmacdonald]

I thought it was a software issue? (sarcasm) Kind of funny how Apple flat out lied to the public. It's a design flaw. Sure other phones lose some reception but I have yet to see any that lose complete signal when gel wrong.

They didn't lie. There was a software issue with the mapping of signal strength to the number of bars displayed. They fixed it.

Now they've admitted that there is a problem (for some people, not me) with the antenna, and have offered free bumpers or a full refund.

I really can't understand people's problem here.

 

[buc]

I've always been an Apple fanboy but after seeing the overwhelmingly positive response from this 'press' conference (if you want to call it that, I call it a mockery, or a denial-conference), I'm starting to see what all the Microsoft lovers mean when they say Apple fans can't be reasoned with.

If you are so utterly consumed by love with your iP4 that you can't see what a fail this has been for Apple as a company and just how poorly you are being treated with their 'solution' (which is nothing more than flat out denial), then that's pretty damn sad.

He's giving you all a bumper that costs well under $1 to make. That's it. He STILL refuses to accept that the design is flawed, and even goes a step further and compares it to "the rest of the industry"

Perhaps we should ask him why Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Sony and others aren't giving free cases away for all of their phones, for every model. Since, you know, it's just where the industry is at right now.

Unbelievable.

Why exactly am i being treated poorly?

My phone works great. I have yet to drop a single call due to the antenna problem, and i in fact get better reception in more places than i got with my 3G. Everything else about it is wonderful, the screen, the camera, movies, etc. etc. Even CR rated it the best phone on the market despite the antenna issue (which, as a reminder, hasn't affected me).

My only issue with the phone is the proximity sensor, and i trust they will fix that problem at some point. If not, at that point in time i'll make a decision on what to do, but honestly i consider that a minor annoyance as it's only happened to me 3 times on over 100 calls.

There is certainly someone in this thread that "can't be reasoned with", but i'm thinking you're a bit confused on who that is.

 

[sandyjmacdonald]

Please do.

+1

 

[baller1308]

Jesus Christ I wish people would stop saying "if you are unhappy with your iPhone 4, return it" THAT ISN'T THE POINT, NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE.

The point is, as a CEO, he knowingly DECEIVED and MANIPULATED users, investors, and the stock by not mentioning this issue earlier. I'm almost 2 hours from the nearest Apple store right now. I waited in line for 11 hours. I wouldn't have done ANY of that had I known about these issues beforehand. Millions of us wouldn't, and Steve knows that...his 0.5% data isn't fooling anyone.

The issue isn't returning it for a refund, even if it wasn't DEFECTIVE I could have done that anyway.

It is the point. You're not satisfied with a product, it's not meeting your needs and expectations, so return it. You're not forced to use the product. How do you know Steve knew about the issue before hand? From a story you read? He clearly said that the story was BS. If he did know of the issue beforehand, I'm sure it wouldn't have gone in to production. Look at the kind of press the issue has produced, he would have avoided it if possible.

How do you know the data is fabricated? The data reflects the amount of people that have called AppleCare and equals 165k based on 3M sold.

The only thing I wished would have happened, is if they extended the window for returning the iPhone. I didn't get it on the day of, but it's creeping really close to the 30 day window. By the time you sign up and get the free case you won't have long to test it. An extension to 45 or 60 days would have been nice.

 

[vespagirl]

It's like a prison yard in here now.
"Just Return It" vs "He's Lying!"
No one wins.

I joined MacRumors because I thought it would be a good forum for Mac users. But now issues surrounding one device are causing lots of in-fighting and venom. WTF? Seems like no matter what was said at the press conference, it wouldn't be enough for some people. And since when is customer loyalty such a fatal flaw in a person?

"Nothing is ever good enough. If you gave a group of people each a free red Porsche, one half would complain because it was red and the other half would complain because it was a Porsche."

 

[HommePomme]

Let's cut through the crap and examine the facts. Jobs admitted that the i4 drops more calls than the 3gs. At&t has come a long way in upgrading their network since the 3gs launched. I'm sure when they were comparing, they were using the aggregate number of dropped calls since the 3gs launch which had been much worse than it is now. The i4 has the luxury on launching on a more robust network yet it is STILL dropping more calls.

Given that knowledge, I can safely say that there is a considerably higher percentage of dropped calls on the i4 than Jobs is admitting to.

This press even was seriously full of crap and I know crap. I make it every day.

And this: "We love our users so much that we built 300 Apple retails stores for them to give them the best buying experience in the world"

More like "Our users love us so much that we built 300 Apple retail stores for them to worship our products in around the world."

I wonder how many dropped calls are from everyone trying to make it drop...

 

[dictation]

How is 3 million units with plenty of people on a list for a 3-4 week wait to get one a fail? If you don't like the product, what do you want besides your money back? The soup quote is hilarious. Apple has already said that they aren't perfect and they are willing to do something to help. This is a company that issued people $100 refunds for their phones after a price drop (original iPhone launch). Which other company would do that?

For the people complaining they obvious haven't dealt with Blackberry's design flaws. The flaws in the iPhone have been brought to media attention more so than any other phone in history just because of all the hype and owners out there. Did you here about all the design flaws in the Blackberry Bold when it first came out? It wouldn't even run half the time. How about the Blackberry Storm... How soon was a new version out on the market? You didn't hear about those "failures" because not as many people bought it when it released. So by the time those phones had a significant market share they had already released new phones under the same name. So many people just returned their Storms and Bolds when it first came out. Why should it be different for Apple? Just return it if you don't like it that is why there is a 30 day return policy on wireless accounts and devices.

Bawtsun: Saying that Apple fans can't be reasoned with is like calling the kettle black. How many windows users kept using Vista even though they knew it was crap. How about running an aged OS like Windows XP, that was never all that great to begin with, until 2014. Lets even leave the realm of computers. Lets look at all the Xbox360 fans that bought replacement units after their original ones overheated and died due to a very big design flaw. Could you return your 360 after it died a year in due to a design flaw? I personally have had 6 warranty replacement 360s and refuse to buy a new one if this last one dies.

 

[naths]

what a joke of a conference...nothing said we already knew...."buy a bumber"...."yes sir messiah jobs".......it wont surprise me if the totally redesigned iphone5 is out well before next june...big cock up apple...should have tested first....as if a so-called testing room reflects the real world...please please get it right next time..

 

[random person]

Simmer down, people. Jobs did not lie. He flat out admitted there was a problem, and moreover he talked about the design issue referring to the gap as a kind of "bullseye" -- practically begging people to touch the antenna right at the point where it was most vulnerable. If that's not admitting to a design flaw, I don't know what is.

He reiterated his concern for customers, and yes his contempt for the press who did throw gasoline on the problem. He was open with actual data about people who had reported the problem -- and really, what is wrong with that? He reported the data he had -- if many people had the problem but didn't report it (like me!), whose fault is that? And he came up with a remedy for those who want it (the case program.)

We need to put this all behind us and move on. I am still a loyal Apple customer and consider them to be the only truly innovative technology company out there. I'm not ashamed to be an Apple fan.

 

[pugnut]

So what you're saying is, he's lying to shareholders and regulators about return rates from both Apple AND AT&T?

The accuracy of his data shouldn't be hard to verify. People just haven't bothered because you get more page views and digg-ups out of showing no bars, or linking to funny parody songs, and NOT by having to report that data SJ showed is valid.

I can only gather two comclusions from this:

1. There's really NOT a lot of people affected by this, or

2. People have forgotten that forums like these AREN'T official tech support for Apple, and if you want them to stand up and take notice, posting here isn't the place to do it.

You are correct re the data, you can be sure that every word was vetted by the attorneys specifically for the investor community. Fact is he correct, they continue to sell out and the demand is strong- If you have a issue with yours return it, and be gone.

BTW and for the record- I am an investor , have been for years

 

[ScKcBc]

So what you're saying is, he's lying to shareholders and regulators about return rates from both Apple AND AT&T?

The accuracy of his data shouldn't be hard to verify. People just haven't bothered because you get more page views and digg-ups out of showing no bars, or linking to funny parody songs, and NOT by having to report that data SJ showed is valid.

I can only gather two comclusions from this:

1. There's really NOT a lot of people affected by this, or

2. People have forgotten that forums like these AREN'T official tech support for Apple, and if you want them to stand up and take notice, posting here isn't the place to do it.

FYI, There are ALOT of people that have the problem that dont get involved in the online arguments or call in because we know what's going on. I have 3 iphone 4's on my account, all with the same problem. I havent posted in 1 thread about it, nor have I called apple about it. Why should I call apple when I've read 50+ posts of other people sitting on hold for 20 mins just to be told some BS ??? I've been patiently waiting to hear a response from apple and it's easy to see what it is because everyone on here is so quick to make new threads about new things.

Am I returning the phone? No.
Will I accept a free bumper to alleviate the issue? Yes.
Am I satisfied with this fix? No.
Am I going to whine about it on a forum? No.

I still enjoy many other features of the phone and I'm going to deal with the calls dropping. I'm more annoyed with my prox sensor being so sensitive and 3 way calling people by accident, which happens all the time. Or putting people on mute, or creating new contacts, etc... Thats more of a PITA. There should be an App to go to after making a call that is just a blank screen.



So don't assume there aren't more people out there. There is probably over 2 million people with iphones NOT on this forum. I know 9 other people right now with the iphone 4 and about 30+ with regular iphones and not one of them is on this forum. All 9 people with 4's plus myself (with 3 problematic phones) have not called. We've all been keeping tabs online of what's going on.

 

[StuddedLeather]

I honestly LOVE how alot of people missed the part where he admitted there's an issue with the antenna. Did you run to the restroom, or started to make breakfast when he said this?
Aside from Apple I would like to ask a question. . . if you buy a T.V and it doesn't work like you want it to, do you return or just let it sit there?

People seem to like stuff that doesn't work nowadays
The people I've come in contact with, owning the IP4 love the device and this whole issue is starting to become just for the internet.

If you're having problems with your phone, why do you still have it donkey?

 

[kirkbross]

You're holding it wrong

I'm sure this has been said but the problem (and insult) lies in "you're holding it wrong" and then trying to make it into a (obviously much cheaper for Apple) "reception bar formula" software fix. Der.

Apple knows that I know that you know that Steve Jobs knows that it's a HARDWARE issue, so cut to the chase... fix it and offer exchanges and eat the loss. How much oil is really flowing into the Gulf?

What's shocking is that the antenna design made it past all phases of design and testing.