Apple's Internal Policy on Bad Pixels Revealed

[kazmac]

if this is true

If this is real/true:

Boo on Apple...particularly that the customer can only exchange once if the replacement is worse.

 

[alent1234]

I hate to buck the trend but the nature of LCD manufacture means that the occasional dead pixel is inevitable and acceptable.

There is an ISO standard 13406-2 which categorises LCD panels into 4 classes (Class 1 to Class 4). Class 1 is for very demanding applications where no dead pixels are acceptable. These are therefore very expensive. Consumer electronics usually use Class 2 panels which tolerate around 1-5 dead pixels (depending on the exact nature of the fault).

This document by Hyundai is an interesting read - LINK (PDF)

My point is, if you want perfect displays, Apple would have to use Class 1 displays and your already expensive MacBook Pro gets a lot more expensive.

I know how you all feel though, but these strictly aren't faults - they're within tolerance given the class of the display. The fact people are getting them replaced by Apple is more a courtesy rather than a right. Apple are using Class 2 displays just like every other computer company which means the occasional dead pixel is inevitable.

except that apple charges a premium on their products because they quality is supposedly better. if wal mart will take returns with no questions asked, Apple should as well

 

[Pentad]

except that apple charges a premium on their products because they quality is supposedly better. if wal mart will take returns with no questions asked, Apple should as well

I could not agree more.

 

[layte]

Dell has a pretty good policy on their premium panels. If I recall, in the past they used to let you return for any bad pixels but now up to 5 dark pixels are acceptable according to their policy. In my experience they, too, let you return for even one.

Read my post from earlier. On Ultrasharp displays Dell still offer a single pixel = new display swapout. Unless their website lies.

 

[logandzwon]

On a new product it should be perfect. On a screen 2 years and 360 days since purchase, (almost at the end of it's AppleCare,) a couple dead/stuck pixels are ok.

 

[Chrispy]

Read my post from earlier. On Ultrasharp displays Dell still offer a single pixel = new display swapout. Unless their website lies.

They offer single pixel replacement for bright/stuck pixels but not for dark/dead pixels. You have to have 6 or more of those.

http://dell.to/9GhgkJ

 

[Kestrel452]

If I see one bad or stuck pixel on my iPad 2 when it comes out, I sure as hell won't take no for an answer when demanding an exchange. If worse comes to worse, I'll bring James Gandolfini with me to the Apple Store.

 

[layte]

They offer single pixel replacement for bright/stuck pixels but not for dark/dead pixels. You have to have 6 or more of those.

http://dell.to/9GhgkJ

Ugh, nasty.

At least dark Pixels are very, very rare and they classify it as subpixels rather than a full 6 pixels.

Mind you, still a better policy than what Apple offer.

 

[Heilage]

Hey people, I'm just throwing it out there. The panel manufacturers decide what is the amount of acceptable anomalies, not Apple...

 

[Kestrel452]

Hey people, I'm just throwing it out there. The panel manufacturers decide what is the amount of acceptable anomalies, not Apple...

 

[CHSE]

Thats exactly what apple told me- but they exchanged my 2 dead px display anyway

I was just at the genius bar last week, with a nearly 2 year old computer with 2 stuck green pixel in the lower 1/3 of the screen (a white 24" imac). I got exactly the reply you describe: 'We normally do not exchange a screen under 9 dead pixels, but I can see this is really annoying, so we will exchange it under you apple care plan anyway'. They warned my however that if the new display has more dead pixels they will not exchange it again if it is under 9. They told me this 3 times! The new display just arrived so I will keep my fingers crossed that it is OK. What everyone should do is to test a new computer and just return it under the 2 weeks return policy if it has dead pixels.

 

[kudukudu]

I agree that this policy is ridiculous. I also agree that apple should have a higher quality bar given the premium charged for their products.

I would like to underscore the point someone made earlier about the folks in apple stores appearing to have a fair amount of discretion to make customers happy based on my very limited experience.

I had two batteries used with the original 15" macbook pro that expanded so they were bursting their enclosures (this is a bit of a safety issue since batteries that expand can also explode). These batteries were probably 4-5 years old. The folks at the apple store gave me two brand new batteries with very little prodding.

 

[Chrispy]

Ugh, nasty.

At least dark Pixels are very, very rare and they classify it as subpixels rather than a full 6 pixels.

Mind you, still a better policy than what Apple offer.

Absolutely! Leaps and bounds better than Apple's policy. I always thought it was one pixel replacement for all Ultrasharp displays as well. I was surprised when I saw their policy.

 

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

As a graphic designer, I've never had the quality of my work compromised by a single pixel anomaly, no matter how annoying it may be.

Yeah. I'm a graphics/web designer and my cinema display has a stuck red pixel somewhere up in the top left area of the screen and a few other slightly odd pixels. Has never impacted my ability to do my job.

 

[colinmack]

For me, anything but zero is unacceptable - I understand I'm pickier than most, but I'm not going to pay all that money and stare at something for years that I consider defective. If you don't consider it defective and it doesn't bother you, more power to you, but I consider a dead pixel a defect.

My solution is simple - if it has an LCD display on it, I'll buy it from somewhere like Future Shop that has a no-questions-asked return policy. If it doesn't have a screen, I'll get it from the Apple Store (where I actually get a discount through my employer, but I'll happily pay a bit more to get it risk-free).

 

[aristobrat]

I am contacting Apple today. I have had a dead pixel since I took my 13 in MacBook (aluminum...right before the 13 in MBP release) out of the box in 2009. I don't care if it's one pixel, it's in the middle and drives me nuts.

*Update: I have an appointment for tomorrow...maybe a new MacBook Pro for me? We'll see....

If anything, you'll leave your computer there for a few days while they replace the screen. You're not getting a brand-new MBP.

 

[aristobrat]

On their premium laptops, Dell offers a $79 option that guarantees you won't have any pixels that are "stuck in the on position".

Wonder if Apple would ever consider doing the same?

 

[chezhoy]

It's just wishful thinking

If anything, you'll leave your computer there for a few days while they replace the screen. You're not getting a brand-new MBP.

 

[Timur]

Dell: "Ever notice a bright spot on a monitor that won't go away? Dell has - and we know it's annoying. That's why Dell is now offering a Premium Panel Guarantee that ensures zero "bright pixel" defects on your UltraSharp, Professional and Alienware monitors purchased from Dell."

Samung: "Yes all of our monitors are covered with a zero dead pixel policy for the first 14 Days of purchase. Outside of the 14 day period our 17" Value Range have a ≥ 3 and/or >0 in Centre Window. Our 17" to 32" Prestige Range have a zero dead pixel policy for the 3 year period."

Viewsonic Australia: "FOR ALL LCD Monitors Only

Applicable Models & Period covered

30 days Zero Dead Pixel policy for all ViewSonic LCD monitors."

Viewsonic Europe: "Additionally we exceed the ISO specification by ofering zero defective COMPLETE pixels and Zero defective "Sub-Pixels" on Viewsonic VP Series products. (i.e. zero contigunous Red, Green and Blue sub-pixel group)"

Some of these may be outdated, but still prove that Apple's warranty policy is still among the worst in the business/premium market.

 

[pr5owner]

How many dead pixels are acceptable for display models in my local Apple store?

How many dead pixels on the monitor that Jobs sits down in front of?

That is how many I am willing to accept for the model I pay for. I am only asking for the same quality that Apple is willing to accept for themselves, and the quality that the display model leads me to believe I will receive.

i agree with you, if your spending at LEAST $1200+ on an imac it better be damn perfect if an Asus 23" monitor has a 0 bad pixel guarantee for $160 (if you buy the Asus, you get a bigger monitor, and have $1000 to spend on HW)

$1000 will get you a gaming machine with a 6x Core CPU and a 6xxx series ATi card.

 

[pr5owner]

Hey people, I'm just throwing it out there. The panel manufacturers decide what is the amount of acceptable anomalies, not Apple...

wtf is this comment? Apple provides the warranty do they not? apple is making the profit here, they provide the customer service, THEY DEAL WITH IT.

whatever outsourced OEM/ODM's that apple went with to make their products should not impact you as apple is selling you the complete package.

 

[Iamthinking]

These are simply their suppliers specs. They can't guarantee something that their supply will not guarantee.

Rubbish. LG (Apple's display manufacturer) has had a zero bad pixel policy in place for at least 2 years.

The first dead pixel I saw on a display in a while, ironically, was on one (of the 4 replacements) of my 2010 iMac 21.5". Near the centre of the screen. Actually don't know how many pixels were dead, but it resulted in a distinct dead-spot/blob. Apple rep asked me over the phone to count them, as a certain number was tolerable! I laughed at her and told her to shove the product up where the yellow tint don't shine.

Iamthinking

 

[SactoMacUser]

I'm sorry, but I had to register to reply after seeing this topic. Perhaps I will stick around, who knows?

Anywho, it seems that a lot of those out there are misinterpreting what this policy is. As a former ACWW employee working in Tier 1-CPU, we had to deal with displays somewhat often and this policy came up.

This policy is essentially in effect for those who have the AppleCare protection plan AND are outside of their return window from the date of purchase.

The dead pixel policy is indeed an industry standard. Regardless of what the computer manufacturer chooses to do about their own branded products and return policies (note: Dell), this is the information coming from the manufacturers of the displays themselves. In this world of factories, manufacturing processes becoming more automated, and cheaper components being used (again, by manufacturers), it is inevitable that some displays will have non-functioning pixels out of the box or soon after they have begun their life as your monitor/display. Also, for those who are questioning as to why their iPhone/iPod gets a zero tolerance on pixel policy as opposed to an iMac/Macbook/Cinema display does not? It's simple: There are incredibly more pixels in a larger display than the smaller one. Just because there is what appears to be a "zero tolerance" does not necessarily mean that the allowable range is 0, but rather 0-.999 dead pixels. When you apply whatever formula the LCD manufacturing industry uses for determining these amounts, it is easy to see why some would be at an apparent zero, whereas your 30" Cinema Display might have multiple dead pixels and still be within specs.

Technically, you can return a display any amount of times within 14 days. Note that if you do this, that there is no guarantee that the next display won't have a similar issue (dead pixels) and that it can even be worse than the original display. This does not mean that you are now stuck with a second display with issues, but from that point on each return that you make will be subject to the 10% restocking fee (since the box would be open, otherwise how would you know there is a problem?) and is good for the 14 days. Beyond that, either your one year hardware warranty that comes standard or your three-year hardware service and support agreement through AppleCare will cover the one additional exchange. Of course, depending on your situation, Apple technicians either in store or over the phones at ACWW might grant an exception, but that is up to the discretion of the employee that you consult with.

From a business perspective, this policy also makes sense. If Apple had to exchange and repair, refurbish, and spend money paying workers for all of the displays they would have to fix with an absolute 1-year to 3-year (depending on if you bought APP or not) zero pixel tolerance policy, the displays would end up costing Apple an extraordinary amount of money and resources, and it may no longer be a source of revenue for them. If this were to be true, then perhaps they might abandon selling displays (at least standalone) and you wouldn't want that, would you? Apple has to make money, too, for them to continue to be around and provide you, probably pretty damn near 100% of the time, with a quality product.

This policy has been around for at least a couple of years. Just because nobody from Apple decided to share a snapshot of it from the internal kbase (which I frown upon doing) does not mean that it did not exist. I know that it has certainly been around since I last worked at Apple in 2008, and if this did not cause the sort of uproar before when people were making their returns as normal, why would it matter now? Sometimes, I guess, knowledge can be a dangerous tool for those who do not know how to use it properly.

Just had to get this out. I don't really mind if I make some enemies, but seriously folks? C'mon.

 

[Kuroishi]

Ok few notes:
1)
Working IT for a number of years dealing with Dell "Gold Support" their special warranties mean nothing. They will find any way to avoid making that exchange unless you pay an additional premium for that product. By the time you pay for their deluxe support and their no dead pixel warranty you are almost to the price of a mac monitor that they will almost 100% of the time repair and gets american support. Even without paying additional money. Dell charges for length AND where you get your support from.

2)
Anyone who is any kind of mac owner knows that most of their "Policies" exist to be broken. If someone is upset about something, they will fix it. Both in stores and over the phone.

3)
Being also in graphic design as well as being in a family of designers, having a stuck pixel impacting your well being is a load of hooey. I would take it back if I had a ton like a PSP, but if i have one in the top corner of a 30+" PC monitor? Give me a break. If you don't like it, bring it back. Apple WILL take it back. But like any retailer INCLUDING dell, Asus, LG, etc, you return that 20x they are eventually say no and quote some policy like what is posted. Or say that you are limited to X amount of repairs.

Sorry but that is reality.

 

[layte]

Ok few notes:
1)
Working IT for a number of years dealing with Dell "Gold Support" their special warranties mean nothing. They will find any way to avoid making that exchange unless you pay an additional premium for that product. By the time you pay for their deluxe support and their no dead pixel warranty you are almost to the price of a mac monitor that they will almost 100% of the time repair and gets american support. Even without paying additional money. Dell charges for length AND where you get your support from.

Sorry but that is reality.

I must be living in some kind of fantasy world then, as I have had replacement displays delivered by courier the very next day after I have reported issues with my displays (HP and Dell workstation class displays, with the support included in the list price).

Oh and if I had even a single stuck pixel on a 30" display, I would be stirring up a s**tstorm with the support people for a replacement. If I buy a premium product I expect it to be perfect upon delivery. Thankfully it seems that the likes of HP and Dell understand that and do offer such a service, I know as I have made use of it in the past. No word of a lie I once went through six, that's right six HP L2335 displays in the space of a month as I was after a perfect replacement, each time it was delivered to my door by a courier service.

I guess with Apple moving out of the premium workstation display market (white LED backlights and glossy only, no thanks I'll stick with CCFL or RGB LED thanks) their official support levels now match the product.

I find it strange that the usually exacting standards demanding Apple community are suddenly happy to settle for the mediocre solution.