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BornAgainMac said:
All phones today remind me of the MP3 players before the iPod. A ton of improvement is overdue.

I strongly agree.

After just going through the "buy a new cell phone" experience and dealing with poorly designed products and the scumbags at the carrier stores and their Machiavellian deals and terms, I think the market is ripe for Apple to enter and make a huge dent.

I think the problem before was the carriers. But now Apple has good relationships with Cingular and Orange, the environment has changed.

I think the cell phone market is a smart next move for Apple. Here's why:

1. It's an enormous market.

2. The products that exist today are poorly designed (in general)

3. The products today are overly complex and hide their functionality

4. MS plans on attacking the iPod via the phone. This could be some basic risk mitigation.

5. A re-think of what is possible with a phone is entirely possible and enables Apple to once again change the game with a "why didn't we think of that" moment." Carriers dictate too much functionality to handset manufacturers, and the manufacturers don't control the OS. But by Apple having the power to look at the picture holistically, I think we will see some exciting innovations.

I for one think Apple can cause a major re-birth of the mobile phone market, and, while I would like something now, I am excited to read Apple is taking their time and re-thinking everything.
 
mugwump said:
Apple is absolutely missing out on the mobile marketplace -- the future of computing for many emerging markets.

Apple Mobile OS -- there's already Windows, Linux and Palm, with Palm no longer since it was snapped up by a Japanese firm.

The palm treos are everywhere, the stock is shooting through the roof, and Apple could've been there with any bit of vision. Sheesh, Jobs had to be forced into the mp3 market, but apparently all he saw were PDA's and never realized the phones were getting smarter.

Mobile darwin, iCal, Mail, iChat, Safari, Pages, iTunes -- it's all there and ready for a mobile OS -- where is apple?

It's not about phones, it about mobile computing -- multitasking, multithreaded with a low voltage Intel core dual, mobile spotlight searching.

WHERE IS APPLE FOR MOBILE COMPUTING?

My treo does everything, but is all single tasking with hideous searching. Otherwise, it's a laptop replacement -- the same way the first powerbooks were desktop replacements, though no one realized it for quite some time.
If the Macrumours moderators were smart, you would be promoted from "newbie" to "demi-god" based on this post alone.

William Henry Gates III knows that mobile computing is the next big thing, and has been pushing MS for years to be the lead player in this space.

Today, while at work, I saw a CNN story about a special on TV tonight. Looked very interesting, so I wanted to make sure that my TiVo caught it (I have to go into the city tonight for a business dinner, so I couldn't do it after I got home (even if I remembered)).

I could have gone to TiVo's central website to program my home TiVo to grab it (my TiVo's on the home 802.11 LAN and regularly phones home to the TiVo servers for instructions) - but no need.

I have a Slingbox (http://www.slingmedia.com) connected to the TiVo, so I opened my cellphone (Samsung i730 from Verizon with 700 Kbps EVDO internet connection) and connected directly to the Slingbox. A couple of clicks here and there, and I added tonight's show to the TiVo "grab" list.

On the way, however, it happened that the TiVo was tuned to the Weather Channel. The few seconds of Weather Channel that I saw when the phone connected showed a dark band of thunderstorms moving into the area.

After telling TiVo to record the special, I went back to the weather channel. Looked like bad news, big rainstorm moving in during the evening commute.

That was a pretty ugly prospect, so I changed my plans to take Caltrain into the city (if you live in the Bay Area, "the city" is San Francisco proper - and if you live in Silicon Valley, going into "the city" during an evening commute thunderstorm is not a pleasant thought). Much better to take the commuter rail (Caltrain) into the city.

But I didn't know today's Caltrain schedule, so I opened Internet Explorer on my phone, and typed in the Caltrain URL.

A few clicks on the touch screen, and I saw that the northbound "bullet" trains were at 4:58, 5:37, and 5:58. The 5:37 would be perfect. (I mentally kicked myself for not having the current PocketPC schedule already on the phone.)
___________________________

This is how *I* used Windows Mobile on my cellphone *today*.

Apple is *nowhere* on the exploding growth of connected devices. Nowhere. The train left the station....
 
The future of Apple depends on the iPhone

There is no question in my mind that the iPhone is the most important product Apple can address now.

If Apple delays the iPhone and Windoze comes up with a reasonably good wPhone, Apple will never capture the "smart device we all will carry."

The Treo with its 25,000 programs is the main threat. Cheap to buy, PalmOne can go either way.

The Palm OS is buggy, but nice and simple. A few Mac OSX "screens" make one feel at home.
 
waveman216 said:
Who cares?

Cell phones have been around for a while now and unless Apple can figure out some "revolutionary" new way for us to use the PHONE, not play music on it cause I doubt most people want to do that, than honestly, who gives a crap?

I agree, who the hell cares about apple phone. But, hold on, we have seen quite a surge with Windows based phones and they are quite handy. If apple has an idea to come out with a mac based phone, it will surely be a hot gadget in the market. We know how apple sells the idea of "user friendly".

One thing is sure...it will be white with "phone isight camera", "itunes" on it...😀
 
wPhone is here already

mgauss said:
If Apple delays the iPhone and Windoze comes up with a reasonably good wPhone, Apple will never capture the "smart device we all will carry."
The wPhone is here today. Yahoo! for "Windows Mobile 5"...

(and look at my post a few higher)
 
Macrumors said:
ThinkSecret reports that Apple's cell phone project has been placed on hold due to "significant technical hurdles" in developing the product.

It's funny. I have the excact same problem with my energy-creating perpetual motion machine.😱
 
mgauss said:
There is no question in my mind that the iPhone is the most important product Apple can address now.

If Apple delays the iPhone and Windoze comes up with a reasonably good wPhone, Apple will never capture the "smart device we all will carry."

The Treo with its 25,000 programs is the main threat. Cheap to buy, PalmOne can go either way.

The Palm OS is buggy, but nice and simple. A few Mac OSX "screens" make one feel at home.

Yeah, this is my thinking too. I'm really surprised by the number of people who either don't think an iPhone is bad idea or don't think it to be interesting. The first phone that is able to provide the same features and simplicity as an iPod will clean up the phone market, plus take a lot of the MP3 player market. Pretty much everyone has a mobile phone these days and would like MP3 player functions but it's a pain to have to carry and manage multiple devices. If Apple is able to produce a phone that works as well for playing music as an iPod, plays nicely with OS X and provides good qualities as a phone then I would absolutely buy one rather than those produced by the competition.

"...One ring to rule them all..."
 
AidenShaw said:
If the Macrumours moderators were smart, you would be promoted from "newbie" to "demi-god" based on this post alone.

William Henry Gates III knows that mobile computing is the next big thing, and has been pushing MS for years to be the lead player in this space.

Today, while at work, I saw a CNN story about a special on TV tonight. Looked very interesting, so I wanted to make sure that my TiVo caught it (I have to go into the city tonight for a business dinner, so I couldn't do it after I got home (even if I remembered)).

I could have gone to TiVo's central website to program my home TiVo to grab it (my TiVo's on the home 802.11 LAN and regularly phones home to the TiVo servers for instructions) - but no need.

I have a Slingbox (http://www.slingmedia.com) connected to the TiVo, so I opened my cellphone (Samsung i730 from Verizon with 700 Kbps EVDO internet connection) and connected directly to the Slingbox. A couple of clicks here and there, and I added tonight's show to the TiVo "grab" list.

On the way, however, it happened that the TiVo was tuned to the Weather Channel. The few seconds of Weather Channel that I saw when the phone connected showed a dark band of thunderstorms moving into the area.

After telling TiVo to record the special, I went back to the weather channel. Looked like bad news, big rainstorm moving in during the evening commute.

That was a pretty ugly prospect, so I changed my plans to take Caltrain into the city (if you live in the Bay Area, "the city" is San Francisco proper - and if you live in Silicon Valley, going into "the city" during an evening commute thunderstorm is not a pleasant thought). Much better to take the commuter rail (Caltrain) into the city.

But I didn't know today's Caltrain schedule, so I opened Internet Explorer on my phone, and typed in the Caltrain URL.

A few clicks on the touch screen, and I saw that the northbound "bullet" trains were at 4:58, 5:37, and 5:58. The 5:37 would be perfect. (I mentally kicked myself for not having the current PocketPC schedule already on the phone.)
___________________________

This is how *I* used Windows Mobile on my cellphone *today*.

Apple is *nowhere* on the exploding growth of connected devices. Nowhere. The train left the station....

As usual, William Gates, III gets a little help from his friend Aiden Shaw...

No, the situation is not as obvious as you perceive; in fact, the mobile market is NOT up for grabs as some of you may imply.

I am truly happy that Apple did not start this crazy iPhone adventure, and I am sure they have more than a thousand reasons not to.

1) In terms of devices, the mobile market is clearly shared by a few makers; it's a sort of oligopoly between Nokia, Motorola, Samsung and Siemens. The rest is the rest, catching scraps on the floor of a saturated scenario. It's a similar situation as with the digital download market. Apple totally dominates, and 2 or 3 niche players barely make money with the remaining 25% of the market.

2) Apple has NO expertise in mobile phone industry, and as TS showed, it would again delegate "powers" to another maker/designer. This means that, as with the ROKR/STNKR, Apple would have limited say in the final delivery of the product. The content would be the key; but honestly, few people care about OS-driven features that have been there for YEARS, such as calendars, phone book, syncing, mp3 and games. You want something else? Buy a laptop.

As for Treo or Blackberry supporters, I can only loathe those little things full of buttons and superfluous capabilities. Sure, Treos seems to be doing fine in some markets, but that doesn't mean Palm is in wonderful shape...they have a proportionally paltry revenue, trading today at around 22 and having a higher P/E ratio than Apple.

People need simplicity, and Apple IS about simplicity. However, the mobile market ALREADY has its simple models and Apple would add nothing to that, apart from a nice white design by Ive.

3) Mr. Shaw then gives us a long, wonderful display of how to use a complicated device; surely for tech-savvy people like him, Windows Mobile seems like a good proposition. But he seemingly forgets that MUCH simpler alternatives exist. His 3 actions were:

a) I wanna record a show;
b) I check the weather;
c) I need to see the train schedule.

on a), I could have done it from my computer at work; on b) I usually check weather right after entering and before leaving office; on c), I can send a SMS to SBB (the train company) in Switzerland, and get all the next schedules for my intended destinations.

Now tell me, which alternative is cheaper...1 quick browse for free PLUS one SMS, or a lengthy small-screen Internet session on the mobile phone?

4) Handheld makers fight a sorry battle, as shipments fell almost 20% in 2005; fortunately, Apple doesn't make these mistakes again...they ONLY enter a market when they KNOW they will make clear money. And the handheld market is far from being attractive right now, no matter how enthusiastic savvy users might look.

5) Those that advocate Apple's entry into this market have no clue about the crazy mish-mash of network operators, incumbents and content providers. You may say that Apple's difficulties in getting music and videos for iTunes can be multiplied by 100 in the mobile market. Where would they make money if content, interconnection fees and exclusive deals make revenue go elsewhere? No, iPhone fans don't answer that.

I am HAPPY that Apple is not joining this crazy loss-making war. Keep making Macs and iPods...it's a much safer bet.
 
fatfish said:
I don't think many could see the reason for an ipod back in 2001. I'd buy an iphone simply because it would integrate seemlessly with ical, address book etc. unlike many of the phones out there now that are supposed to.

It would be cool and simple to use as well, the same factors that sell the ipod.

i agree. nothing syncs perfectly and i'm sure an "iPhone" would..

and to back up the first paragraph there, go see the legendary thread 500
 
Lawyer: Just because you don't see any benefit to mobile computing doesn't mean that the rocket ship hasn't already launched, fueled by Windows Mobile and Linux.

Who gives a flip about mobile networks? In the US, Virgin simply leases network activity from Sprint and does quite well with it.

Where are the profits for Apple? Why in the hardware sales to it's ever expanding and loyal customer base. Sure it's hard to get the world to change from Microsoft OS to "something different", but it's a heck of a lot easier to get them to do so with a mobile X phone.

You know, they could leverage the billions of net revenues they are raking in with iPod sales to tackle the mobile computing market. Surely it's easier than music, video, and movie worldwide distribution.
 
If I remember correctly, the iPod was the first product in a line of products for digital lifestyle. Maybe the iPhone will just be the second step. I don't think Apple will try to push all mobile devices around in an iPod, but you never now.
What I do find interesting is that Apple will begin from the ground. Does this mean they won't just take an existing cellphone and Appleing it or does this mean they will come up with something unseen in cellphone history before and shake the entire market like they did with the iPod?
 
Nokia has predicted that the mp3 players will fade away in a few years because of everyone buying mobile phones with music players. A few years ago Nokia predicted that nobody will soon buy cameras any moore, since every phone has one. And indeed Agfa an Konica Minolta have reported that they will withdraw from the camera markets.

It may be that Nokia is wrong and the mp3 players are here to stay, but if they are right it would be quite stupid from Apple to not enter the mobile markets.
 
BRLawyer said:
4) Handheld makers fight a sorry battle, as shipments fell almost 20% in 2005; fortunately, Apple doesn't make these mistakes again...they ONLY enter a market when they KNOW they will make clear money. And the handheld market is far from being attractive right now, no matter how enthusiastic savvy users might look.

I am not sure I would be investing in a company ONLY entered markets when they KNEW that they were going to make money. To be more precise ex-ante knowledge and not the ex-post variety...

If Apple really has adopted the strategy of only launching the 'sure thing', their P/E is way to high (and I never would have had the opportunity of owning an Apple II).

I think the point is to come up with a product/service offering that 'could' change the market (to Apple's advantage). Seems to me that if Apple does not innovate in the 'mobile computing/communications' market somebody else will. That could be bad news for portables and iPods (of the audio, video, or whatever variety).
 
iPhone still in distant future?

What ever the situation is with Apples future entry in the mobile market, I'd be happy to wait it out. I think as someone has already mentioned that it would be far better to create a superior product rather than one thats inferior. Also the mobile phone market has no brand or provider loyalty, and this is true for me as I know that I have been disatisfied with not only my mobile phone device but also the provider for a multitude of reasons. If Apple can deliver a superior product with a far superior service/services then not only will I very quickly switch but so will others. This new product could tie in nicely with iLife, iCal as well as mobile versions of iTunes and not least pages for on the go document editing/creation. Right now there is no product nor a service provider that does this or could do this as seamlessly as Apple.🙂

Regards
 
supermacdesign said:
I just don't see any reason Apple needs to produce a phone. How does this sell more iMacs or Computers. Can anyone think of a reason?

Probably the fact that the mobile market is relatively huge, even compared to that of the iPod. And everyone has a problem with their mobile, regardless of brand - due to overcomplication and poor design. In my mind, it would seem a perfect time for Apple to make some gorgeous hardware and most importantly a serously easy to use OS that syncs well with both Macs and PCs. There is no competition for simplicity, and I think Apple could do well at it.
 
A different agenda

I am not commenting on whether there is, should be or when there will be an iPhone.. but in my opinion what an "analyst" (at a bank) predicts is usually driven by a different agenda.

While there are many rumour sites which talk about new products - an analyst is under some what pressure to be "positive" and emphasise the up side of many products and companies.

For example, it is common knowledge that there are usually many more buy recommendations than sell - even though recently they have split the roles of research from the actual banks.
 
It will be back...

Hey guys,

I can't wait until the "iPhone", because trust me it's gunna be amazing! I mean how can it not be? I was giving it some thought and I am not sure it is such a bad idea as some people say.

I mean lets just go through it logically. Jobs is definatly ready for it, I am sure he sees that the market has matured to the point that he would feel comfortable entering it. I say this because Apple is never really first into the market, Jobs always waits until the market for a particualr product matures and consumers are really ready to hop on. I mean look at the iPod, Archos had a hard drive based player for years before and what about Intel? Jobs gave that market plenty of time to mature before he entered it. So right now I think Jobs is really just waiting right now.

What is he waiting for? Well I suspect that Apple has until now built it's prototypes on current GSM networks. I point to the current iTunes phone for Cingular's GSM network and the seemingly close relationship Apple has with Cingular. I mean it would seem most logical that Apple's MVNO would be based on a network from Cingular which would mean their phone would have to be GSM.

Now if you look at these two ideas you get the feel that something isn't right. First off the cell phone market it overlly matured, I mean most average people basically want the Motorolla RAZR becuase it looks cool and pay little attention to their phone. So that's it right there, the average person has a cell phone so why would Apple enter the market? Well I submit that they are not going to enter the cell phone market under present technologies, I think they have delayed this product to stop and redesign for a phone that will handel 3G and GSM standards.

I mean look at the market for 3G phones, in the comming months providers will complete rollouts of 3G networks. This will be followed by releases of those cool 3G phones like the ones in Norway and South Korea that we all keep hearing about. So as people start seeing these new phones and the amazing new services they provide the market will grow and mature, then Jobs with his amazing timing will at MacWorld or the WWDC will unvail this amazing new phone.

So what will this phone look like?

I though about Apple, the iPod and what are wrong with traditional phones and what Apple might release...

First off support for 3G and GSM networks, I mean you can't leave it up to the cell providers to provide complete coverage.

Secondly bluetooth and airport extreme (wifi), I see this as the way it will fit into Jobs idea of the digital home. You use bluetooth to interface with your mac(ie. iLife [iTunes, iPhoto, FrontRow] controller) and wifi to allow for applications they may need more bandwith then the traditional cell network can provide. I see some sort of collaberation app coming up around it or maybe further intergration into the digital home. The bluetooth is also a neccesity to support all those cool bluetooth headsets.

Now lets look at hardware... I see flash memory any where from 512 MB to 2 GB. Plenetly of room for you to carry your music with you, weither your not that interested in it (512 MB) or really like the idea (2 GB). I also see a really amazing large lcd screen to sort of fix the convention of tiny cell phone screens. Most definatly a camera, because well duh!

So the "iPhone" I imagine will come with phone versions of the iChat (AV?), iTunes, iPhoto, Safari, Mail and iCal. I am not sure about iChat AV, I think Apple could do something really cool if they took the camera phone to the next level by allowing people to video conferance from their camera phone. I was also thinking if they included a high qualilty microphone they could include a Garageband port for those of us who are prone to "spontanous creation".

Well I have to head to class now, so I have to cut my rambling short, tell me what you guys think.

-Chris
 
BRLawyer said:
As usual, William Gates, III gets a little help from his friend Aiden Shaw...
And Mr. Lawyer chooses to start his post with an oblique attack against the author....


BRLawyer said:
3) Mr. Shaw then gives us a long, wonderful display of how to use a complicated device; surely for tech-savvy people like him, Windows Mobile seems like a good proposition.
Running Internet Explorer on my Windows phone is no more complicated that running IE on my desktop. Type in a URL, click Go. Click on links, etc.

Running SlingPlayer on my Windows phone is likewise almost identical to running it on my desktop.

Since my phone runs Windows, using the applications on the phone is quite similar to using them at the desktop. My training on the "complicated" device on the desktop applies to the phone.

BRLawyer said:
on a), I could have done it from my computer at work; on b) I usually check weather right after entering and before leaving office; on c), I can send a SMS to SBB (the train company) in Switzerland, and get all the next schedules for my intended destinations.
Had I been at my desk, I could have used my desktop.

Had I been at a hot spot, I could have used my WiFi laptop.

Since I almost always carry the phone, I could do it from anywhere.

BRLawyer said:
Now tell me, which alternative is cheaper...1 quick browse for free PLUS one SMS, or a lengthy small-screen Internet session on the mobile phone?
I pay about $20/month for unlimited data (at 700Kbps speed) on the phone - which is a typical charge for a home internet connection that's required for your "free browse".

Lengthy, hardly. Very convenient is a better description. For a weather check, I'll use the phone and be done in the amount of time that it would take to get my laptop out of the bag and connect to the hotspot. (And if I'm at Starbucks or Migros, I can do it while standing in line.)

And, of course, I can watch video and listen to music on the phone - either locally (multi-GB) or streaming.

Convenience. One device, not several. Leave the laptop at home more often.
 
thejadedmonkey said:
You guys, tomorrow's the big day.

All we have so far are rumors about what's not coming out.

What gives?

No kidding. I want rumors about the anniversary presents. Where are those hoax people now? At least some hoaxes to entertain me. Please? I might be nicer on them this time around....

Seriously. The silence is creepy...like Apple is being really careful...new iPod seems likely with such silence? Or are they not giving such a leak a chance?

26 hours or so left?

I'm in Japan. If they announce a new product on 4/1 at 10:00 AM (or whenever) California time, we in Japan are some 16 hours ahead (I think), or 2:00 AM of 4/2. If I go to the Apple store at 10:00 AM of 4/2, will they have the new products (assuming they announce them on said time in US)? I know Jobs often says you can pick it up in the stores today sort of thing.
 
Apple is not the magic bullet for all your personal problems. Apple that. Apple this. Leave them alone to make some good computers and that's all. Thanks.
 
just curious if anyone here has a Razr through verizon? Does it sync with isync (via bluetooth or even USB)?
 
supermacdesign said:
I just don't see any reason Apple needs to produce a phone. How does this sell more iMacs or Computers. Can anyone think of a reason?

One could say the same about the iPod but since they're approaching doubling their market share since the iPod came out...

Brand name recognition and marketing. I like my iPhone. Wait, they make a computer too? And it runs windows? 🙂
 
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