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Apple's decision regarding Mac Mini BTO option pricing is immoral and unethical

What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.

Apple has a price match/price guarantee policy just like most retailers do, but if you don't notice that it went on sale, then it's your loss if you don't go back in (or call) to get the difference refunded to you. 99% of stores aren't going to just give it to you out of the goodness of their hearts. :p Geez, this is such a non issue it's not even funny...
 
jxyama said:
ha ha, that's pretty funny. but i don't think it matters much. it does look a bit "wrong."
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I guess 'a bit wrong' is better than 'immoral and unethical' then?!

I think almost everything about the Mac Mini is an issue of marketing, and that Apple knows it can't afford to have the product out there if it doesn't look sharply competitive. I think they know that Dell, HP and the other box-builders will jump as fast as possible to drop low-cost Mini-beaters into the market and that the Mini will only hold sales if it 'appears' to offer a competitive product that has value-added status in comparison to cheap PCs. I don't believe Apple can drop the price of the basic Mini units, at least not right now unless they are prepared to eat into the company's cash reserve, and I don't think they want to if they can avoid it. Instead, I think they want to create a sense of added value by making the options look like a better deal and thus helping to discourage the negative impact of 'still too expensive' talk in the press.

I also think Apple were surprised by the slant of much of the initial media feedback that instead of being amazed at the quality and style of the Mini and how much bang it gave for the buck, focussed much more tightly on the comparison with $300-$500 PCs. However one might argue those PCs are underpowered and lesser value, the Mini's target marget don't actually see that sort of thing - for many (if not most) it's the number on the price ticket that counts. So Apple reduced that number - not by much, but by what they hope is enough to rebalance the comparitive market.
 
Lancetx said:
What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.
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No doubt. I plunked down $1499 on a 27" lcd hdtv this fall and a month later the Christmas sales began. It was $1199. Other than "Damn, I shoulda seen that coming", all I could do was shrug... and that was $300... - j
 
johnnowak said:
Apple has just dropped the prices significantly for BTO options on the new Mac Mini (US only apparently):
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050125124129.shtml

The value of these options has not significantly changed in the past two weeks. This appears to be an attempt by Apple to gouge the Mac fanatics they knew would buy right away and buy with a lot of extras added. After all the early adopters (the ones most likely to max them out) got their computers, they dropped the insane prices on the BTO options before too many people realized how insane they actually were.

Even if they do offer to pay the difference to those who bought one earlier, most will not even be aware of the BTO options price drop, and will possibly be out over a hundred dollars or more. This is blatantly unethical behavior by Apple, and unless Apple can provide a solution to this problem and prove what happened was not an intentional way to squeeze more money out of the initial surge of customers, my current mac will by my last.

*has no time for capitalists*
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I'm sorry I don't have time to read this whole thread, so forgive me if somebody has said this... but give me a break! You don't like the prices, you don't buy it! No 'early adopter' was forced into buying ANYTHING. Dropping the prices is always a good thing. Nobody will be 'out over a hundred dollars or more', because a) (most importantly) they AGREED TO THAT PRICE when they bought it and forked over the dough! and b) they'll probably get the refund anyway.
 
Lancetx said:
What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.

Apple has a price match/price guarantee policy just like most retailers do, but if you don't notice that it went on sale, then it's your loss if you don't go back in (or call) to get the difference refunded to you. 99% of stores aren't going to just give it to you out of the goodness of their hearts. :p Geez, this is such a non issue it's not even funny...
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that not what people are tick about. that bugs people it more apple droping the price so soon after the release. I would not be surpised if they neted them selves a several extra K after it all said and done by doing this since a vaste majority of people WILL not call in and get it changed. It does not take much to add it up.

I pretty sure apple did this on purpose. Drop the price right after they started shipping to get some extra money out of the majority of people who got the upgrades but did not know about the price change or dont want to bother going though with it.
 
I bought my Mac from comp usa a few years back. The price dropped two weeks later. I told the sales rep, i was refunded the difference, everyone is happy. I think apple should and will refund the difference.
 
jxyama said:
i don't want to be a thread police and counter every point, but choosing to lower the price of a mac is entirely within the control of apple. if component prices rise, then apple may not have much choise but to raise the price, but apple has 100% control over whether to charge more for their products.

the fruit example misses the point. there's an industry understanding, significant precedent that new computer hardware usually keep their value/price for at least a few months. if you pre-ordered a brand new model car today at $20k with $5k option and two weeks from now, the option price drops to $3k, wouldn't you complain?
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So what would you call rebates then on new cars, happens all the time. My point is that there may have been a pricing scheme in place before the official release and now for whatever reason Apple is getting those same components for less. What Apple pays for something is not entirely in their control, prices have to be negotiated. Why are you faulting Apple for passing on savings and lowering their price to benefit the consumer?
 
It's always fun to hear "ethical" and "marketing" in the same sentence.

You have much to much time on your hands.


  1. They have a new product.
  2. Upgrade prices with Apple are astronomical as usual.
  3. They recieve many complaints, maybe from PC users.
  4. They lower the pricing for upgrades from astronomical to stratospherical.

Congratulations, Apple, and thank you!

But I still think I'll do the RAM and HD upgrade myself, as would most early adopters do, contrary to what the original poster said.
 
za9ra22 said:
I guess 'a bit wrong' is better than 'immoral and unethical' then?!
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right in my first post in this thread, i said this isn't a matter of "immoral or unethical." :rolleyes:
 
DanTheMan said:
So what would you call rebates then on new cars, happens all the time. My point is that there may have been a pricing scheme in place before the official release and now for whatever reason Apple is getting those same components for less. What Apple pays for something is not entirely in their control, prices have to be negotiated. Why are you faulting Apple for passing on savings and lowering their price to benefit the consumer?
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price of parts and such does not fluctuate much in two weeks. at least not so much that it warrants an actual price change and associated costs to go with it. if apple was so sensitive and flexible about adjusting prices, why don't you ask our non-U.S. members here how often apple adjusts the prices for changing currency exchange rates? apple adjusts the price of foreign products once every half a year or so. and those are much easier to quantify and happens on a daily basis.

this isn't apple passing on the savings. it's probably lowering the price to drive demand, but at the same time, pissing off some of the earlier buyers. whatever the case, this isn't quite the same thing as seeing the price of a fruit dropping at a grocery store, or the car example i gave, which apparently is incorrect.
 
Apple was getting slammed/lambasted by people on the price of the Mini Upgrades.

With this change, they can say they are doing something about it... even if it still ends up costing quite a bit.
 
Buyer's Responsibility

In my opinion, anyone who buys a product with a price guarantee (like Apple offers) bears the responsibility for monitoring the sale price of that item for the duration of the price guarantee period.

Those who fail to monitor the sales price and are therefore unaware of a subsequent price reduction have nobody but themselves to blame for losing the opportunity for a refund.
 
What a bizzare thread...immoral and unethical...week to week the world's biggest PC producer Dell change their deals with no protection for existing customers...are we calling this one a Troll Thread? ;)
 
johnnowak said:
Well it hurts Apple. They're not getting my money.

Besides... It's a moral issue. If people don't "vote" with their dollars, then we have absolutely no control over what corporations do. If you buy whatever is the cheapest or best for you, then don't complain when companies like Wal*Mart start destroying the country. Just because Wal*Mart's products are the cheapest doesn't mean I can morally justify buying stuff from them. Same for Apple. If they're going to take advantage of consumers, I cannot morally justify giving them any money.

Besides, NetBSD runs fine on my Powerbook.
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So you'll never buy from a car manufacturer because they added features or a rebate after you bought? I understand that the issue is that the Mac mini is only two weeks old. But reports are that Apple is refunding the price difference to the consumers. That may not make up for the *x DVD (or maybe not based on the double talk that some are getting). In the end it may take a day or so. or week or so, but I am sure that Apple will take care of those that express in a nice calm voice their displeasure.
 
johnnowak said:
Ram isn't exactly in low supply nowadays. If *we* can get it for $230, I see no reason why apple was charging $450+. Be reasonable.
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Evidently you have a limited understanding how some stores price their goods. Apple was able to charge $450 because the consumer was willing to pay that price overall. There those like you and I that know better. But some don't.

The shame of the initial 1gb pricing was that Apple stated that RAM could only be installed as a BTO. Unlike most other Macs that allowed the users to decide on their own.

The other price drops were just a market adjustment based on initial BTO orders. Apple research probably showed that x% of units would be upgraded with y parts. When it did not happen with the initial orders they decided to take action. And based on comments on the MR, are refunding the difference.
 
johnnowak said:
Have you confirmed this? Even for those who placed the very first orders?
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Have you taken the time to look at the thread that was dedicated to the price drops? Plenty of reports over there.

I understand your frustration. Maybe I missed it , but did you actually order/buy a Mac mini BEFORE the price drops?
 
johnnowak said:
I am saying what Apple did was wrong because they artificially inflated the price for a very short period of time with the intention of screwing early adopters, getting a few extra bucks, and perhaps getting rid of some old Superdrives.
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Do you have absolute proof of this? Where is the "smoking gun". All we have is a company that within their price adjustment policy decided to lower the pricing.

No problem.
 
johnnowak said:
Possibly. But hey, someone has to be the paranoid one. The paranoid are occasionally the only ones who know what's actually going on.
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But in the end there are many more serious issues to be paranoid over in the real world. Most of which are better off in the Political Forum.

Glad to see a calmer side starting to show.
 
aswitcher said:
What a bizzare thread...immoral and unethical...week to week the world's biggest PC producer Dell change their deals with no protection for existing customers...are we calling this one a Troll Thread? ;)
Click to expand...

Right you are. I had that issue when I was trying to buy the 2005FPW, and ended up with the 2001FP being shipped instead. In my case it took a few emails and calls; but I ended up with the 2001FP and $125 in cash and Dell Gift cards in my pocket.
 
It seems to me that Apple has recognized that people are more willing than they originally thought to pop open their Mac minis, since it's apparently so easy to do... if no one was willing to self-upgrade their machines, or if they thought it couldn't be done, then Apple could (sort of) justify charging extra for certain add-ons.

But if any schmoe with a sanded-down putty knife can open his Mac mini and swap out the RAM or the hard drive in 5 minutes, then that's money that Apple won't get any part of. It makes sense that they'd reduce their BTO prices in order to get a piece of that action. It ALSO makes sense that they should proactively offer refunds/reimbursement to anyone who purchased a Mac mini with upgrades. (Sadly, my 1.42 GHz/80 GB machine didn't come down in price at all... ah well.)

(BTW, I bought my putty knife today... $2 at Home Depot. Ordered 1 GB RAM stick from 18004MEMORY, should arrive on Thursday.)
 
My apologies.

I thought I was stepping into a hot thread, and thought that there might be posts between mine.

I would appreciate any tips on how best to respind to hot topics so that I don't flood the thread like I just did.

(Hanging head in shame) :(
 
Chip NoVaMac said:
My apologies.

I thought I was stepping into a hot thread, and thought that there might be posts between mine.

I would appreciate any tips on how best to respind to hot topics so that I don't flood the thread like I just did.

(Hanging head in shame) :(
Click to expand...
How about this?:

1. Open Textedit or another text editor.
2. Click the QUOTE button for the first thread you want to respond to.
3. Copy the text from the browser window, and paste it into the text editor.
4. Repeat steps 2-3, until your text document is full of quotes.
5. Respond to each quote in the text document.
6. Copy the entire text from the text document, and paste it into a simple Reply.
7. Post.

That would help keep your post numbers down. :cool:
 
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