Apple's iPhone Continues to Outpace Smartphone Industry Growth

[seedster2]

You, on the other hand, are still not catching on. Giving away free phones may boost market share numbers, but they don't actually increase sales in a way that sales matter (profit).

But hey, if RIM and Google want to see their market share numbers grow via 2-for-1 giveaways, more power to them.

That makes no sense. RIM and Google aren't giving their devices away. The carrier is still paying them for the handsets. The carrier hopes that the offer will lock in subscribers and they will recoup their money laid out to the manufacturer.

I don't watch non-US phone deals.

And while the carriers are the ones offering these deals, I am reasonably sure that Apple would not tolerate AT&T running a similar deal on the iPhone because it dilutes the perceived value of the brand.

I have no idea how seriously they skew the numbers, but any rational thinker would deduce that they are skewed to some extent.

As Knight said "that means we don't have to even give any credibility to your critique then. 1 deal on 1 network means nothing on a global scale and iPhone market share numbers we are discussing are worldwide numbers."

If you took the time to look globally when discussing global results you would see that Apple does indeed allow carriers to diminish the perceived value as they give the phone free with certain rate plans overseas. So you either have double standards or prefer to remain in the dark.

You always rush to Apple's defense (sometimes unnecessarily) but please refrain from letting emotional attachments get the best of you. Apple did have a great quarter and I am sure investors are crying all the way to the bank. But Knight's point is illustrated in the numbers.

Often times you and the other zealots bring up sales figures to illustrate Apple's dominance in the mobile phone market, but now all of a sudden these same numbers arent relevant or are skewed when not in your favor. I dont see their loss of marketshare as an indicator for impending demise, but let's not try to make up ridiculous excuses to discount other manufacturers' strides.

 

[LagunaSol]

That makes no sense. RIM and Google aren't giving their devices away. The carrier is still paying them for the handsets. The carrier hopes that the offer will lock in subscribers and they will recoup their money laid out to the manufacturer.

Good grief people, it can't be this difficult to understand. I'm not talking about subsidies, profits, or sales. I'm talking about market share, which is what this post (and Knight's) argument is all about.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the iPhone is free, and the Blackberry is BOGOF. I choose the iPhone, you choose the Blackberry. I walk out the door with one phone, you walk out the door with two. You have just impacted BB market share 2X as much as I have impacted iPhone market share. Sure, you didn't really need two phones, but the 2nd one was free, so why not? I don't care who paid for it, this promotion just artificially impacted market share. You can try to convolute the argument all you want, but it doesn't change this simple fact.

And whether or not I follow worldwide wireless promotions, are you going to argue that other smartphones aren't far more likely to wind up under one of these types of promotions than the iPhone?

Shoot, I think I'll post this comment twice to boost my MacRumors comment market share. Why not?

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

"You, on the other hand, are stil not catching on. Giving away free phones may boost market share numbers, but they don't actually increase sales in a way that sales matter (profit). But hey, if RIM and Google want to see their market share numbers grow via 2-for-1 giveaways, more power to them"

Doesn't this imply you were posting about profit/loss on these handsets Laguna?

 

[LagunaSol]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

"You, on the other hand, are stil not catching on. Giving away free phones may boost market share numbers, but they don't actually increase sales in a way that sales matter (profit). But hey, if RIM and Google want to see their market share numbers grow via 2-for-1 giveaways, more power to them"

Doesn't this imply you were posting about profit/loss on these handsets Laguna?

Um, if you'll read the preceding posts you'll see that this was simply in response to another's comment, which deviated from the original topic (and Knight's argument about Apple's bad holiday for market share). Trying to get back to the original topic is hardly refuting my other arguments in response to the deviations.

Of course it all boils down to this, as it always does:

Them: "Apple lost market share last quarter. INITIATE IPHONE DEATH WATCH!"

Me: "It doesn't help when competitors are giving away free phones."

Them: "FANBOY!!"

And people talk about Apple fanboys while BB fanboys and Android fanboys are just as bad.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

"You, on the other hand, are stil not catching on. Giving away free phones may boost market share numbers, but they don't actually increase sales in a way that sales matter (profit). But hey, if RIM and Google want to see their market share numbers grow via 2-for-1 giveaways, more power to them"



Doesn't this imply you were posting about profit/loss on these handsets Laguna?

Um, if you'll read the preceding posts you'll see that this was simply in response to another's comment, which deviated from the original topic (and Knight's argument about Apple's bad holiday for market share). Trying to get back to the original topic is hardly refuting my other arguments in response to the deviations.



Of course it all boils down to this, as it always does:



Them: "Apple lost market share last quarter. INITIATE IPHONE DEATH WATCH!"



Me: "It doesn't help when competitors are giving away free phones."



Them: "FANBOY!!"



And people talk about Apple fanboys while BB fanboys and Android fanboys are just as bad.

Aah, thanks for the clarification Laguna.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Good grief people, it can't be this difficult to understand. I'm not talking about subsidies, profits, or sales. I'm talking about market share, which is what this post (and Knight's) argument is all about.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the iPhone is free, and the Blackberry is BOGOF. I choose the iPhone, you choose the Blackberry. I walk out the door with one phone, you walk out the door with two. You have just impacted BB market share 2X as much as I have impacted iPhone market share. Sure, you didn't really need two phones, but the 2nd one was free, so why not? I don't care who paid for it, this promotion just artificially impacted market share. You can try to convolute the argument all you want, but it doesn't change this simple fact.

And whether or not I follow worldwide wireless promotions, are you going to argue that other smartphones are far more likely to wind up under one of these types of promotions than the iPhone?

Shoot, I think I'll post this comment twice to boost my MacRumors comment market share. Why not?

Under your argument the iPhone would increase in sales faster because it is free. the BB cost money. BOGO is only that way if you get 2 plans which does cost a lot. iPhone is free out the door so over all the iPhone is cheaper and would get more sales.

 

[LagunaSol]

..duplicate post..

 

[kdarling]

Let's say for the sake of argument that the iPhone is free, and the Blackberry is BOGOF. I choose the iPhone, you choose the Blackberry. I walk out the door with one phone, you walk out the door with two. You have just impacted BB market share 2X as much as I have impacted iPhone market share.

Sure, you didn't really need two phones, but the 2nd one was free, so why not?

The trouble is, you're missing a rather large piece of the equation:

To get the second one free, you have to sign a SECOND TWO-YEAR CONTRACT FOR IT.

So it is not a simple case of "oh gee it's free". Your partner has to choose to use the same type of phone as you for two years... which often means they would've gotten it anyway at reduced cost and impacted the market the same way.

 

[LagunaSol]

The trouble is, you're missing a rather large piece of the equation:

To get the second one free, you have to sign a SECOND TWO-YEAR CONTRACT FOR IT.

So it is not a simple case of "oh gee it's free". Your partner has to choose to use the same type of phone as you for two years... which often means they would've gotten it anyway at reduced cost and impacted the market the same way.

So would you argue that if AT&T were to offer a Buy One iPhone Get One Free offer today that sales wouldn't increase? And if you agree that sales would increase, that market share wouldn't as well? Even worldwide market share? (Because the U.S. is a substantial player in the worldwide electronics market the last time I checked.)

As Knight said "that means we don't have to even give any credibility to your critique then. 1 deal on 1 network means nothing on a global scale and iPhone market share numbers we are discussing are worldwide numbers."

Actually I have full credibility when that 1 network is the only network that offers the iPhone in the biggest electronics market on the planet (the U.S.).

You always rush to Apple's defense (sometimes unnecessarily) but please refrain from letting emotional attachments get the best of you.

Who's emotional? And the point is worth defending when Knight's premise is flawed.

Often times you and the other zealots bring up sales figures to illustrate Apple's dominance in the mobile phone market, but now all of a sudden these same numbers arent relevant or are skewed when not in your favor.

It's completely logical to recognize that free phone giveaways impact market share. In fact, I fully expected to see RIM and Android gain market share when I saw these deals running (i.e. before we saw Apple's actual quarterly numbers). It's science.

I dont see their loss of marketshare as an indicator for impending demise, but let's not try to make up ridiculous excuses to discount other manufacturers' strides.

A completely rational argument (read: giving away free phones increases market share) is a "ridiculous excuse" how exactly? And who is the fanboy here really?

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually I have full credibility when that 1 network is the only network that offers the iPhone in the biggest electronics market on the planet (the U.S.).

I would argue that you're suffering from UScentricity. I'm willing to bet you actually meant : "when that 1 network is the only network that offers the iPhone in the biggest iPhone market on the planet".

Japan and many parts of Europe are probably as big if not bigger than the US as far as electronics and phones in general go. It's not because the iPhone is getting a coldish welcome there that the markets aren't big.

And again, 1 deal on 1 network doesn't market share make. The fact that O2 is giving out iPhones in the UK doesn't seem to inflate the iPhone numbers that much.

Not to mention a free iPhone is much better than a buy one, get one free Blackberry in many ways as has been pointed out. For the blackberry, you need a 2nd person to buy with you, and you're essentially getting half off both devices. A free iPhone is free, no matter if you're alone or 10 people buying it.

Hence, every carrier is guilty of promotions and subsidies. To try to justify Apple's slip in market share even though they just sold the most units ever since the introduction by claiming AT&T's promotion probably did it really lacks credibility and just shows you're grasping at straws.

Apple didn't have a good holiday season because the iPhone is now an old design and the competition is just that much better. Higher res screens that are sharper, upgradeable storage, app stores, faster processors, more options of formats and types (flips, physical keyboard + touch combos), not to mention more customization (how hard is it to make it so I can put a picture behind my icons Apple ? I could do this on my 2002 phone...).

Apple better bring some very needed improvements with version 4.0 of the OS and they better have very solid hardware for the 4th gen or we'll see more of these quarters where their market share slips until they become a niche player like they are with Macs.

A completely rational argument (read: giving away free phones increases market share) is a "ridiculous excuse" how exactly? And who is the fanboy here really?

It's a ridiculous excuse because the iPhone is also being given out free. You ignoring this fact when it has been posted again and again doesn't change it.

 

[LagunaSol]

I would argue that you're suffering from UScentricity. I'm willing to bet you actually meant : "when that 1 network is the only network that offers the iPhone in the biggest iPhone market on the planet".

Um, no, I meant what I said, and no ethnocentrism was involved. China is certainly a bigger mobile phone market than the U.S., but not smartphone market. Japan may be close to the U.S. in that regard. As for "many parts of Europe" - can you be more specific? (Probably not.)

And again, 1 deal on 1 network doesn't market share make.

Actually, there were multiple deals on multiple networks.

The fact that O2 is giving out iPhones in the UK doesn't seem to inflate the iPhone numbers that much.

So you're going to argue that a free iPhone deal in the UK is going to negate the BOGOF deals on multiple carriers on BBs and Android devices in the U.S.? Really?

Not to mention a free iPhone is much better than a buy one, get one free Blackberry in many ways as has been pointed out. For the blackberry, you need a 2nd person to buy with you, and you're essentially getting half off both devices. A free iPhone is free, no matter if you're alone or 10 people buying it.

Do a BOGOF deal on the iPhone in the U.S. and watch inventory drop to zilch within a week.

That "2nd person" who gets the free phone is typically a spouse or dependent, and more than likely one who wouldn't be getting his/her own smarthphone without the freebie deal. Consumers have proven susceptible to these freebie offers even when a contract extension/monthly fee is involved. "Hey, check out my new phone! I didn't really need it - I liked my old one just fine - but I was eligible for an upgrade and it was FREE!" Happens every..single..day.

Hence, every carrier is guilty of promotions and subsidies.

I never said they weren't. You're misrepresenting my argument. I have yet to see a BOGOF deal (or anything like it) on the iPhone in the U.S. though.

To try to justify Apple's slip in market share even though they just sold the most units ever since the introduction by claiming AT&T's promotion probably did it really lacks credibility and just shows you're grasping at straws.

I don't need to "justify" anything. Facts are facts, and the fact is BOGOF deals increase market share. Do you think Mac market share would jump if Apple offered a BOGOF deal on Macs? Of course it would.

And quite to the contrary, to argue that RIM and Android didn't see any market share gains due to free phone giveaways during the holidays is grasping at straws.

Apple didn't have a good holiday season because the iPhone is now an old design and the competition is just that much better.

The iPhone is still the most desired smartphone on the market. Fact. A lot of my friends/family who don't have one yet don't because it's not on their carrier of choice. Not because they're rushing out to buy Droids or Nexus Ones.

Higher res screens that are sharper, upgradeable storage, app stores, faster processors, more options of formats and types (flips, physical keyboard + touch combos), not to mention more customization (how hard is it to make it so I can put a picture behind my icons Apple ? I could do this on my 2002 phone...).

Newsflash: consumers don't care about these things. It's true! I've yet to hear a single person (except on this forum, which is a microscopic segment of the buying public) say "I would buy an iPhone if only it had a higher res screen and a faster processor and a file browser! Oh, and if only I could customize my wallpaper!"

You're living in a dreamland if you think these things have any measurable impact on sales with the tech-ignorant buying public.

Again, the thing holding many people back from the iPhone (in the U.S.) is AT&T exclusivity, not some tarted up techno-nerd spec sheet. And I'll bet most people wouldn't think your 2002 phone is as awesome as you do.

Oh, and the last time I checked the iPhone had an app store.

Apple better bring some very needed improvements with version 4.0 of the OS and they better have very solid hardware for the 4th gen

Agreed, Apple can't rest on their laurels.

until they become a niche player like they are with Macs.

I'll gladly take that bet.

It's a ridiculous excuse because the iPhone is also being given out free. You ignoring this fact when it has been posted again and again doesn't change it.

Please tell me where I can get one of these free iPhones. My mom would like one.

 

[KnightWRX]

Wow, this going to go around in circles for pages. You're basically arguing that iPhone promotions are good while competitors are just a trick to make it look more popular. You're then arguing that the iPhone, while it's losing market share, is the "most desirable phone on the market", and thus the competition being better doesn't matter, even though the competition just had a much better quarter.

Then you're telling us no one cares about hardware features when everyone on this very forum with a Droid or Nexus One rave about the screen quality each time it's brought up.

Congratulations Laguna, you've just crossed the line into Kool-aid land.

Please tell me where I can get one of these free iPhones. My mom would like one.

Probably the same place I can get my 2 blackberries for the price of 1. (hint, I can't get that promotion because it's a 1 carrier in 1 country thing. Can't you see yet that you insisting on this promotion thing is really starting to show you for the clown you are ?).

 

[LagunaSol]

Wow, this going to go around in circles for pages. You're basically arguing that iPhone promotions are good while competitors are just a trick to make it look more popular.

Odd, I never said anything of the sort. I'm not aware of any iPhone promotions. Apparently we're going in circles because you're inventing arguments for me.

re then arguing that the iPhone, while it's losing market share, is the "most desirable phone on the market", and thus the competition being better doesn't matter, even though the competition just had a much better quarter.

The iPhone is the most desirable phone on the market. And it's losing market share because its competitors are 1) available on more carriers and 2) giving away free phones.

Then you're telling us no one cares about hardware features when everyone on this very forum with a Droid or Nexus One rave about the screen quality each time it's brought up.

Hmm, apparently you missed (chose to miss) my comment that this forum represents "a microscopic segment of the buying public."

Here, let me try it in caps and maybe you'll understand:

THE GENERAL BUYING PUBLIC DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OLED SCREENS OR FILE MENUS/MULTIPLE FILE TYPES.

And if your 2002 phone did everything phones today do, why are you so hip to BB and/or Android?

Congratulations Laguna, you've just crossed the line into Kool-aid land.

Better than living on Bizarro World, where logic obviously is irrelevant.

Probably the same place I can get my 2 blackberries for the price of 1.

PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK WHERE I CAN GET AN IPHONE FREE FOR BUYING ONE (IN THE U.S.). MY MOM WOULD LIKE A FREE IPHONE. THANK YOU.

Oh, and you guys should totally call up Verizon and Sprint and tell them those buy-one-get-one-free deals don't increase sales, because they totally think they do (the idiots).

 

[KnightWRX]

The iPhone is the most desirable phone on the market. And it's losing market share because its competitors are 1) available on more carriers and 2) giving away free phones.

1) The iPhone is now available on 3 carriers in Canada (since November, so very much in time for the holidays) 2) iPhones are being given away free, even moreso than your blackberries on AT&T.

So what's you're 3) in order not to admit that the competition might be edging Apple ?

Your UScentricity is really, really showing now. You have no idea what goes on outside your borders. Even more to the point :

PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK WHERE I CAN GET AN IPHONE FREE FOR BUYING ONE (IN THE U.S.). MY MOM WOULD LIKE A FREE IPHONE. THANK YOU.

PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK WHERE I CAN GET 2 BLACKBERRIES FOR THE PRICE OF 1 (IN CANADA).

Seriously, shouting in bold doesn't mean your point isn't as ludicrous as it was 5 minutes ago.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Odd, I never said anything of the sort. I'm not aware of any iPhone promotions. Apparently we're going in circles because you're inventing arguments for me.


Blah blah blah ***Moving Goal Post**.

LagunaSol. you been moving the goal post the entire time. We point out that Apple has a larger subsidize prices than other phones which = more sales.

We point out that Bogo was limited to only 1 carrier so extra sales are limited. iPhone lower subsidize price is world wide and apple is the one that forces those prices. Not the other way around. Either way more sales for apple.

You were the one that tried to discount the fact that the iPhone lost marketshare because other ran BOGO. YOU were the one who brought that up. Then when we point out the higher subsidized price of the iPhone your counter is Apple makes more money. We point that out that on BOGO the manufacturers makes more money and it starts it over again.

Face the facts. The iPhone has reach a saturation point in the market. Like NOKA and RIM it really not going to gain any more market share. It can only really go on way and that is down.

I fully expect the iPhone, RIM and Nokia to loss marketshare to Android, Palm and Window Mobile 7. Yes WM7 is going to take marketshare away even if it is not that great because there is not much more it can losses so it can really only go up. Android is still climbing and Palm is going to start climbing as it is moving world wide and on more carriers.

Apple growth in yearly sales of the iPhone is going to be limited more by the growth of the smart phone market. Market share do not expect it to increase.

 

[seedster2]

So would you argue that if AT&T were to offer a Buy One iPhone Get One Free offer today that sales wouldn't increase? And if you agree that sales would increase, that market share wouldn't as well? Even worldwide market share? (Because the U.S. is a substantial player in the worldwide electronics market the last time I checked.)

A completely rational argument (read: giving away free phones increases market share) is a "ridiculous excuse" how exactly? And who is the fanboy here really?

You're argument is ridiculous because all devices have been offered for free by various carriers that you choose to ignore. Excluding and choosing a particular promotions to explain global performance is asinine.

I consider you a zealot because you ignore the easily identifiable FREE offers for the iPhone yet highlight BOGO for RIM's success. Others may think you a "Fanboy" for other reasons which I dont care about

Do a BOGOF deal on the iPhone in the U.S. and watch inventory drop to zilch within a week.

That "2nd person" who gets the free phone is typically a spouse or dependent, and more than likely one who wouldn't be getting his/her own smarthphone without the freebie deal. Consumers have proven susceptible to these freebie offers even when a contract extension/monthly fee is involved. "Hey, check out my new phone! I didn't really need it - I liked my old one just fine - but I was eligible for an upgrade and it was FREE!" Happens every..single..day.

It's amazing that you're now prescient and can tell us how the market will definitively respond to apple promotions. Please continue. While we're on it, should iPod Touch sales be disregarded because they are given away in back to school promotions?

I'm hoping you can quickly tell us the March iPad Sales and new Mac Pro forecasts as well. I especially found your sales narration entertaining as well

The iPhone is still the most desired smartphone on the market.

Someone should teach you the difference between a fact and opinion. I have an iPhone and BB, but still desire other handsets more

Please tell me where I can get one of these free iPhones. My mom would like one.

iPhones were offered free with contract in a number of places outside of the U.S like:

Japan
Germany
Spain
United Kingdom
Sweden
Malta

So I guess all those sales should be considered artificial inflation too

What a silly argument you're trying to present. At least BOGO they are selling at half price. These offers are FREE so they should be more dubious in your illogical view. Apple must not care about perceived value in those places

 

[LagunaSol]

*

*

*

Wow, a triple team of irrationality now. Good thing you have Rodimus Prime on your team (LOL!) - good luck making sense of his gibberish.

You guys can throw all kinds of irrelevant bits into the mix (OLED screens, iPhone sales in Malta, the undeniable awesomeness of your 2002 phone) and invent arguments for me that I never made, but the bottom line that you cannot refute (though you try in bizarre ways) is this:

A) 2-for-1 promotions increase sales (otherwise the carriers wouldn't offer them).

+

B) Increased sales means increased market share.

+

C) The holidays provided multiple 2-for-1 deals on multiple BB and Android devices on multiple carriers - the iPhone did not enjoy this type of volume-sales promotions during the same period (there certainly weren't any 2-for-1 iPhone deals in the U.S. - one of the biggest smartphone markets in the world).

=

D) It's not surprising that BB and Android saw a boost in market share over the holiday quarter vs. the iPhone.

I'd be happy to put this into a flowchart if it would make it easier for you to understand.

 

[KnightWRX]

Oh, so now it's multiple carriers offering both BBs and Androids 2 for 1 ?

And irrationality, like :

Free iPhone, 365 days a year = ok
Half off BBs and Androids for couple of weeks = bad

Ok, ok, we get it, you like making up excuses for Apple's failures instead of admitting there might be something that needs fixing on the iPhone.

Keep moving them goalposts Laguna.

 

[LagunaSol]

Oh, so now it's multiple carriers offering both BBs and Androids 2 for 1 ?

Actually, yes. I saw 2 for 1 deals over the holidays on Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint and 50% off deals at AT&T (but not on the iPhone, though I think they ran an iPhone deal on Black Friday).

1, 2, 3, 4 carriers...yeah, I think that qualifies as multiple.

Free iPhone, 365 days a year = ok
Half off BBs and Androids for couple of weeks = bad

Where is this free iPhone deal you keep talking about? I've yet to see such a deal in the U.S. Oh, and I don't see any free iPhones on Rogers' (Canada, right?) site either. Hmmm...

And I'm not talking about the half-off deals specifically (though they obviously boost sales too), I'm talking about the BOGO deals, which certainly have more impact on market share numbers.

Oh, and I never said these deals were "bad" - I said they helped bump up their market share numbers. Again, you're inventing arguments for me.

Ok, ok, we get it, you like making up excuses for Apple's failures instead of admitting there might be something that needs fixing on the iPhone.

Funny, I never talked about Apple's failures, and yes, they do need to fix some things on the iPhone. Again, you like to put words in my mouth. Odd.

Keep moving them goalposts Laguna.

I don't think that means what you think it means because you keep doing it while accusing me of the same (oh, and quoting a line from Rodimus Prime is almost never a good idea).

My argument about BOGO and its impact on market share has been consistent throughout this thread. It's you who keeps interjecting other non-related trivia.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Oh, so now it's multiple carriers offering both BBs and Androids 2 for 1 ?

And irrationality, like :

Free iPhone, 365 days a year = ok
Half off BBs and Androids for couple of weeks = bad

Ok, ok, we get it, you like making up excuses for Apple's failures instead of admitting there might be something that needs fixing on the iPhone.

Keep moving them goalposts Laguna.

I think we have determined that Laguna is going to spin what ever crap he can to make Apple look better. Already showed him that the 2 for 1 deals on smart phones limited to only verizon. Blackberry on AT&T never got 50% off.

He is arguing the only reason they gain market share is 2 for 1 deals but will not accept the fact that year round the iPhone got larger subsided cost that everyone else which = more sales. NOOO to him iPhone gets all its sells because it is the iPhone and prices has nothing to do with it.

Hell you noticed how he can not understand that the world market for cell phones is a lot bigger than the US. US is pretty small fries when it comes to cell phones. China, and EU are both larger markets than the US.......

Yet that is his only argument. We try to point out that out and he screams it is wrong. Way I see it when it is all said and done it all comes out in the wash when you look at world wide numbers.

 

[LagunaSol]

I think we have determined that Laguna is going to spin what ever crap he can to make Apple look better. Already showed him that the 2 for 1 deals on smart phones limited to only verizon. Blackberry on AT&T never got 50% off.

Um, wrong again. My brother got a BOGO smartphone deal on Sprint. I know T-Mobile was also running BOGO smartphone deals during the holidays.

Looks like the only one "spinning crap" here is...you.

He is arguing the only reason they gain market share is 2 for 1 deals but will not accept the fact that year round the iPhone got larger subsided cost that everyone else which = more sales. NOOO to him iPhone gets all its sells because it is the iPhone and prices has nothing to do with it.

I have no idea what any of that means. English please?

You keep yammering about subsidized costs, but that means nothing to the consumer. Nothing. iPhone: $199. Nexus One: $199. BlackBerry Storm 2: $179. HTC Touch Pro 2: $199. Droid: $199. Palm Pre: $149.

Your implication is that Apple sells more phones via an artificially low price, yet the iPhone price is the same or higher than its competitors. And with AT&T's absurd rates (equal to Verizon but higher than Sprint and T-Mobile), the iPhone has an even tougher sale to make.

Though I've become accustomed to you not making any sense, so carry on.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I have no idea what any of that means. English please?

You keep yammering about subsidized costs, but that means nothing to the consumer. Nothing. iPhone: $199. Nexus One: $199. BlackBerry Storm 2: $179. HTC Touch Pro 2: $199. Droid: $199. Palm Pre: $149.

Your implication is that Apple sells more phones via an artificially low price, yet the iPhone price is the same or higher than its competitors. And with AT&T's absurd rates (equal to Verizon but higher than Sprint and T-Mobile), the iPhone has an even tougher sale to make.

Though I've become accustomed to you not making any sense, so carry on.

Pulling the numbers from AT&T own site the iPhone gets a $400 subsidy.

Blackberries and other smart phones get a $250 subsidy. That seems quite a bit larger don't you think.

I think it is sad that you try to discredit the fact that the iPhone lost a lot of marketshare 4Q and blame it completely on BOGOs limited to the US.

You do know that the limiting yourself only to the US in cell phone market is kind of bad.

Face it the facts, the iPhone lost a lot of marketshare because it has reach is saturation point. RIM did not gain any market share. They stayed about the same. The iPhone mostly bleed marketshare to android and Palm.

 

[LagunaSol]

Pulling the numbers from AT&T own site the iPhone gets a $400 subsidy.

Blackberries and other smart phones get a $250 subsidy. That seems quite a bit larger don't you think.

What the heck does the amount of subsidy mean to the consumer when the consumer's price is the same? Nothing. It means nothing.

I think it is sad that you try to discredit the fact that the iPhone lost a lot of marketshare 4Q and blame it completely on BOGOs limited to the US.

Who said I blamed it "completely" on BOGOs? I sure didn't. I'm sure BOGOs were a factor - and probably a significant one. Another factor (and even more significant) is Apple's limited carriers.

Face it the facts, the iPhone lost a lot of marketshare because it has reach is saturation point.

Uh huh. The iPhone has reached its saturation point. Right.

I think you made this same point many months ago, yet Apple continues to sell iPhones. Amazing how that happens.

Your logic is as good as your spelling and grammar.

Though I must assume English isn't your native language (I hope?).

 

[NT1440]

Can someone point me to this iPhone 2 for 1 deal? Or better yet the free iPhone deal? Thanks.

 

[mrochester]

What the heck does the amount of subsidy mean to the consumer when the consumer's price is the same? Nothing. It means nothing.

Nothing, but it does mean the market share numbers are being 'artificially inflated' if the iPhone is being offered on a better deal than the other products by being subsidised more heavily. Maybe we should discount those figures from the equation too?