Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

[Artemis70]

Ultimately, these types of comments makes me happy, glad for you. I’m not there, but not far away, sometimes I work 10+hrs just because I’m squeezing some challenging brain work… heck if I won the lottery I would still be working, maybe just part time though.

I do hope you get there too. I would wish for everyone to love their job. After all, you spend a significant part of your life doing work. My boss once put it nicely: life is too short to spend it with people you don't like, and doing things you don't like.

If I won the lottery I would also still be working. I would probably work remotely from nicer places on the face of the earth. I would travel in business class, probably .

 

[dysamoria]

This post has to be satire. I've seen quite a few posts of people licking corporate boots, but this? You're not just licking the boots; you're eating them!

Yeah, that post was so egregious the eye roll was painful. I just stared at a quote-back and couldn't decide where to even begin. I just gave up and moved on to other people.

 

[4jasontv]

But, you do agree that some jobs do require this type of interaction. For example, writing software for a piece of hardware may require the software and hardware engineers working in a lab together doing real-world bench work and testing.

My first job out of college was as a facilities engineer in a Plant Engineering department. I really don’t think I could have done that job from home. I needed to go out into the field and meet with the technicians to try to understand the nature of the problems and the requirements for regular maintenance and repairs.

So, it really does depend on the job.

It depends on the task. Most functions of the job can be done remote.

 

[dysamoria]

The oil companies are playing us. Oil dropped below $100 a barrel, usually an indicator of cheaper gas prices. Yet they never came down. We became the 7th largest exporter of oil in the world - yet prices remain high because we are shipping oil off to others. Oil producers have 9,000 unused exploration leases, yet comlain how they are being handcuffed.

As far as spending goes, please. Trump and the Republcan controlled Congress set a near record deficit level, while Biden has actually cut the deficit a little bit. Trump had the third-biggest primary deficit growth, 5.2 percent of GDP, behind only George W. Bush (11.7 percent) and Abraham Lincoln (9.4 percent). Spending is not just a Dem thing, the GOP is quite adept at it too.

The Fed finally increased interest rates - something they should ahve done a while ago.

You cannot reach with reason and facts those who use neither to form their world-views.

 

[I7guy]

No. You keep saying strawman and people got bored explaining it to you. That does t validate your statements.

It could be strawman arguments are being posted. One can’t see past their biases. And yes per the above, I guess it gets repetitive to keep pointing this out.

 

[4nNtt]

i work in design and we are full time wfh. i still deliver my designs on time, but definitely they are not the same quality. it's hard to get feedback along the process, accountability and general collaboration. i'm basically delivering first drafts as final designs. people seem satisfied with the work, but the quality level is definitely not there.

This sounds like a collaboration issue in your organization. Our collaboration became better then in person once everyone went remote. We have collaboration time on our calendars. It is really hard to hire for our few roles that need to be in person. Nobody is willing to relocate or work in an office anymore.

 

[DeepIn2U]

It’s backwards and old fashioned. Whatever worked in the past is irrelevant. We‘ve now had two years that has proved that office work isn’t necessarily better. Just going back to the old way because ”it was like that before” is like arguing we should abandon cars because walking worked before. It worked because we didn’t know any better. Now we do.

All I’m arguing for is flexibility. Office work is great for you, well, you should have an option to do that. He and many others think working from home is better. And they should have that option as well. I personally think that hadn’t Apple recently invested billions into their new office, then this would have been a non-issue.

EDIT: Also, you seem to be under the impression that you owe your company. I earn my keep, I don't owe my company anything. I'm profitable for my company and I'm guessing so are you, or you'd be out of a job. It's that simple, either you are making them money or you don't have a job, and if there's anything, they owe me a lot of gratitude.

Sorry we’ve not had two years.

We’ve had more than 12 yrs!
I know I work and support corporations employees across 5 different industries of major global players.

VPNS nothing new.
Desktop or laptops and operating systems with remote AD or power shell management. Again nothing new.
RSA SECURID tokens (HW/SW) again nothing new baby.
Video conferencing is THE ONLY thing that has changed and COVID-19 being new that forced the change.

That’s it or have you been completely numb to these facts and NOT realize this? Nor did you care during this entire time?!

This makes me laugh at all that challenge my views and experience in this yet fail to even mention that remote work has long been possible. It shows the lack of knowledge or realization this is not a new trend but instead just jumping in the new bandwagon.

So your complaint of going back to the old way or we didn’t know any better now we do is all garbage and false rhetoric. Proof? How did you think any employee was able to travel and work or participate ina meeting with partners yet still have access to corporate secure files - what a usb encrypted disk? Lol.

So if you’re gonna come at me come at me with real substance not a bandwagon cry. Real world tangible details.

Where the hell do you think I come across that I owe my company? Or any company? Lol. Read all my posts carefully in this thread and I’ve fully earned my keep especially my most recent post prior to this one. It’s specifically states I earned and I owe nothing. It also highlights how changes to benefits pay and bonuses could be adjusted (or the 2nd most recent before this one I’m replying to).

You need to be careful with your assumptions about me before reading more and in context. You don’t know me at all and I’m staying from an I.T.’s perspective with 15yrs+ experience in 5 different industries of global corporations (2 top gold mining corporations, the largest agriculture corporation - Canadian division, 2nd top Canadian financial bank, 1 financial investment corporation that innovates).

Great staff at both and great colleagues.

You’re talking about he new way it’s great it’s the new new let’s not go back. I’m not debating on those ideals or terms. There is a LOT more at stake and a lot more changes people are not readily seeing which will come and they may not be happy.

1 I haven’t mentioned is director or VPs budgets will drop considerably as travel expenses will drop to 10% of what was needed no more expensing frivolous items like business dinners, hotels, car rentals etc. likewise will affect insurance subsidies. Benefits of the old way that people expect ti keep yet in the new way will not have. Just hope you’re ready for that.

 

[dysamoria]

[...]Employees get away with whatever they can because the feel entitled.[...]

Are you projecting, a micromanaging and abusive manager, and/or failing to grasp exactly how miserable employers make their employees?

Also, NO, you're wrong about "employees", because you're generalizing a HUGE mass of people who have their own diverse personalities, situations, and behaviors. I've known plenty of employees with a strong work ethic, but that doesn't fool me into thinking they're the norm either. The only norm is that employers abuse employees to the fullest extent of the toothless laws supposedly protecting them. There's really no need to wonder why employees might feel entitled to better treatment than they get in most places. Even the "right to a non-hostile workplace" rarely ever gets protected or acted on.

 

[dwaite]

There is no doubt that some people are more productive at home, but others, with the same job, are not...

Keep in mind that this is partially independent on whether those people _think_ they are more productive at home.

Someone might believe they are being comparatively or even more productive working from home, while their coworkers and their managers disagree. Others might believe they are far more distracted working from home, while nobody they work with has noticed a productivity drop or quality decline in their performance.

The problem is if _everyone_ shifted to 100% work from home at once, there's no easy metrics to judge against. Hence a policy like Apple's (slowly ramp up working in the office while allowing employees to request alternative arrangements from their manager) makes a fair bit of sense in terms of balancing change while providing an opportunity for metrics and comparison.

 

[Madhatter32]

What some call logic is actually strawman opinions.

It saddens me when people cannot distinguish between logic and logical fallacy. But, it happens all the time in these forums. Do not lose hope though. The logical usually wins out -- at least in the long term.

 

[DeepIn2U]

He LITERALLY left the job to look elsewhere. Why are you so angry at someone exercising their freedom this way?

Ahh you got angry at my reply.

Yes he took a job elsewhere. Did you understand my reply to someone else whom stated it was being treated better? Seems you didn’t read that part nor my reply in context. I wasn’t mad at all. It was false. The employee never stated anything about being mistreated by Apple in his fateful quoted in this article. Did you read it?

So I stand truthfully by my reply. This was not about being treated better. It was about his choice. The fallacy was thinking that working at home would be a forever thing in his role. Apple enever stated working from home would be a full thing they considered. 2 days a week isn’t bad, nor 3 days a week.


I find it funny people are loosing their stuffings over such a very slow transition and claiming it’s this or that. Yet nobody is advocating about a 4 day work week implemented over 12 yrs ago in Sweden or Finland which has proven to be better quality of life and work balance yet it’s not implemented anywhere else.

Considering your choice to flag my post you quoted above with an angry face shows you’re losing your stuffing or too emotionally invested in my post that you completely take out of context and wrongfully assumed I was mad. But hey oh well.

 

[Madhatter32]

We got another one over here who thinks the free market is real and the solution to every problem created by corporations and corporatism in government...😆

Market allocation > governmental allocation in most, not all, circumstances.

 

[4nNtt]

We can have the level of collaboration remotely with software that used to require an office. It isn’t working in the office that is core to Apple’s ethos, it is the collaborative culture. Apple needs to see that remote work is in the same spirit of what Steve Jobs saw among engineers around the water cooler. We have a bigger water cooler that stretches across the world now. It should be in Apple’s interest to push this collaborative culture enabled by remote work and making technology more social forward instead of hold it back.

 

[dwaite]

I wouldn’t go back to a full office job. I used to commute 4-5 hours per day, over 1000km per week. I’d never see my son as he was asleep when I left, and also when I got home; And I used to spend easily €10k per year in commuting costs. Never again.

Sounds like the issue wasn't working in the office, but rather a brutal commute. A 10k€ annual commuting cost and a 50% longer effective work day means that there have to be other factors at play (such as a high salary) to keep you from moving or quitting.

 

[dysamoria]

It's the infrastructure that suffers with wfh ; restaurants , cafes etc all closing as nobody's using them as they're all at home sat on the sofa 'working'

And we have another vote for the status quo because... it's the way things are now and change is bad.

The USA is full of opportunistic business developments that only happened because the opportunity was a result of other people's bad ideas, or because the culture itself was just plain stupid, insane, etc... Huge urban hellholes are not good for humans, other animals, or the planet's ecology, but lets keep doing them for the sake of the businesses that cropped up to fill needs created by stupid paths we were dragged down together as a society...

 

[DeepIn2U]

Re-read the article. Apple policy is to increase in-office attendance to more than 1 day a week in coming weeks/months.

You say "that's his choice", and then continue to attack him for making his own choices. Did he kill your dog, or something?

I red the article. I thing in any of my repolies states nor shows otherwise nor does your post quoting mine neither does.

I’m attacking the way in which he made his choice. It was poor and shows a sour feeling about a very slow gradual change he should’ve long been aware of.

Apple has been noted about their back to office goals over 6 months ago! News reported right here back in November. As a director why would he not engage his superiors long before about this plan? Why did he not discuss this? He’s had plenty of time to leave yet instead he waited until the planned 3 day/week introduction 3 weeks before being implemented and then leaves a team he leads with just an email having no thought or a care of the repsonvility and feasting disruption to his subordinates work.

Poor leader by example here.

It seems you’re doing the attacking directly to me. I’m attacking his reasoning - that’s why I said lazy nOT anything personal about him nor why he chose to do it. It’s work ethic I attacked.

You read me completely wrong.

 

[applefan69]

Apple will lose top talent to competitors because of this.

You mean weed out their lazy people? Because if you do then yes I agree the competitors can have them.

They single themselves out and you do not even have to pay severance. Its too good to be true from a corporate/shareholder perspective.

 

[dysamoria]

Long thread to skim, but interesting... It just seems like people who have to show up at a physical office due to the nature of their work or culture of their company, are cranky about those of us who don't have to.

1. I'm strongly guessing the ML guy from start of thread is doing just fine, and can go on permanent vacation, or get another job in 5 minutes. His life's choices are his life choices, it's not possible to extrapolate someone else's priorities to what any individual feels they should be doing.

2. Unless you've been there a long time, or your skillset is super-important ... Apple doesn't really pay that well. It could be said they're not very competitive. If you work at Apple as an engineer on iOS then that's something cool, because you're working on what's arguably the most important and profitable piece of tech on Earth. If you work for Apple doing 99 other things, then you're either replaceable, haven't been there longer than a few years, or odds are you're grinding along in a "high paying, dead-end job." I know quite a few people who work at Apple, and... it's just a job, "growing old, watching 20 person teams become 300 person teams making a mess, waiting for my options to vest." And quite often, you can go do a variant of exactly the same thing, at another co, while making more money and sitting around in your pajamas all day ... so why wouldn't you?

The people with all the enthusiasm often lack the skillset to replace the people whose lives they're judging.

3. IDK, it's the big shiny Uber-expensive mothership, finished right before COVID hit, so... they need to fill it up with something. Perhaps they can get some holograms of people walking around, grow goats, open an upscale homeless shelter, ya know, stuff that demonstrates how committed to ESG Apple is and their great love of all humanity.

I wouldn't ever show up at an office, because... I don't have to I've worked from home for over a decade, long before COVID hit. Post-COVID it just means I don't have to drive to an airport, grow old and die standing in lines, get on a plane, fly to some other location, often located in another country, just to have a stupid in person meeting that lasts for 1-3 hours, followed by dinner, followed by the after-party (where 95%+ of all business actually occurs), followed by... I mean, I don't care, just open Zoom. Please wake me up when we get teleport.app and I can go straight to the after-party, can't be bothered before that.

Since teleportation booths are suicide booths, I would decline using those more vehemently than I will refuse medically-unnecessary X-ray radiation at airports.

 

[dysamoria]

Just changing jobs can be destabilizing. If you have someone in your family with a major medical problem, you don't want to change jobs as their health insurance may not cover the doctors you're using. Or a move might be required.

I received my 35th anniversary award a couple of years ago so I stayed around with one organization for a long time. The organization was bought by another company so it was the same organization but different companies.

I wonder if WFH is more common in some areas than others. We've taken it for granted for 35 years, even if we didn't use it.

Employer-dependent healthcare is just another way the system traps people. If you've stayed with your employer for 35 years for this reason alone, I'm sorry.

 

[dysamoria]

The “work from home” rot for people who want to do no work at all starts from the top. Good riddance to bad rubbish

You guys are unreal. As if an employer wouldn't notice their employees getting no work done... 🙄

 

[applefan69]

This is the dumbest take ever.

At the professional level there is no "clock". You have a job to do, you do it and get it done. That's it. If you do three hours of workin the morning, four hours in the afternoon and finish something up for an hour at 23:30 before bed, you're being just as effective as someone who has to go to the office do it in an 8-10 hour chunk.

People who want to slack off will do so at the office too. Eventually their low output will be noticed and they'll be talked to and possibly dismissed like any other bad employee.

I dont care how many times you try to say "but doing same # hours = same productive", it is not going to be true. Fact of the matter is when a team collaborates AT THE SAME TIME, the sum becomes greater than the whole. Once again, I do not care what excuses or conjecture you have to argue, I will continue to be right about this. Not that I am unwilling to debate, just that you cannot deny this fact and this fact destroys any argument you can possibly make.

Now stop being a child and go to work like your ancestors before you.

 

[dysamoria]

Worker output fell 7.5% in the first quarter, the biggest decline since 1947

​

"Worker output"...

I think people are just fed up, on a mass scale. I don't think morale is low enough for a general strike across all industries, but it's certainly enough for people to stop working and trying so hard, especially when they realize there's zero loyalty shown to them by their employers and that their pay is a fraction of a fraction of an executive's pay. The general awareness of just how abusive this system is has finally started to seep into the public awareness.

 

[DeepIn2U]

You're missing the angle that this isn't your job and isn't your call. You're also missing the fact that it's not 1 day per week that's at issue. Re-read the article: Apple is demanding increases to office attendance over time. 1 day/week, then 3 days/week, etc...

If you DID notice that fact, then you're being disingenuous in citing the 1 day per week requirement of the immediate moment, just to cherry pick for the best "impact" on your attack on this employee. Gross.

I’m not missing anything you claim or think I’m missing.

Did I claim this is my call? No.
Did I claim this was my job? No.

This guy cherry picked after a short few weeks of 2 days in office and at announcement of 3rd panned ahead but oh well. I’m off by 1 day so sue me. He still didn’t have a problem with this 2yrs prior I’m sure he still had family then.

As I stated no mention of dependency of family needs for his care and well we may never know but if he did I’m confident Apple would be MORE than willing to accommodate him.

Can People Really Multitask?

Is it possible to multitask effectively? Here's our answer and how it all relates to ergonomics.

www.thoughtco.com

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/creative-leadership/201811/why-you-can-t-multi-task

Can Humans Actually Multitask?

Human brain is designed to handle one task at a time, engaging in rapid task-switching rather than simultaneous execution during multitasking.

www.scienceabc.com

There's plenty more out there...

What does this prove? I’m fully capable of multi-tasking and have for over a decade.

I’d wager this isn’t taught as much as it’s seen to distract people and a more focused work style is the norm lately. I’m sure there is more yet nothing you’ve posted states the majority of the work force has multitasked while working remotely any better than when in the office.

Abs yes I can multi-task performing two things simultaneously:

Having abs interacting to 2 conversations back and forth - I’ve done this all my life. Managers and friends have honestly questioned me if I was insane or possessed.

Control a computer on 1 screen jumping to another when a process is completed while talking to 1 of those users answering their questions that were non related.

Just cause you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean people cannot do this!

Wait, what are you afraid of happening when you just indicated that lazy people wont stay at a job? By your logic, bad workers will be filtered out. What's the problem?

Lol never stated anything about fear. And yes byy logic lazy people will be filtered out.

Again quite and reply in context as this is exactly what I was saying that you quoted me. I’m just surprised at the sudden letter that said ciao basically. I’d expect a 2 wk notice to help transition his team that he led.

 

[techwhiz]

You're not a marriage counselor to work from home. You work at a company that builds products, some are life-changing products, products that require maximum focus, productivity, discipline, quality check, again and again. At-home productivity will never equal at-work productivity. At-home discipline will never equal at-school discipline.

Just like you'd never be comfortable with a home-schooled heart surgeon; or get on a rocket built by engineers who worked from home.

Anyway, that said, good riddance to him. There are no irreplaceable people.

Clearly someone that doesn't work in technology and doesn't understand how things are done.

Actually I work remote 100% and since I'm remote I have more focus not less. Fewer interruptions and distractions since I have a dedicated office separate from my house.

I probably wouldn't react the same way if I had to go in, but I don't have to go into the office.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Maybe don't start with extreme / absolute positions and a weird appeal to power...

Lmao weird appeal to power.

Someone posed a statement I asked with a challenge.

I’ve yet to see a direct reply.

The failure isn’t with me here. But nice try since you’re so fixated in your anger towards me. You can just ignore my posts you know hehe.