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Apple's Fines in Dutch Antitrust Case Hit 50 Million Euros

There is no limit to how low Apple Inc would go considering Tim Cook’s backdoor deal with China in 2016.
Apple instead of resolving the issues with Dutch regulators, decided to piss them off by offering a much worse alternative to developers.
Tim Cook needs immediate course correction before its too late. He doesn’t enjoy the public perception immunity that leaders like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk do.
Especially because the upcoming Apple Car would open the gates of hell for him, considering how wretched the auto industry is over the world.
 
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ouimetnick said:
Apple can either “comply with all laws in countries that we operate” (Tim Cook’s words) or they can pay the price. They have no problem following all laws and regulations in authoritarian countries like China for some reason. ?
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The alternative to not following laws in this case is just fines (with a ceiling no less). The alternatives when it comes to internet security laws in China and elsewhere is getting kicked out of the market. If the Dutch threatened Apple with expulsion from the market over this issue I bet the response would be very different.
 
Funny as Apple did comply with the % long time ago, keeping the binaries separate makes sense from compliance and security perspective, it also doesn’t add that much overhead to developers so what the issue is? EU and EU member countries constantly pushing agenda on items they don’t fully comprehend I’m afraid. Leave it up to the customer.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl said:
While I can grasp your thinking, I would not want Mac developers forced to sell through only a single source at all. Pinching competition down to 1 source is almost always bad for consumers. Yes, there could very well be a net security positive but it would bring a lot of negatives.

As is, we can buy through the Mac store and only the Mac store if we like. Or we can buy third party... or get some apps in 1X-app bundles for $10, etc. We can KNOW we are taking added risk from NOT buying only from Apple but it's up to us as owners of our computers to decide to take that risk or not. If we do and we make a huge mistake, that's not Apple's fault- they even WARN us when we want to install something from outside sources.

But again, we don't even need to debate this. Here's a perfect opportunity for Apple to PROVE the disaster of making the iOS store more like the macOS store, focused on only a single country... who through monthly fines have "forced Apple into the action" (so that if it IS a disaster Apple can both claim "I told you so" AND "you forced this upon yourselves... the only option now is to destroy those infected iDevices and buy brand new ones").

It would show everyone else in the world the absolute devastation and misery caused by doing this- just as we Mac users all suffer utter cataclysms by having this purchasing flexibility now- and thus make everyone else back off of similar demands. Think of if as a consumer beta test, isolated to a single group that may turn out to be a good thing, no thing or a potential extinction event. It's so, soooooo nice of Apple to try to protect the Dutch from the ramification of this terrible want... but sometimes you simply have to let the baby touch a hot stove to learn about getting burned.

Hard proof in a smallish test like that would be much more valuable to the cause than the easy perception of "protect our cash cow" spin. Best of all, a test like that would have NO effect at all on the entire rest of the world even if it manages to sink the whole country like Atlantis... or summon fire & brimstone... or locusts... or the 4 horsemen.
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Unfortunately, the more recent ruling by the ACM makes this much harder. Apple wanted developer to offer two distinctly different versions of the app, which would be relatively easy for Apple to track. The ACM wants developers to offer a single version that offers, inside the app, two different ways to make in-app purchases. Apple would have to monitor actions that take lace inside the app themselves in order to track alternative payment transactions. In order to do this, Apple would have to violate all of the privacy strictures that they claim to defend and are one of the key parts of their product differentiation.
 
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sw1tcher said:
Another one of those having options is somehow bad arguments.

So sick of this crap. Want alt-stores and alt-payments? Fine. I have no problem with that as long as using them is an option and not a requirement. I look forward to the future where iOS users have options like macOS users.
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One can hope Apple incorporates something similar to gatekeeper for malware protection with next major iOS/IPadOS releases, not claim the app store filtering is the only means to keep iOS/IPadOS safe.
 
The next fine should start with 50 million for the first week, and doubling every week there after.
 
sw1tcher said:
Another one of those having options is somehow bad arguments.

So sick of this crap. Want alt-stores and alt-payments? Fine. I have no problem with that as long as using them is an option and not a requirement. I look forward to the future where iOS users have options like macOS users.
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MacOS users do not have choice. MacOS users are locked into whatever distribution channel the dev chooses and most go it alone. This is the same level of "choice" that iOS users have.

iOS provides a unique, one-stop-shop, experience for apps, payments and support that focuses on privacy protection which IMHO provides a great customer experience.

MacOS, like the PC world, forces users to scour the intarwebz for apps and locks them into potentially no-name payment processors (ex: not every dev uses ApplePay, PayPal or Amazon for payments).

Ask yourself what you really want:

1) A single location and login for searching, comparing, downloading, upgrading, paying and support (payments) for apps that gives you a report card view what data they are collecting.

or

2) A login for the Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Steam, Google, Facebook, Epic, stores.... plus all the independent ones where you need to give them all your personal information and receive no warnings as to what data they are collecting about you and selling to god knows who.
 
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gnipgnop said:
The weird thing about this situation is that the non-compliance part was focused on binaries, not on 3rd party payment options. I don't remember Tinder, Spotify, Epic, Microsoft or any other big dollar developer complaining about binaries, yet that's what has caused the continuing fines. Apple complied with the 3rd party payment aspect a long time ago.
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But the implementation is not practical
 
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icanhazmac said:
So sick of this crap, want alt-stores and alt-payments go buy Android. I am not looking forward to the future experience that idiots are looking to legislate into existence.
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Well..... Apple pulled out of selling content or letting other platforms purchase apple content from the Apple TV app... And then said the offical reason why was 30% was to high of a cut to be paying...

So even apples own admission they charge to much... So I feel like thats shooting themselves in the foot.. Even Apple admits they are charging to much when someone else charges apple the same thing. If 30% is to much for a giant corporation with hundreds of USD in the bank then its considerably to much for smaller devs.
 
sw1tcher said:
Another one of those having options is somehow bad arguments.

So sick of this crap. Want alt-stores and alt-payments? Fine. I have no problem with that as long as using them is an option and not a requirement. I look forward to the future where iOS users have options like macOS users.
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No, "Another one of those FORCING CERTAIN options is somehow bad" arguments.

You have lots of options. You just expect someone else to make you happy by giving you what you want.
 
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icanhazmac said:
MacOS users do not have choice. MacOS users are locked into whatever distribution channel the dev chooses.

iOS provides a unique, one-stop-shop, experience for apps, payments and support that focuses on privacy protection which IMHO provides a great customer experience.

MacOS, like the PC world, forces users to scour the intarwebz for apps and locks them into potentially no-name payment processors (ex: not every dev uses ApplePay, PayPal or Amazon for payments).

Ask yourself what you really want:

1) A single location and login for searching, comparing, downloading, upgrading, paying and support (payments) for apps that gives you a report card view what data they are collecting.

or

2) A login for the Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Steam, Google, Facebook, Epic, stores.... plus all the independent ones where you need to give them all your personal information and receive no warnings as to what data they are collecting about you and selling to god knows who.
Click to expand...

All I’m asking for is sideloading. I use apps that Apple will never approve for legal or political reasons.
 
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IamTimCook said:
Jaywalking Association: Here is a 10 cent fine for Jaywalking.
Citizen: Cool, I'll be sure to get around to paying that. /s
Letter in the mail: Your fine has increased to 50 cents on count of missing payment deadlines.
Citizen: Cool! - Throws letter in thrash.
Letter in the mail: You are requested in court (a real court to argue merits against national laws) to discuss your Jaywalking charge. If found guilty you may be required to pay full fine of 50 cents.
Citizen: Sweet now we can get down to business.
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You joke, but I used to live near a beach that was $0.25 to park for 10 minutes and a $5 fine if it was expired.
 
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icanhazmac said:
MacOS users do not have choice. MacOS users are locked into whatever distribution channel the dev chooses.

iOS provides a unique, one-stop-shop, experience for apps, payments and support that focuses on privacy protection which IMHO provides a great customer experience.

MacOS, like the PC world, forces users to scour the intarwebz for apps and locks them into potentially no-name payment processors (ex: not every dev uses ApplePay, PayPal or Amazon for payments).

Ask yourself what you really want:

1) A single location and login for searching, comparing, downloading, upgrading, paying and support (payments) for apps that gives you a report card view what data they are collecting.

or

2) A login for the Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Steam, Google, Facebook, Epic, stores.... plus all the independent ones where you need to give them all your personal information and receive no warnings as to what data they are collecting about you and selling to god knows who.
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I would want to use Apps which Apple doesn’t approve of.
 
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SoldOnApple said:
One of the things I like about iPhone is not getting spam messages or calls from infected iPhones. On the other hand I would really love to get a fully featured game emulator that takes full advantage of the processing power of my iPad and iPhone.
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Apple will never allow apps that violate copyright or patent laws, and they will remove apps for legal and political reasons, which sucks.

All I’m asking is native side loading support.
 
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icanhazmac said:
MacOS users do not have choice. MacOS users are locked into whatever distribution channel the dev chooses. IOS provides a unique, one-stop-shop, experience for apps, payments and support that focuses on privacy protection which IMHO provides a great customer experience. MacOS, like the PC world, forces users to scour the intarwebz for apps and locks them into potentially no-name payment processors (ex: not every dev uses ApplePay, PayPal or Amazon for payments).
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Oh come now, we don't have any choice? Devs are perfectly capable of selling software correctly from their own websites using secure transaction, compared to the App Store.

They have access to professional web sites that can provide all those services if they can't operate their own just like any other online business. Lots of smaller developers partner with online service providers.

It not like Apple's App Store is the best, most secure, sleep well at night solution that you'll ever need.
 
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WiseAJ said:
Then get an Android, it's what it is made for. Problem solved!
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I want to use iOS apps on Apple devices that Apple doesn’t approve of, or can’t approve due to political pressure or legal reasons.

For example, Telegram in Hong Kong, or VPN apps in China, or drone strike counters in the US, or even a modded YouTube app.
 
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ct2k7 said:
No, because I should own my device. The App Store is dictating political decisions to me that I did not consent to.

And let’s be honest, I didn’t buy the phone just for the App Store.
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Isn't consenting one of the first things you do when you get an iPhone? I don't think you can skip it. It's on the box and the setup has a required software prompt.

Regulars probably know I am the first one here to argue that we should own software, but I am going to need a little more to get behind that statement.
 
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