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If a certain work is done always distributed, then there is nothing to compare to. And like I said, individuals are completely capable of working and reporting from home. The real comparison is when a team works from office and then the same team switches to remote. If the outcome is the same, then Apple will continue with it won't they? Apple had clearly sent a memo to employees that they have to statistics and that they see a drop in outcome since WFH started. In the modern world, if they lied about something like that, they will get sued.

I don't see how you can state this for a whole company given the individual variances. You can state a macro statistics which is true at the macro level but not at the micro level for individual teams. And people working in companies do lie. They may or may not be sued. It takes a lot of resources to sue a large corporation.
 
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I can tell you that I am able to get the same amount of actual work done in a little more than half the time by working from home. No commute. No colleague interruptions. Less breaks for lunch and coffee. Not as many extraneous phone calls. Less socializing generally. So, I am sympathetic to argument that for some people the benefits of working in an office do not outweigh the costs in terms of time and efficiency. I guess it depends on the individual.
It really does. The introverts are going to output more at home because they're more relaxed and less distracted. The extroverts are going to love the office because they're more energized and feel a needed sense of connection. Just let the employees choose what's best for them. You only need half or less office space too. I don't see how this isn't a win for everyone if people can choose their best work paradigm.
 
While I get your point, they are none of them baristas or heart surgeons. I'm an office worker, and there is literally nothing I do at the office I can't do at home. In fact, when I'm at the office, we *still* meet via zoom because one of our team is at a different location. Under those circumstances, there's more to be gained without the overhead of travel or the risks still inherent in returning to the office. No, not everyone can do it, but for those who clearly can, the choice should exist.

This is common on large corporate campuses where it can take 15 minutes to get to a conference room (10 to walk to the building and 5 to figure out where the conference room is). So people have meetings by Zoom. We often had meetings where people Zoomed in even though they were five offices away. Because they were actually working while the meeting was going on.
 
It really does. The introverts are going to output more at home because they're more relaxed and less distracted. The extroverts are going to love the office because they're more energized and feel a needed sense of connection. Just let the employees choose what's best for them. You only need half or less office space too. I don't see how this isn't a win for everyone if people can choose their best work paradigm.

One large local company hired a lot of people during the pandemic. So many that they can't all fit on the campus anymore. So it is flextime by requirement. I think that they are going to mandate three days a month at some point in the future. They're offering free lunch as an incentive to come in. I play tennis there and it's a fantastic campus but it's empty during the day. That takes probably 3,000 cars off the highway per day.
 
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Be pedantic/twist my words all you want; it doesn’t change them. ”People like this” = people sharing in the entitled diva mindset. I thought that was clear enough but here I am having to spell it out (i.e. repeat) it again for you.

As I said, context, it is the reason your argument fell flat.
 
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One large local company hired a lot of people during the pandemic. So many that they can't all fit on the campus anymore. So it is flextime by requirement. I think that they are going to mandate three days a month at some point in the future. They're offering free lunch as an incentive to come in. I play tennis there and it's a fantastic campus but it's empty during the day. That takes probably 3,000 cars off the highway per day.
Heh. Let's not even talk about the benefits to the environment (which were proven during the beginning of the pandemic when there were far fewer cars on the road polluting the air)... I think on par there's far more upsides than downsides in letting people choose and not mandating any particular return to work strategy.
 
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Because they want you back in the office instead of taking numerous breaks? Slacking off? Running and doing errands while on the clock?
The idea that working from home equals slacking is patently ridiculous. You either do not work at all or maybe you are one of those micromanagers that want to control every aspect of life of your employees. I would be looking forward to working for you.
 
I’m just as productive at home as in the office. I don’t need a panopticon to drive me to earn my paycheck. The work I’m doing and checks they give me to do it are a perfectly adequate motivation for me.

Furthermore, I can guide my effort and manage others without a lot of supervision. Some of my coworkers cannot and if they’re my subordinate then I’ll do what I’ve got to do to get the effort out of them even if it means coming to the office 5 days a week (them and me).
 
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Because they want you back in the office instead of taking numerous breaks? Slacking off? Running and doing errands while on the clock?
Maybe certain jobs. But Apple is very secretive, and the last couple years the product & software releases haven't been very polished. Lots of bugs, and lots of features delayed.
Oh you mean like Quality Control?
 
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The idea that working from home equals slacking is patently ridiculous. You either do not work at all or maybe you are one of those micromanagers that want to control every aspect of life of your employees. I would be looking forward to working for you.

Plus, it depends on your job. I am salaried and you get your assignments and you complete them. Whether its 9-5, or 11-7, or 3-6, my bosses don't care how - as long as the work gets done. They aren't expecting 8 hours of busy work, if 4 hours of productive work will get it done.
 
I'm so sick of people thinking that they have a right to work from home these days. All they're doing is killing productivity and efficiency of American businesses. In my line of work I rely on manufacturer's inside sales engineers and sales support staff so I can provide accurate quotes and accurate answers to potential customers. Since Covid, it takes an insanely long time to even get in touch with anybody now and when they finally do call back, days or even weeks later, they're at home with screaming babies or barking dogs in the background and they're completely unfocused or impossible to hear. It's ridiculous, your employer pays you a salary to do a job, they expect 40 hours per week out of you at 100%.

I've also seen people on Insta or FB posting pics of themselves out at the beach or running errands during work hours. These people who are so vehemently opposed to working from the office are simply lazy and want to goof off at home all day rather than get up and go to the office.

I strongly feel if you're given the privilege of working from home, your employer should put monitoring software on your laptop (nothing to view the webcam or keystroke loggers - but software to monitor the task manager to ensure you're actively working, being productive) and you should have to connect to the office via VPN so that they can ensure you're working from 8a - 5p as required and as you would be if you were in the office.
 
I strongly feel if you're given the privilege of working from home, your employer should put monitoring software on your laptop (nothing to view the webcam or keystroke loggers - but software to monitor the task manager to ensure you're actively working, being productive) and you should have to connect to the office via VPN so that they can ensure you're working from 8a - 5p as required and as you would be if you were in the office.

Shall they be chained to their desk too, with an explosive collar if they sneak away?

Fortunately, most companies don't treat their employees like children.
 
This is a very cliché way of seeing things. If the work is being done then it doesn’t matter to anyone other than the quality of life has improved for the person concerned
I would agree...IF the work is getting done. But in my experience, its a small minority of people who WFH who actually are equally as productive at home as in the office. Too many people are lazy and slack off all day and play with the kids or pets, go shopping, errands, go to the beach or pool, etc. I've noticed in my day to day work that it is SO much harder to get reps and sales engineers on the phone sometimes it takes days or weeks to even reach someone, people who used to respond to emails in a matter of a couple hours now take days and their excuse is always "sorry for the delay, working from home you know how it is...." Actually no, I do not know how it is. I never missed one day of work from the office during the entire pandemic, never once got sick, and I work at 100% effort all the time.
 
Good riddance. You clearly did nothing to improve Siri in 4 years so I doubt you would have done much working from home or in the office. Just another overpaid engineer who thinks too highly of himself.

He, and the people who wrote that letter is just another example of people who are self-entitled and too self-absorbed to appreciate what they have. There are literally billions of people who would switch places with them and all they care about is their precious time at home?? Jeez, talk about privilege and first world problems.
 
Shall they be chained to their desk too, with an explosive collar if they sneak away?

Fortunately, most companies don't treat their employees like children.
Of course not, people are entitled to two 10 minute breaks per day in addition to an 30-60 minute lunch break. It's not treating employees like children...its expecting people to perform at 100% effort while on the clock. While on the company's dime you should be focused on work. Too many people think of work as an inconvenience and they only give what they feel they should. Just like these lazy Amazon employees trying to unionize because the big mean Amazon actually wanting to track their efficiency and effectiveness while they are on the clock...oh the horror of it all...actually having to work while being paid to work....
 
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Good riddance. You clearly did nothing to improve Siri in 4 years so I doubt you would have done much working from home or in the office. Just another overpaid engineer who thinks too highly of himself.

He, and the people who wrote that letter is just another example of people who are self-entitled and too self-absorbed to appreciate what they have. There are literally billions of people who would switch places with them and all they care about is their precious time at home?? Jeez, talk about privilege and first world problems.

When you are dead and in a box, you can treasure all that time you spent at work, instead of time with your family. The older you get, the more you will realize what's really important in life.
 
I would agree...IF the work is getting done. But in my experience, its a small minority of people who WFH who actually are equally as productive at home as in the office. Too many people are lazy and slack off all day and play with the kids or pets, go shopping, errands, go to the beach or pool, etc. I've noticed in my day to day work that it is SO much harder to get reps and sales engineers on the phone sometimes it takes days or weeks to even reach someone, people who used to respond to emails in a matter of a couple hours now take days and their excuse is always "sorry for the delay, working from home you know how it is...." Actually no, I do not know how it is. I never missed one day of work from the office during the entire pandemic, never once got sick, and I work at 100% effort all the time.

Why don't you Slack them? My last job our organization worked around the clock with handoff from region to region and time-zone to time-zone. I didn't envy managers who had to manage the transitions and figure out the right person to ask to hand work to, and also to navigate the different holidays from country to country. In many cases you worked a kind of 16 hours a day because it was far more efficient than handing something off or that there was nobody to hand things off to. You're often waiting some period of time for someone else to do something so you go off and run an errand or get some sleep or do the laundry. And this is the way it was for the people in the team around the world. The team had attrition problems because a lot of people didn't like working this way. But, it was efficient.
 
I'm so sick of people thinking that they have a right to work from home these days. All they're doing is killing productivity and efficiency of American businesses. In my line of work I rely on manufacturer's inside sales engineers and sales support staff so I can provide accurate quotes and accurate answers to potential customers. Since Covid, it takes an insanely long time to even get in touch with anybody now and when they finally do call back, days or even weeks later, they're at home with screaming babies or barking dogs in the background and they're completely unfocused or impossible to hear. It's ridiculous, your employer pays you a salary to do a job, they expect 40 hours per week out of you at 100%.

I've also seen people on Insta or FB posting pics of themselves out at the beach or running errands during work hours. These people who are so vehemently opposed to working from the office are simply lazy and want to goof off at home all day rather than get up and go to the office.

I strongly feel if you're given the privilege of working from home, your employer should put monitoring software on your laptop (nothing to view the webcam or keystroke loggers - but software to monitor the task manager to ensure you're actively working, being productive) and you should have to connect to the office via VPN so that they can ensure you're working from 8a - 5p as required and as you would be if you were in the office.
Shall they be chained to their desk too, with an explosive collar if they sneak away?

Fortunately, most companies don't treat their employees like children.
For some federal and state agencies its against there laws/rules to monitor people with VPN or other methods. In the 2+ years of WFH its been challenging but our team has had nothing but compliments. Now the biggest worry is people are turning in there retirement papers. Allot of experience, knowledge and more is moving on.
 
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Not sure why everyone has to take sides on this. Both sides are perfectly justified on this. If a company wants their employees in the office, that not overly unreasonable. And employees don't have to like it, and can move on if they don't. Can't really fault either side. Though I do think Apple will lose more people over this. Probably not as many as we might think, though.
 
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Of course not, people are entitled to two 10 minute breaks per day in addition to an 30-60 minute lunch break. It's not treating employees like children...its expecting people to perform at 100% effort while on the clock. While on the company's dime you should be focused on work. Too many people think of work as an inconvenience and they only give what they feel they should. Just like these lazy Amazon employees trying to unionize because the big mean Amazon actually wanting to track their efficiency and effectiveness while they are on the clock...oh the horror of it all...actually having to work while being paid to work....

And if their mouse stops moving for 30 seconds, fire them?

I don't think you realize how ridiculous you sound. Many people don't just do busy work. They do creartive work and have spurts. Others are technicians, who wait for things to break - that's their job.

You seem to automatically assume the worst intentions.
 
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