How so? Are POC not allowed to comment? Are their comments hidden for 10 minutes before displaying? Please explain what privileges this forum affords to only white people so that the mods and admin team can make the proper changes.
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Apple's Diversity Chief Christie Smith Leaves the Company
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Actually where Apple appears to need diversity is with people in the positions where the hiring is done. It's possible that's already the case and we simply don't see it. Diversity in HR is much more important than some made-for-TV diversity position. If you're a minority with a brain you're probably not going to care so much if some Leader of Diversity is white or green. A lot more effective to have diversity in HR positions.
Just because Apple has a white gay man as CEO doesn't mean Apple is diverse. Gay is not a race. White Privilege definitely applies to gays as well (big time). Since Tim has been on board, there have been a lot of white LGBT hires but no minority LGBT hires. And don't confuse the retail front-line with the executive positions. Apple loves hiring minorities for retail for obvious reasons. The customers. Apple's upper ranks also appear to be a walled garden.
Minorities are more progressive by nature. I think if you're a minority looking for an executive position with a progressive company, you'll be happier someplace other than Apple unless you're specifically looking to shake-up a company's culture.
I also think that brilliant minority executives who are getting head-hunted prefer to work at other companies that are younger and more progressive outside of Silicon Valley, therefore Apple simply doesn't get those brilliant candidates. These people are accepting positions in Asia, Europe and Canada.
These days executives aren't actively pursuing positions at Steve Job's Apple. TimmyApple hires tend to be head-hunted by Apple or people who have been offered positions after resigning from other top companies. I don't hear of any executives waiting by their phones to get that call from Timmy like they used to with Steve or quitting their jobs running to One Infinite Loop to work with Jonny and Steve. If choosing from STEM/FAANG/FAMGA cultures Apple will not be the first choice.
Just because Apple has a white gay man as CEO doesn't mean Apple is diverse. Gay is not a race. White Privilege definitely applies to gays as well (big time). Since Tim has been on board, there have been a lot of white LGBT hires but no minority LGBT hires. And don't confuse the retail front-line with the executive positions. Apple loves hiring minorities for retail for obvious reasons. The customers. Apple's upper ranks also appear to be a walled garden.
Minorities are more progressive by nature. I think if you're a minority looking for an executive position with a progressive company, you'll be happier someplace other than Apple unless you're specifically looking to shake-up a company's culture.
I also think that brilliant minority executives who are getting head-hunted prefer to work at other companies that are younger and more progressive outside of Silicon Valley, therefore Apple simply doesn't get those brilliant candidates. These people are accepting positions in Asia, Europe and Canada.
These days executives aren't actively pursuing positions at Steve Job's Apple. TimmyApple hires tend to be head-hunted by Apple or people who have been offered positions after resigning from other top companies. I don't hear of any executives waiting by their phones to get that call from Timmy like they used to with Steve or quitting their jobs running to One Infinite Loop to work with Jonny and Steve. If choosing from STEM/FAANG/FAMGA cultures Apple will not be the first choice.
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Hiring people based on race etc. is as wrong as not hiring them based on race etc. Like others have already said, hire based on credentials and merit.
You raise some interesting and thought-provoking points. Totally agree with the need to focus on 'why is this happening?'. I mean I'm seeing a similar pattern, and have to include gender, and physical disabilities as well as groups where I rarely see candidates.
The difference is that I have lived mostly outside of the USA, in countries providing free education, free healthcare, a really good social services system etc. The same opportunities. And yet here we are, with the same issues.
I've not convinced the issues of that nature, I think it is much more simple than that. How many of your friends are CEO or at C level of those you went to at elementary school? We simply don't all get to the same level.
If that nerdy teenager gives up so easily, then it is no surprise to me he/she won't make C level. It is no different for many others, for non-Americans for example. How hard do you think it is when you grow up and want to be there, but you are born in another country, speak a different language, can't go to those big-name US universities.
We all have our crosses to carry and paths to choose. Nobody ever said it would be easy. And in my opinion, as long as we look at a board picture and all we see the color of peoples skin then we still have a very long road ahead of us.
Your post is extremly biased and in parts racist.
Your implying that the colour of your skin is why you was passed over for job after job. Unless you have proof and provide proof, to make a sweeping statement like that is racist because your basically making a statement that white people prevented you from getting a qualified job. The job situation you described happens to people off all ehtnicitiy and the number one reason being why qualified people do not get the job and lesser qualified people do is because the lesser qualified people are 'YES' people. Being less qualified also means that person knows no better and therefore cannot argue their case when the cirumstances require it. Bosses like YES people because they will do ask they are told without any backchat or arguments. A qualified person can back up their arguments and give back as good as they are given.
Again another sweeping statement that you've had to work harder than others because of the colour of your skin. Unless you can provide proof of this, it's just another racist statement accusing white people of making you work harder than others purely based on the colour of your skin. This is not unique to blacks, this happens to nearly EVERYONE in the work place regardless of their ethnicity. A boss may work a person harder than others because of many reasons, they do not like the way they way the person spoke to them, the boss is jealous of the person because that person has better clothes than they do, a better car, a better house, a better partner. They are worked harder because the person was rude to the boss and the list goes on.
Your post proves that you have racial prejudices against white people because you have taken two situations that affect a huge majority of people in the US, situations that affect them in a muliple of different ways but as a black man, you have chosen the one that singles you out as a person of colour...i didn't get the qualified job because i am black..i am made to work harder because I am black.
What about the qualified white person who doesnt get the job, or the white person that is told to work harder, can they claim it's a racial thing because they are white? Not everything is about the colour of a persons skin but for the majority, blacks believe it is and herein lies the problem.
I wouldn’t necessarily say diversity is cancer. Diversity is awesome. Diversity just for the sake of diversity is cancer. I 100% agree with you by hiring on skills and promoting on merits.
Well, you could be a bit more specific, right? From what I have read all are basically saying that a person should be hired based on his mertis, credentials, skills and not based on its skin color. In what universe this is racist?
That’s 2020 for ya. Silence is violence or something.
Why don’t you define what a ”racist” is, fella, before coming to a forum like this and insulting the majority of posters who don’t believe that you should make hiring decisions based solely on the color of one’s skin?
I agree with you and I want to add: the ONLY reasons companies are even discussing "diversity" is because there are federal laws forcing them to. The ONLY reason why they make a big show of following these laws is so they don't get bad PR. Otherwise, we wouldn't keep having these discussions. If companies really were into "diversity", it would be in their corporate DNA. But since it's not in their DNA, it's not surprising to see high-level corporate employees say things that run contrary to their corporate party lines.
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It's saddened, but not surprised by your level of ignorance on the topic. This is the epitome of "white privilege".
More often than not, you don't have to worry about labor laws when it comes to hiring practices unless you're the one doing the hiring.
"The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, or EEOC, enforces Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which was signed by President Lyndon B. Johnson. Title VII prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, national origin, religion and sex."
A multi-national would need to have someone at an executive level to manage this kind of effort to make sure that (1) They're doing what's legal. (2) They're doing the overall right thing. (3) They are educating their employees on #1 and #2.
People go on about minorities not being hired due to the colour of their skin but the colour of a persons skin is also used to get them a job when accusations of racism are made.
I was directly involved in one such incident. I used to work with a group of electronic repair technicians, many had diplomas, some had basic electronics education and one had a degree, the only person in the repair team who had a degree in Electronics. He was an extremely talented guy but his attitude and overall personality sucked. Because he was the only one with an electronics degree he felt he was better than everyone else, even the repair department supervisor who had a degree in sociology but basic electronics knowledge (an older man who had years of management experience, hence why he got the job in the first place) (the company was a new build). Over the years both men clashed over various issues and it got to the point where neither liked one another.
Move forward a few years and the repair supervisor was given the job of Engineering manager due to the current manager leaving. Anyway, i was working in the engineering office as a trainee engineer when a position of test engineer came up. I overheard the department manager and department supervisor discussion the position and the supervisor mentioned about the degree qualified repair tech. The department manager said no because the guy had an attitude problem, a kind of superior complex due to him being on the only one with a electronics degree. At the time I was good friends with the repair tech so naturally I told him he was not going to get the job.
A day later I was called into the office for a meeting with the manager and supervisor and was asked did i tell this repair tech what i had overheard. Foolishly I said no, which is when the supervisor said ' Well, there was only 3 of us in the room and that it hadn't come from either of them. Then i owned up and said yes it was me but that the only reason I told him is because me and him were friends and that he wasn't going to get the job because of his personality.
Well apparently, what had happened is that not long after I hold told my friend what I had overheard, he went straight to Human resources and made a racism complaint against the engineering manager in that the manager was not going to consider him for the job because the man is a racist towards people of colour, yes, my friend was an Indian, his family originally came from Delhi. Now, back to that meeting of mine, the manager said the repair tech has now made a complaint of racism and that he told HR that he was not going to get the job because the engineering manager does not like people of colour. I told the manager that is not what I told my friend, I said I told him that him (the manager) did not like his attitude and felt such an attitude was not good in the engineering environment. the manager said that HR has told him he now has to hire the repair tech otherwise he's going to go to the local paper and tell them that the new multi national company is racist.
After the meeting I went straight over to my friend where he was working, gave him a good verbal bashing, told him he was a disgrace for using the colour of his skin to get what he wanted, lied about what I had told him and all he could say was 'I do not care, I go what I wanted'. Friendship ended that second.
As such, I am sure there are many of us who can recount many similar stories of minority people using the colour of their skin to force their way into getting what they want from their employer and from the company. Not everything is about how badly people of minorities are treated, minorities behave just as badly, claiming racism to get what they want.
I was directly involved in one such incident. I used to work with a group of electronic repair technicians, many had diplomas, some had basic electronics education and one had a degree, the only person in the repair team who had a degree in Electronics. He was an extremely talented guy but his attitude and overall personality sucked. Because he was the only one with an electronics degree he felt he was better than everyone else, even the repair department supervisor who had a degree in sociology but basic electronics knowledge (an older man who had years of management experience, hence why he got the job in the first place) (the company was a new build). Over the years both men clashed over various issues and it got to the point where neither liked one another.
Move forward a few years and the repair supervisor was given the job of Engineering manager due to the current manager leaving. Anyway, i was working in the engineering office as a trainee engineer when a position of test engineer came up. I overheard the department manager and department supervisor discussion the position and the supervisor mentioned about the degree qualified repair tech. The department manager said no because the guy had an attitude problem, a kind of superior complex due to him being on the only one with a electronics degree. At the time I was good friends with the repair tech so naturally I told him he was not going to get the job.
A day later I was called into the office for a meeting with the manager and supervisor and was asked did i tell this repair tech what i had overheard. Foolishly I said no, which is when the supervisor said ' Well, there was only 3 of us in the room and that it hadn't come from either of them. Then i owned up and said yes it was me but that the only reason I told him is because me and him were friends and that he wasn't going to get the job because of his personality.
Well apparently, what had happened is that not long after I hold told my friend what I had overheard, he went straight to Human resources and made a racism complaint against the engineering manager in that the manager was not going to consider him for the job because the man is a racist towards people of colour, yes, my friend was an Indian, his family originally came from Delhi. Now, back to that meeting of mine, the manager said the repair tech has now made a complaint of racism and that he told HR that he was not going to get the job because the engineering manager does not like people of colour. I told the manager that is not what I told my friend, I said I told him that him (the manager) did not like his attitude and felt such an attitude was not good in the engineering environment. the manager said that HR has told him he now has to hire the repair tech otherwise he's going to go to the local paper and tell them that the new multi national company is racist.
After the meeting I went straight over to my friend where he was working, gave him a good verbal bashing, told him he was a disgrace for using the colour of his skin to get what he wanted, lied about what I had told him and all he could say was 'I do not care, I go what I wanted'. Friendship ended that second.
As such, I am sure there are many of us who can recount many similar stories of minority people using the colour of their skin to force their way into getting what they want from their employer and from the company. Not everything is about how badly people of minorities are treated, minorities behave just as badly, claiming racism to get what they want.
There is zero evidence of “privilege” in that statement. I interpreted that simply as astonishment that this responsibility would be a C suite position, rather than a functionary under their HR Hierarchy. But Apple is free to create whatever C level roles they wish, and I believe that they can and should retain this position to protect their shareholders, comply with the law, and also to ensure that representation and opportunities somewhat reflect the changing face of the nation Where Apple is based. The epitome of white privilege would be Something far more sinister like white police getting away with murder of minorities because of superficial appearances and deep rooted prejudices. The guy made a statement because this is a relatively new concept for Specific C level responsibilities and you reached for woke hyperbole because he didn’t conform to the new language. Ridicule is divisive and not helpful.
I think that the role should be Intended to be filled by a minority, but I don’t think that should be a requirement. White people do not universally own “privilege”.
Great point. Affordable childcare can be a big equalizer between genders. Maybe arranging that should be the role of society/government at large (state, municipality etc.) and not the company, but some employers have also arranged childcare to attract female workers. Some companies in my country have had their own daycare centre for 70 years or more.
I wouldn't fault the minorities themselves. Maybe you could argue that certain cultures don't value for example STEM careers, but more likely is that they didn't have the opportunity to even apply, because of not affording proper education etc.
First of all, I didn't see anyone saying what you wrote. USA indeed is a diverse melting pot of people with origins from all around the world. Most likely it's not the most racist country in the world. But the diversity of the population doesn't lessen the racism. Any extremists thrive on division, left or right, but I don't see how this is a left-right political issue.
Equality of outcome may look good on paper, but forcing that will lessen the freedom of people. I remember reading that given equal opportunities, people chose still career paths according to gender, for example men chose engineering more often, women nursing. If you force an equal outcome, you force people to choose career paths that they don't want.
Well, no. I did exaggerate in my post in this point. My point was that the other extreme would be that to force equal outcome, that would be done. For specific positions, like this diversity chief, some people here commented that the position should only be filled by someone from a minority and of course these attitudes may also exist in hiring companies.