Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

[Adamantoise]

This is LITERALLY what the guy did. He resigned. For some reason, the corporate boot lickers here have gone after him, and it looks psychotic.

Everyone complaining about him resigning is a special kind of pathetic in my opinion.

The beauty of being an adult is that you have the freedom to make your own choices. You get to choose your own relationships, you get to choose where you want to live, where you want to eat, who you want to vote for etc.

Naturally this extends to where you want to work.

You are free to end your employment for any reason at any time if you feel it is no longer worth it to you.

What is pathetic is people losing sleep over another man's choices of where to work. Like how is this thread even 36 pages long? Man quits job and Apple stans are mad and feel the need to tell the world just how mad they are lol.

 

[4jasontv]

Everyone complaining about him resigning is a special kind of pathetic in my opinion.

The beauty of being an adult is that you have the freedom to make your own choices. You get to choose your own relationships, you get to choose where you want to live, where you want to eat, who you want to vote for etc.

Naturally this extends to where you want to work.

You are free to end your employment for any reason at any time if you feel it is no longer worth it to you.

What is pathetic is people losing sleep over another man's choices of where to work. Like how is this thread even 36 pages long? Man quits job and Apple stans are mad and feel the need to tell the world just how mad they are lol.

It's 37 pages because of the reason he quit.

 

[I7guy]

None of these examples are sufficient to justify face-to-face work. To justify face-to-face you need a clear task that requires two people to engage with a real-world object simultaneously.

In your own opinion that is based on your biases. You are within your right to dismiss (or have an opinion of) my examples, but you cannot objectively cite any facts that would show for those two examples that wfh would be as effective as in person.

Any employee be it a grunt or manager that depends on face-to-face interaction to do their job effectively after two years of remote employment should be fired. Why? Because if your ability to do your job effectively is dependent upon the geographic location of others then you are not the type of person who is willing to adapt to changing cultures.

Again, your opinion, which you are entitled to.

This employer who wants face-to-face meetings is a strawman (as you like to toss about). What most employers likely want is productivity and growth.

And that may require an employee to be in the office.

If an individual need inhibits others' productivity then the only response is to not let the door hit them on the way out.

Yep. Poor performing employees, I would think, get compensation based on their performance.

 

[I7guy]

It's 37 pages because of the reason he quit.

It’s 37 pages because of an extreme difference of opinion between those who believe in employees “rights” vs employers “rights”

 

[amartinez1660]

I think a possible consequence of remote work will be lower salaries for all such positions regardless of where one lives. A person living in NYC or San Francisco will eventually not have the power to command a higher salary if someone from rural Nebraska will take the job. The employer will simply say, "You don't have to live in San Francisco so I'm not paying you a salary to support you there."

I also like remote work, but this environment of empowered workers will not last. Companies will always readjust to swing employment conditions back in their favor. The pandemic caught them off guard and they are still figuring out how to take advantage of the situation--but they will.

At least we can count on the massive deficit of employees at large, for now at least.

I don’t remember where I read it anymore, but “unretirement” is a thing, and not only because inflation, but because many many jobs are not being replaced and people that got bored doing nothing decided to give it a shot a little longer.

There were also points to so many important jobs taken by senior people with absolutely no one in line to replace them afterwards.

For your point location, while true, I might use that to get away… I live in a crowded city not because of my own liking, but because “that’s how it’s done”: go to the city, to its university, then job, build career… make sure to always suffer the crowded spaces, packed metros, noisy alarms of ambulances running around, etc.

All of this from a personal point of view that is… some people love that permanent chaotic state.

 

[Realityck]

I can’t have any insight into answering that question. Everybody is replaceable, some more easily than others. But it does seem as if Silicon Valley has a round Robin of employees leaving one company to go to another.

Its probably good they do that, as staying with one company can limit your creativity by only working with certain products. Fresh perspectives is what makes the technology industry evolve.

 

[Bonte]

From the hardware team that stayed on site throughout the pandemic. So the security argument loses a bit of sheen there.

I did not know that, I assumed that everyone at least worked some time at home during the crisis. The example is indeed moot.

But Apple is so paranoid (for so many reasons) I don’t think it can keep the work at home system. It should also try to find solution to problems like housing and travel time.

 

[4jasontv]

In your own opinion that is based on your biases. You are within your right to dismiss (or have an opinion of) my examples, but you cannot objectively cite any facts that would show for those two examples that wfh would be as effective as in person.

Again, your opinion, which you are entitled to.

And that may require an employee to be in the office.

Yep. Poor performing employees, I would think, get compensation based on their performance.

It’s 37 pages because of an extreme difference of opinion between those who believe in employees “rights” vs employers “rights”

Omg. You call all logic opinion. You’re impossible.

 

[groove-agent]

I'm surprised there's this much resistance to go back to work, but I totally get it. People learned how great it is to work from home.

Despite what many say, I believe that people can potentially be more productive at home: they're less tired from commuting, more comfortable, less stressed. The problem is that employers feel they lose control over their employees because they can't see what they're doing at all times.

While employees were originally hired to come in to work each day, Apple who seem to prefer to be righteous path, should recognize these benefits from working at home namely, employee mental health, and the impact of the environment with staff commuting in ICE cars every day. So there needs to be a happy medium, particularly related to COVID numbers.

 

[Saturn1217]

Apple obviously has the right to decide however they want. And top talent also have the right to take their talents elsewhere.

The big question is where is the industry as a whole going? For those like myself who think the WFH movement is a life changing positive in this industry, seeing news like this is very encouraging.

All I know is that I switched to a remote-first company in the middle of the pandemic. Is the job perfect? No. But I like my team and the ability to WFH has allowed me to keep working during some extreme personal challenges (recently diagnosed special needs for my child and health issues for myself). I’m not a very talented developer and I’ve had recruiters lighting up my email CONSTANTLY. The demand for software engineers is insane right now. If I was in office right now I’d be biting at these opportunities. But being 100% remote is so critical to my ability to balance work with my family’s needs right now that I am staying put.

Just one data point but I think 100% remote is going to continue being a huge perk. Apple is probably big enough that they can ignore that but I hope that isn’t true of all tech companies. The truth is WFH IS more inclusive for working parents, people with disabilities, people who want to live outside major metros for whatever reason. The list goes on.

 

[I7guy]

Omg. You call all logic opinion. You’re impossible.

What some call logic is actually strawman opinions.

 

[4jasontv]

What some call logic is actually strawman opinions.

Sure, but not here.

 

[amartinez1660]

I'm not sure about you. My work hours have been extended by not having to commute. The commute time has become work time. I may be the odd-ball, as I have always worked more hours than I am being paid for, as I am having so much fun. The extra hours allow me to squeeze in more fun.

Man! Watch out, some people might come out of the blue saying that they aren’t having fun at their jobs… so you shouldn’t have fun too.

Go ahead and quit, find something you despise. Quick!
/s

Ultimately, these types of comments makes me happy, glad for you. I’m not there, but not far away, sometimes I work 10+hrs just because I’m squeezing some challenging brain work… heck if I won the lottery I would still be working, maybe just part time though.

—
To all the “let’s enforce office work” advocates, if that makes you happy by all means keep it, have all the office space, coffee machines, in-site perks (gyms, showers, food for those that do) all for yourself? If you like it so much maybe sharing less of it could even be seen like a good thing.

 

[dysamoria]

If you're in tech, you should have made a ton of money in the past 13 years with salary increases, stock options and bonuses. And you can just take a few years off and wait for the recession to end to start looking again.


View attachment 2002255

Tell that to the programmers at game companies, who were laid off by their employers to boost the quarter financials, after finishing all that crunch time demanded by management to complete a video game by an overly optimistic arbitrary release date... And this even gets the CEO a bonus.

Activision Blizzard CEO Criticized For Layoffs Amid Massive Stock Increase

The CEO of Activision got a $200 million bonus.

screenrant.com

"If you're in tech" really does a LOT of heavy lifting there in your sentence.

I was in tech, and it did nothing for me. Tech support was turned into a cheap labor position filled by anyone who can read a three-ring-binder and hand someone a replacement disposable device, because corporations don't want skilled workers when it's cheaper to hire anyone who can read scripts and to treat products like disposable garbage (and that's how they treat their employees). So then I went to tech training. HAH, no one wants to pay for that either (and my boss was a sociopath). Why train people on the tech when you can just throw them in on the deep end and expect them to have the skillset of 12 different job titles.

But game developers being laid off to make more profit... those workers are definitely in possession of far deeper skills than I ever had, they often came with degrees, and yet they were STILL disposable to their employers.

The majority of people aren't making a ton of money. If that's the circle you travel in, you really need to examine your privilege.

 

[hans1972]

Research shows 70 % of employees are more likely to switch jobs, than go back to the office full time.

Apple will keep losing staff.

Apple was once at the top of my list of companies to work for. They are nowhere near it now. Luckily there are many other employers out there who are fully embracing remote work. It's the future. Offices should be a space for collaboration, learning and development and social interaction, but let me do my own day-to-day work where I work best.

But at Apple you only need to go back to work for 60% of the time.

 

[I7guy]

Sure, but not here.

Plenty here. I’ve pointed them out in some prior threads.

Apple can run their business the way they want and employees are free to leave or stay. That is the objective facts. When top talent leaves it might create a temporary void, however voids are filled one way or another.

 

[I7guy]

Tell that to the programmers at game companies, who were laid off by their employers to boost the quarter financials, after finishing all that crunch time demanded by management to complete a video game by an overly optimistic arbitrary release date... And this even gets the CEO a bonus.

Activision Blizzard CEO Criticized For Layoffs Amid Massive Stock Increase

The CEO of Activision got a $200 million bonus.

screenrant.com

"If you're in tech" really does a LOT of heavy lifting there in your sentence.

I was in tech, and it did nothing for me. Tech support was turned into a cheap labor position filled by anyone who can read a three-ring-binder and hand someone a replacement disposable device, because corporations don't want skilled workers when it's cheaper to hire anyone who can read scripts and to treat products like disposable garbage (and that's how they treat their employees). So then I went to tech training. HAH, no one wants to pay for that either (and my boss was a sociopath). Why train people on the tech when you can just throw them in on the deep end and expect them to have the skillset of 12 different job titles.

But game developers being laid off to make more profit... those workers are definitely in possession of far deeper skills than I ever had, they often came with degrees, and yet they were STILL disposable to their employers.

The majority of people aren't making a ton of money. If that's the circle you travel in, you really need to examine your privilege.

Yeah, one game company that seemed horribly mismanaged. Sure Tim Sweeney did okay though.

 

[dysamoria]

The entire human society can be replaced by machine learning.

"Machine learning" and "AI" have accomplished little more than instilling our devices with "artificial stupidity" and enabling social networking companies to promote the most appalling disinformation and nutcase beliefs, by way of the holy concept of "engagement"... because advertising revenue is all that really matters anymore.

 

[amartinez1660]

That's great! Please keep in mind that not everyone will have your same results.

Ok man, you make too much sense. I’ll stop liking your comments because it definitely looks like spam by now. But I wholeheartedly agree with what you have been stating.

But yes, as per your previous comments, here it’s way more mixed the opinions. And reasonable people can be found at any side of the left-right spectrum for that matter… except maybe the quick to bash snark commenters 2mins after an article is published.

 

[dysamoria]

This. Apples quality has definitely diminished. There are still engineers that have to go in due to the nature of their role. The Apple silicon team, one of the true great Apple innovations recently, has not worked from home for the majority of the pandemic.

Apple's problems started WELL BEFORE COVID19. It goes all the way back to 2013, with things like iOS 7...

 

[Rafterman]

Hey, if mass layoffs start, there's not going to be a lick of loyalty shown to ANY employees anywhere, regardless of their work model. Hell, the gaming industry has made a point of laying off developers just to bump the numbers for the board of directors in the quarter after a game releases. They don't NEED to lay people off. They do it because even being a programmer leaves people entirely expendable; for profit, not for company survival.

NONE of this is the fault of workers. If we plow head-long into a recession, it will have NOTHING to do with the rank and file worker populous and EVERYTHING to do with executive management, rampant corporatism in government, and Wall Street greed.

Less immigrant labor in the U. S. is contributing to shortages, price hikes and inflation as well. COVID is causing supply contraints and the war is another factor.

 

[4jasontv]

Plenty here. I’ve pointed them out in some prior threads.

Apple can run their business the way they want and employees are free to leave or stay. That is the objective facts. When top talent leaves it might create a temporary void, however voids are filled one way or another.

No. You keep saying strawman and people got bored explaining it to you. That does t validate your statements.

 

[dysamoria]

Sine the dawn of humanity people worked in work places, they would dream to be top manager in a company like Ford or IBM in the 50s. Suddenly working in the office is inhumane.

It understandable for some people who's work does not require them to be in the office like someone calculating accounting books or someone doing data entry but director of machine learning working at home? come on. I am just the amount they pay this guy should be enough of a reason for him to dress up and go to work.



People will come back with their tails between their feet once they no longer have food in the fridge and no one is going to pay them $100k.year jobs working from home.

"Since the dawn of humanity"... yet you only go back as far as the 1950s? Look at pre-industrialization for some insights into human work history.

 

[Mainsail]

To justify face-to-face you need a clear task that requires two people to engage with a real-world object simultaneously.

But, you do agree that some jobs do require this type of interaction. For example, writing software for a piece of hardware may require the software and hardware engineers working in a lab together doing real-world bench work and testing.

My first job out of college was as a facilities engineer in a Plant Engineering department. I really don’t think I could have done that job from home. I needed to go out into the field and meet with the technicians to try to understand the nature of the problems and the requirements for regular maintenance and repairs.

So, it really does depend on the job.

 

[dysamoria]

Like all government created problems, the free market will fix this. Give it time. Inflation and recession are happening. Coding is a gig for the young and hungry and the older these "I need to be with my family" types get, the sooner they will be replaced by younger, hungrier, bolder, harder working people. That is life.

Products will suffer. Creativity that DEMANDS in person interaction will suffer, and NEWER products and ideas will prevail.

Meanwhile since that will take 2-5 years for it to fully manifest and a 1/4 generation for new workers to replace them, all these companies that put it off will continue to get further and further behind.

Steve Jobs would have fired them ALL already. Apple is now just another WOKE-WHINER Tech Giant too big to change or innovate.

We got another one over here who thinks the free market is real and the solution to every problem created by corporations and corporatism in government...?