Apple... once again being it's usual very polarizing self, hiring someone who by virtue of his executive position at Adobe is going to attract this type of negativity, even if he's a great guy.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's Hiring of Kevin Lynch Questioned Amid Concerns Over His Staunch Defense of Flash
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
No, but as one of Adobe's chief tech guys, he could have spearheaded an effort for it to run efficiently on an iPhone. But he didn't (or maybe upper management told him not to). Also remember that he was one of the chief Flash developers back in its Macromedia days. So I don't buy the statement that he was "just doing his job."
Perhaps Apple realizes that HTML-5 isn't advancing as quickly as they hoped, and they need someone to bridge the gap.
I just got through reading this article over at Ars Technica, and one of the writers there posted the best response I've seen to people making a huge deal about this.
A lot of people here, and over there, and all across the internet, think of what these businesses do as some kind of war, and you have to pick sides. Like no one had anything bad to say about Adobe until Steve Jobs bashed Flash. Now you see people going around, talking about how they're the worst company in the world.
But, you know, it's not a war. These people don't hate each other. They talk smack about each other because it's business. Apple does it. Google does it. Adobe does it. And while we're all here making a big deal about it, all the execs of these companies are probably meeting together after work to tell stupid jokes and compare the size of their bank accounts.
So don't be so shocked when one of the "bad guys" goes to work for one of the "good guys". It's all just a part of the job for them.
Aurich Lawson said:
A lot of people here, and over there, and all across the internet, think of what these businesses do as some kind of war, and you have to pick sides. Like no one had anything bad to say about Adobe until Steve Jobs bashed Flash. Now you see people going around, talking about how they're the worst company in the world.
But, you know, it's not a war. These people don't hate each other. They talk smack about each other because it's business. Apple does it. Google does it. Adobe does it. And while we're all here making a big deal about it, all the execs of these companies are probably meeting together after work to tell stupid jokes and compare the size of their bank accounts.
So don't be so shocked when one of the "bad guys" goes to work for one of the "good guys". It's all just a part of the job for them.
Its not in the Google Play store because Adobe pulled support for Flash on Android.
Sure you can find it somewhere else and install it - but if it breaks you get to keep both pieces - and Flash is something you do want to keep up to date with security patches.
Gruber is a bozo. That's all I have to say. I can't believe people listen to this guy as closely as some do.
Of course the guy defended Flash otherwise I bet he'd be out of a job. To that point, blaming Flash performance so much on Flash itself is like saying "why won't Crysis 3 run on my 486". Also, the way it's been used previously doesn't really lend to a small-screen mobile environment. The idea with Flash is that you can bring native-like applications to the web in a robust and simple way (HTML5 canvass authoring tools are getting better now) and have it displayed exactly the same across every platform no matter the browser.
If that's such a ****** and horrible idea... if it weren't for Flash we wouldn't have some pretty amazing interactive websites.
This isn't to say however, that if further work is done with the HTML5/CSS3 standards and tween-based HTML5 animation tools, as well as further JS runtime performance optimizations via browsers etc. are improved that it couldn't fully replace Flash. However, that doesn't negate the fact that if a phone's CPU and GPU are only so fast... it's still the limiting factor in the end, and Javascript STILL will never be close to performing like a native application.
I just don't understand the rampant "Flash sucks" rage that bozos like Gruber get into. The guy is a ****ing writer, not a tech wizard.
Of course the guy defended Flash otherwise I bet he'd be out of a job. To that point, blaming Flash performance so much on Flash itself is like saying "why won't Crysis 3 run on my 486". Also, the way it's been used previously doesn't really lend to a small-screen mobile environment. The idea with Flash is that you can bring native-like applications to the web in a robust and simple way (HTML5 canvass authoring tools are getting better now) and have it displayed exactly the same across every platform no matter the browser.
If that's such a ****** and horrible idea... if it weren't for Flash we wouldn't have some pretty amazing interactive websites.
This isn't to say however, that if further work is done with the HTML5/CSS3 standards and tween-based HTML5 animation tools, as well as further JS runtime performance optimizations via browsers etc. are improved that it couldn't fully replace Flash. However, that doesn't negate the fact that if a phone's CPU and GPU are only so fast... it's still the limiting factor in the end, and Javascript STILL will never be close to performing like a native application.
I just don't understand the rampant "Flash sucks" rage that bozos like Gruber get into. The guy is a ****ing writer, not a tech wizard.
Gruber is increasingly sounding like a soured troll. I'm already enjoying the moment when his larger-iphone-with-same-resolution prediction will be flat out wrong when it will be released.
I wonder if he will take some of that claim-chowder he has widely available for others himself, or just gush about how great a super retina 5" iphone turns out to be.
Most overrated critic in the entire tech industry.
I wonder if he will take some of that claim-chowder he has widely available for others himself, or just gush about how great a super retina 5" iphone turns out to be.
Most overrated critic in the entire tech industry.
Exactly. The bozo explosion already started. And guess what, the mighty Steve started it with Forstall.
Wow!
A sane post about Flash on this forum!
(BTW, ironically, MacRumors is sustained largely because of the Flash banner ads appearing below as I type.)
Thank you!
what a joke...
Didn't Steve Jobs ask for Adobe to show them a version of flash that didnt crash and/or eat up tons of battery life, and they couldn't?
That's what makes it so funny about how these Adobe clowns are saying "they can't get it to run on the iphone".
Didn't Steve Jobs ask for Adobe to show them a version of flash that didnt crash and/or eat up tons of battery life, and they couldn't?
That's what makes it so funny about how these Adobe clowns are saying "they can't get it to run on the iphone".
Polarizing who? Commenters on forums? Nobody cares.
What large company does not do things that people like to comment on? Apple isn't any different from anyone else in this regard.
What large company does not do things that people like to comment on? Apple isn't any different from anyone else in this regard.
Proving you know nothing about Forstall or his history and achievements. Far from a bozo.
Ws he not well liked? Maybe...People who get things done often aren't in the real grown up world.
Ws he not well liked? Maybe...People who get things done often aren't in the real grown up world.
Exactly. The bozo explosion already started. And guess what, the mighty Steve started it with Forstall.
Just like to throw one pro-Flash vote in. Via Flash + Air, I've been able to release a game on Steam which has been really solid, I get basically 0 bug reports over 3 platforms, and have an in-browser demo that people can try before they buy, that's a massive thing. And I don't even think that 99% of people realise it's made in Actionscript.
Although it's not without its problems for a developer, and it's had a few teething troubles in the transition to GPU acceleration, it's still a really powerful tool that really has no alternative (in terms of browser compatibility and a solid offline platform, for 2D specifically. But even 3D-wise, Unity as a browser plugin still has a slow uptake, and it's more likely that people will use the Stage3D exporter in future, in my opinion, for this reason.) So, for the gaming world it's still a massive thing, and cross-platform gaming is getting bigger and bigger these days, and something I've always felt strongly about supporting myself (and have always used OSX to make my games.) And one of the best, cheap ways for new indie developers to reach audiences of millions (which new Flash games do every day.) An 'economy' license for Flash Builder is very affordable, comparable to, say, Game Maker, which has very limited cross-platform capabilities.
Although I'm not using it for my current game (which is more technically demanding), I stand by it being an essential part of the web experience, and I sort of wish it was an option on the phones / pads too, because that would probably prompt Adobe to put more development into that and Air for iOS and optimise it better, and make it more secure.
As an aside, I'm still not convinced by HTML5 at all, and constantly have to opt-out of the YouTube beta.
Although it's not without its problems for a developer, and it's had a few teething troubles in the transition to GPU acceleration, it's still a really powerful tool that really has no alternative (in terms of browser compatibility and a solid offline platform, for 2D specifically. But even 3D-wise, Unity as a browser plugin still has a slow uptake, and it's more likely that people will use the Stage3D exporter in future, in my opinion, for this reason.) So, for the gaming world it's still a massive thing, and cross-platform gaming is getting bigger and bigger these days, and something I've always felt strongly about supporting myself (and have always used OSX to make my games.) And one of the best, cheap ways for new indie developers to reach audiences of millions (which new Flash games do every day.) An 'economy' license for Flash Builder is very affordable, comparable to, say, Game Maker, which has very limited cross-platform capabilities.
Although I'm not using it for my current game (which is more technically demanding), I stand by it being an essential part of the web experience, and I sort of wish it was an option on the phones / pads too, because that would probably prompt Adobe to put more development into that and Air for iOS and optimise it better, and make it more secure.
As an aside, I'm still not convinced by HTML5 at all, and constantly have to opt-out of the YouTube beta.
They couldn't. At that time, the API's that Adobe needed were locked down in OS X and only Apple could use them. Then 2 months before Jobs publically went after Adobe/Flash with his infamous letter, the API's were opened up.
Basically, Adobe was given 2 months to prepare for a battle royal, and no warning that it was coming.
As to your second point, Apple had no interest in allowing Flash on the iPhone, because it eats into their walled garden. If you can make an app using Flash and distribute it on iPhone OS, OS X, Android, Linux, and anything else that has a flash plugin, you've removed the monopoly on an iPhone app store. From Apple's point of view, Flash was terrible for an app store and their bottom line.
At any event, the API's that Adobe would need to write a flash plugin for iOS still don't exist, so it has nothing to do with Adobe.
If you don't like Gruber then don't read what he has to say or write something yourself of equivalent quality.
Lynch did more than defend Flash, he was an obnoxious twit about it as were others at Adobe. He also lied about it.
Flash is garbage. It was mildly useful in the early days but Adobe tried to make it into a full blown development environment that was highly proprietary. Nobody mourns it's passing except for Flash "developers".
It's a resource pig, bloated, and highly insecure.
Google is as glad to see it going away as Apple is no matter what they may have said before.
Many large companies do not allow Flash for these reasons and also block it on external web sites.
Lynch did more than defend Flash, he was an obnoxious twit about it as were others at Adobe. He also lied about it.
Flash is garbage. It was mildly useful in the early days but Adobe tried to make it into a full blown development environment that was highly proprietary. Nobody mourns it's passing except for Flash "developers".
It's a resource pig, bloated, and highly insecure.
Google is as glad to see it going away as Apple is no matter what they may have said before.
Many large companies do not allow Flash for these reasons and also block it on external web sites.
Exactly. His job was to advocate Flash. My company makes the best widget sequencers in the world, but if I go to work for a competitor, then I'll advocate their widget sequencers instead.
Perhaps this guy was hired because, I don't know, he's very good at his job or something.
Just because Steve is no more does not make him right in all terms. His theory of A hiring A+ players is a consulting jargon used for many years across organizations. Its termed in the same coin 4 grades of managers. "the bozo explosion" where did that come from. I can guarantee Apple is filled up with those as well. Its just that they have made a great cash cow product that works well.
I love the iPhone but the remaining are just at par and a beauty toys for home. If it hadn't been for the advent of iPhone the apple stock would still be a struggling factor if you all remember.
Nobody said he was. The reason he got fired is he refused to accept any responsibility for a public product failure for his project. When every executive signs an apology letter for a product flub except the executive most directly responsible for said flub that says volumes about the type of person he is.
You say this as if it's a good thing. The fact that traditional purchasers of Creative Suite software no longer get the updates they used to get, combined with the fact that CS6 is the most bug-ridden version of CS I've ever used (and I've used all of them), says to me that all Creative Cloud has done is turn Adobe products into a software ghetto.
Adobe is no longer a company focused on its users and on making great products; only on quarterly profits. When they bought their only competition -- Macromedia -- they no longer had to focus on innovation. Frankly, I'm sure Kevin is happy to get out of there. Adobe's CEO has ruined that place.
Are we really reporting Gruber's poor quality trolling as "concerns" now?
Can I write a blog and get on the front page? Gruber is notable for being a source of leaks from Apple. But his analysis is poor.
Can I write a blog and get on the front page? Gruber is notable for being a source of leaks from Apple. But his analysis is poor.
no. he wasnt just some spokesperson. as CTO he was personally responsible *for* the product. who doesnt love their own offspring?
----------
no, as the CTO his job was to oversee and *build* flash. if it sucked then it was his job to fix that. or to change the company direction w/ regards to core tech....thats the CTO's job.