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Apple's decision regarding Mac Mini BTO option pricing is immoral and unethical
- Thread starter johnnowak
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basically, my point is, apple can't complain to be regarded as if they did this intentionally to milk some money from the initial rush of BTO orders. because that's exactly what it looks like.
if they want to dispell that, they should provide an explanation. if they don't want to dispell it, that's apple's prerogative. but i think that's a very bad PR move.
remember, this product didn't exist at all until two weeks ago. this isn't some price drop on long existing products.
if they want to dispell that, they should provide an explanation. if they don't want to dispell it, that's apple's prerogative. but i think that's a very bad PR move.
remember, this product didn't exist at all until two weeks ago. this isn't some price drop on long existing products.
Let's keep in mind that this doesn't really apply to minis bought in brick-n-mortar stores, since basically none of them had upgrades around except for the 512MB RAM one, the price of which hasn't changed. Also, most of the minis in the queue from the online Store haven't shipped yet. I doubt that many at all BTO minis have shipped.
So, of the small number of BTO minis that added 1GB sticks and/or a SuperDrive (and AE/BT, but that is a negligible price drop), a small number have shipped, and they're all qualified for a refund.
Why anyone would pay over $1000 for a mini (if they're upping it to 1GB or adding a SuperDrive, you can bet they bought the $600 model) is beyond me, and even those people can get their money back.
How much extra do you think Apple's going to get off the few who don't bother to get their money refunded and whose tricked-out minis have shipped? $100,000? That is not even worth bothering over for Apple, esp. given the possible bad publicity.
The price drops are because nobody was upgrading the mini, not because vast hordes were doing so.
So, of the small number of BTO minis that added 1GB sticks and/or a SuperDrive (and AE/BT, but that is a negligible price drop), a small number have shipped, and they're all qualified for a refund.
Why anyone would pay over $1000 for a mini (if they're upping it to 1GB or adding a SuperDrive, you can bet they bought the $600 model) is beyond me, and even those people can get their money back.
How much extra do you think Apple's going to get off the few who don't bother to get their money refunded and whose tricked-out minis have shipped? $100,000? That is not even worth bothering over for Apple, esp. given the possible bad publicity.
The price drops are because nobody was upgrading the mini, not because vast hordes were doing so.
Ok I just got off the phone with Apple, here's the skinny:
My two built to order Minis, which haven't shipped yet, were automatically reduced in priced, and I hadn't even been billed yet for them since they hadn't shipped yet. I got the 4x SuperDrive upgraded to the 8x, and the woman on the phone said something to the effect of, "I'm sure they probably would have done that anyway even if you didn't call."
NERD RAGE!!!
Also, I just recieved this email:
My two built to order Minis, which haven't shipped yet, were automatically reduced in priced, and I hadn't even been billed yet for them since they hadn't shipped yet. I got the 4x SuperDrive upgraded to the 8x, and the woman on the phone said something to the effect of, "I'm sure they probably would have done that anyway even if you didn't call."
NERD RAGE!!!
Also, I just recieved this email:
So you're saying the priced it high, and because no one bought it, they dropped it?
If that's the case, I guess I can't blame Apple, just capitalism in general.
If that's the case, I guess I can't blame Apple, just capitalism in general.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
jsw said:
that's exactly why apple should issue a blanket refund to all BTO buyers affected and, at the very least issue an explanation. that "chump" change mean a lot more to the buyers than to apple.
edit: i see that apple did exactly this for at least one person, io_burn. i assume they will do this for everyone who ordered relevant BTO options. i sure hope so.
johnnowak said:
You're talking about a company that just posted a net profit of $295 million for the first quarter. And your theory is that this price drop was a "scam" calculated to get maybe $100,000, if that, off their customers. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm somewhat skeptical.
jsw is right on. There is a much simpler, much less paranoid, much more plausible explanation for this. That Apple was getting lots of stock mini orders but not as many custom orders as they wanted/expected. So they lowered the price to make it a more attractive option. But no, what am I saying... it must have been a trick to screw the "faithful" for an extra .03% profit this quarter.
jxyama said:
If they do this automatically to all people who bought it online, then I'm fine with it. In fact, it's a good thing.
io_burn said:
Hmmmm....tally it up:
Apple releases products aimed squarely at people who need a low cost entry to OS X.
Apple lowers the pricing on BTO options.
Apple proactively makes the price adjustment effective on all orders.
Clearly, the Apocalypse is upon us!
That's it. I'm switching to Windows!
It probably cost them more in changing the advertisments, web page, updating dealers, etc than they made in the money they got from these early adopters. You just disproved your own argument. Why would they do it? As jsw said, it probably because no one was buying the upgrades, and those that did haven't even received them yet.johnnowak said:
Edit: glad to see you're letting it go.
jxyama said:
Issue an explanation for lowering prices? Um, no, that's ok. They can lower prices every day of the week and not explain themselves to me.
Now if prices went UP maybe I'd care about getting an explanation...edit: yes, I too am glad to see that perhaps we're all almost ready to let apple slide on this one.
I think we're done here. QCassidy352 said:
Possibly. But hey, someone has to be the paranoid one. The paranoid are occasionally the only ones who know what's actually going on.
QCassidy352 said:You're talking about a company that just posted a net profit of $295 million for the first quarter. And your theory is that this price drop was a "scam" calculated to get maybe $100,000, if that, off their customers. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm somewhat skeptical.
jsw is right on. There is a much simpler, much less paranoid, much more plausible explanation for this. That Apple was getting lots of stock mini orders but not as many custom orders as they wanted/expected. So they lowered the price to make it a more attractive option. But no, what am I saying... it must have been a trick to screw the "faithful" for an extra .03% profit this quarter.
hey, whatever the reason, you can't fault those who are affected by this for thinking the way they do. it may sound stupid or an overreaction to you, but i don't think so for those who are monetarily invested. if apple doesn't take retroactive action like they did with io_burn, people have legitimate reasons to be suspectful of apple and i don't find that unreasonable at all.
Serenity now, serenity now...
Hey johnnowak take a deep breath and try to relax man. As some have said here Apple made the announcement within 10 days of the first batch of Mac Mini's shipping, if Apple really wanted to screw people wouldn't they wait a couple of weeks and then drop the price? Sure some people may not be aware of the price protection policy but that is part of being an informed buyer.
Besides who says this was something that was entirely within Apple's control? I mean prices fluctuate all the time on computer components it is all supply and demand. This time Apple decided to act sooner than later to reduce prices. What happens when you go to the supermarket and by a piece of fruit for $1 and then the next week prices drop so that same piece of fruit is now 50 cents? Are you going to rant and rave? Supply and demand that is all it is.
Hey johnnowak take a deep breath and try to relax man. As some have said here Apple made the announcement within 10 days of the first batch of Mac Mini's shipping, if Apple really wanted to screw people wouldn't they wait a couple of weeks and then drop the price? Sure some people may not be aware of the price protection policy but that is part of being an informed buyer.
Besides who says this was something that was entirely within Apple's control? I mean prices fluctuate all the time on computer components it is all supply and demand. This time Apple decided to act sooner than later to reduce prices. What happens when you go to the supermarket and by a piece of fruit for $1 and then the next week prices drop so that same piece of fruit is now 50 cents? Are you going to rant and rave? Supply and demand that is all it is.
QCassidy352 said:Issue an explanation for lowering prices? Um, no, that's ok. They can lower prices every day of the week and not explain themselves to me.
oh come on, give me a break. it's effectively a price raise for those who paid the higher price. if the price goes down but you were charged the higher amount, that's not a price drop for you, is it? you'd still not want an explanation?
DanTheMan said:
i don't want to be a thread police and counter every point, but choosing to lower the price of a mac is entirely within the control of apple. if component prices rise, then apple may not have much choise but to raise the price, but apple has 100% control over whether to charge more for their products.
the fruit example misses the point. there's an industry understanding, significant precedent that new computer hardware usually keep their value/price for at least a few months. if you pre-ordered a brand new model car today at $20k with $5k option and two weeks from now, the option price drops to $3k, wouldn't you complain?
Apple have been accused (and rightly so) of an awful lot of things in regard to their customers in the past, but to ascribe an intention to fleece the buying public in the form of, at most, a few thousand early adopters of a small amount each is really jumping to a pretty unlikely conclusion - particularly since the cost of dealing with customer complaints and refunds under the well published price protection policy would eat into the small 'profit' such a move could hope to make.
There are far more reasonable (and commercially level headed) reasons for Apple to have taken this action at this time.
Bear in mind firstly that the price hasn't changed one cent on what appears to be the most common Mini configurations - the basic 1.25 and 1.4GHz models themselves, and the 512Mb upgrades. If you assume these are the most common configurations (and it's at least as reasonable a supposition as John's claim to intentional dishonesty) then the majority of early adopters aren't affected at all. I wish they were - mine is a 1.25/512 model when they get round to making it. In any event, the number of purchasers who were 'caught out' by the deception are going to be rather small - and limited to only those who have a Mini in their possession as of today with a Superdrive or 1Gb RAM or Airport AND Bluetooth.
Would one imagine for one minute that some marketting/finance guy in Cupertino didn't realise that after 3 or 4 days scamming the public, with inflated prices, a price drop wouldn't cause enough of a ripple to create public comment - at least enough public comment to make a proportion of the early adopters who'd been fleeced aware of the fact and thus jump into price protection claims? If Apple are dishonest and deceptive, they must be extraordinarilly good at it to have been in business for so long in this volatile inductry - and certainly not stupid too. But it WOULD be stupid to build a deliberate and inflationary policy around such a small potential gain.
So if that wasn't the cause - speculate on what might have been. I would suggest an alternative that has Apple monitoring what the public and media have been saying about the Mini since it was announced, and particularly noting the comparisons being made between it and the sub-$500 PC models currently available - and particularly to the rather critical comments regarding how much the Mini LOOKS to be a good deal until you start adding the extras in to bring it up the the level of specification of other systems which cost less. I would suggest to the original poster that Apple are not stupid enough to realise that such comments if repeated often enough, will begin to leech sales, and the limelight, away from the Mini and thus risk stalling the whole 'low cost Mac' initiative.
I think Apple have had the chance to look at production costs, component sourcing and the level of take up and demand for this product, and have adjusted prices to help the Mini meet it's intended market target. I also think that if APple wanted to fleece it's customers to better effect, there are FAR better ways they could have done it to make far more money at far less risk of being caught out.
There are far more reasonable (and commercially level headed) reasons for Apple to have taken this action at this time.
Bear in mind firstly that the price hasn't changed one cent on what appears to be the most common Mini configurations - the basic 1.25 and 1.4GHz models themselves, and the 512Mb upgrades. If you assume these are the most common configurations (and it's at least as reasonable a supposition as John's claim to intentional dishonesty) then the majority of early adopters aren't affected at all. I wish they were - mine is a 1.25/512 model when they get round to making it. In any event, the number of purchasers who were 'caught out' by the deception are going to be rather small - and limited to only those who have a Mini in their possession as of today with a Superdrive or 1Gb RAM or Airport AND Bluetooth.
Would one imagine for one minute that some marketting/finance guy in Cupertino didn't realise that after 3 or 4 days scamming the public, with inflated prices, a price drop wouldn't cause enough of a ripple to create public comment - at least enough public comment to make a proportion of the early adopters who'd been fleeced aware of the fact and thus jump into price protection claims? If Apple are dishonest and deceptive, they must be extraordinarilly good at it to have been in business for so long in this volatile inductry - and certainly not stupid too. But it WOULD be stupid to build a deliberate and inflationary policy around such a small potential gain.
So if that wasn't the cause - speculate on what might have been. I would suggest an alternative that has Apple monitoring what the public and media have been saying about the Mini since it was announced, and particularly noting the comparisons being made between it and the sub-$500 PC models currently available - and particularly to the rather critical comments regarding how much the Mini LOOKS to be a good deal until you start adding the extras in to bring it up the the level of specification of other systems which cost less. I would suggest to the original poster that Apple are not stupid enough to realise that such comments if repeated often enough, will begin to leech sales, and the limelight, away from the Mini and thus risk stalling the whole 'low cost Mac' initiative.
I think Apple have had the chance to look at production costs, component sourcing and the level of take up and demand for this product, and have adjusted prices to help the Mini meet it's intended market target. I also think that if APple wanted to fleece it's customers to better effect, there are FAR better ways they could have done it to make far more money at far less risk of being caught out.