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The chip was released five months ago. It's hardly old. It's still very fast.
When I buy Apple products, I expect the very best and fastest hardware possible. The 5 months has already "eaten" into my expected longevity life. I buy Macs because I can use them for YEARS and still get fast performance, otherwise I can just buy a Windows PC that will only last 3~4 years. Therefore M1 is already a step back for the new iMac
 
Now, granted, there are many use cases where 16GB won't be enough ... but these machines are not marketed to high end professionals that have specific requirements that exceed their physical constraints. Instead, these boxes are explicitly intended as low powered entry-level machines. Yes, I will get an M2 16" MBP with significantly more RAM (I like to run multiple VMs for other tasks, for example, and that eats RAM) when they're available, but for my typical workflow, I haven't been handicapped at all by this M1.
Your macbook has the word pro in it's name, but that 13 pro is clearly a stopgap until the 14 comes, and I expect it to be phased out. On the other hand, this iMac is a whole new design here to stay for a decade(?). Btw what is a high end professional?

The problem is about a covert price increase when their costs went down. With Intel one could buy any combination of strong cpu/lots of memory. Now with this m1 imac, if you need more memory only, you have to pay up for an iMac with not just a faster chip but a bigger screen. Paying up and "enduring" a faster chip is one thing, but having to use a 30 or even 32 display all day just to have more memory.. ridiculous. And I agree that the sheer performance of m1 is enough for a lot of things, yet you still call those entry-level. M1 is at least upper-middle level, but intentionally handicapped.
 
When I buy Apple products, I expect the very best and fastest hardware possible. The 5 months has already "eaten" into my expected longevity life. I buy Macs because I can use them for YEARS and still get fast performance, otherwise I can just buy a Windows PC that will only last 3~4 years. Therefore M1 is already a step back for the new iMac

it’s the fastest mac in the world, and it’s a step back?

what?
 
When I buy Apple products, I expect the very best and fastest hardware possible. The 5 months has already "eaten" into my expected longevity life. I buy Macs because I can use them for YEARS and still get fast performance, otherwise I can just buy a Windows PC that will only last 3~4 years. Therefore M1 is already a step back for the new iMac
Let me help talk you down off the ledge.

Nobody is writing any applications that are going to suddenly usurp your shiny new M1 in the next few years. It'll be okay, I promise. Use it, enjoy it, and make something gobsmackingly cool with it. And then sell that something and use the money to buy an M7 like that guy from the future. What a hell of a deal, I'm kicking myself for missing that sweet sweet opportunity!
 
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You DO realize that 80 percent of professionals have done their work in the past with Intel-based mobile systems, right? ALL configurations of which pale in comparison to Apple’s M1. So, to indicate that a more performant variant of the SAME processor architecture will suddenly NOT be sufficient for these same professionals is interesting… potentially humorous.
I have no doubts that a lot of professionals have done their work in the past with Intel-based mobile systems.

That said, if you look around, you will find plenty of professional customers frustrated by the limitations of the M1 based Macs. These limitations are not going away in the next iteration of low end Macs, simply because people that need a nice family computer or students that need a reliable laptop for college don't care about such limitations.

Apple will instead address those limitations with a different SOC which will be able to support more than one external monitor at once, up to 64GB of RAM, high-end discrete (or discrete-like performance) GPUs and so on. The jump in performance needs to be massive. At least 2x CPU performance and at least 3-4x on the GPU side.

Also, by your logic of "80 percent of professionals have done their work in the past on such and such", even high-end Intel Mac workstations shouldn't have existed at all.
 
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Untrue the i9 beats the M1 in multiple threaded apps which a lot of apps are now multi threaded applications, once the programmers figured out to program in this environment 15 years ago.
I literally indicated M1 wins some and i9 wins some. Which means i9 wins some. How is that untrue? :)
 
I have no doubts that a lot of professionals have done their work in the past with Intel-based mobile systems.

That said, if you look around, you will find plenty of professional customers frustrated by the limitations of the M1 based Macs. These limitations are not going away in the next iteration of low end Macs, simply because people that need a nice family computer or students that need a reliable laptop for college don't care about such limitations.

Apple will instead address those limitations with a different SOC which will be able to support more than one external monitor at once, up to 64GB of RAM, high-end discrete (or discrete-like performance) GPUs and so on. The jump in performance needs to be massive. At least 2x CPU performance and at least 3-4x on the GPU side.

Also, by your logic of "80 percent of professionals have done their work in the past on such and such", even high-end Intel Mac workstations shouldn't have existed at all.

Who is it who says that the jump in CPU performance necessary is 2x?
 
Why would you want a laptop chip in your iMac? I want a desktop-class M2 in my iMac. I also want it bigger than 27".
Hasn't Apple made it clear the M family processors are not defined as mobile vs desktop because of reduced power consumption? So you have the M1 in MacBook Air. 13" MacBook Pro, and 24" iMac. Even latest iPad Pro. Time to rethink the comparisons to Intel and what they label the proper usage for Apple Silicon IMHO. :)
 
Who is it who says that the jump in CPU performance necessary is 2x?
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How do you know that M2 isn’t the smaller brother of M1, optimized for cost and low energy consumption and sacrificing a tad performance for it? 😈😉
If the M2 is akin to the A15 its still 5nm process , but enhanced, bigger size, more transistors, with improved CPU performance & Graphics performance though more cores. All things one would utilize in performance based products like the 30/32" iMacs or 16" MacBook Pro laptops. :cool:
 
Your macbook has the word pro in it's name, but that 13 pro is clearly a stopgap until the 14 comes, and I expect it to be phased out.

Perhaps. My guess is that the 14" will offer other performance benefits over the 13" and will carry a higher price tag. Maybe the 13" MBP stays, maybe it doesn't. Doesn't really matter either way. It's a great machine and anyone that gets one, understanding the RAM, IO, etc, will be quite happy with it. I've been. And even if they get rid of the 13" when the 14" comes out ... so what? The 13" MBPs out there won't just suddenly vaporize. They'll continue to be the responsive, performant machines they are today.

We've all learned to ignore the 'Pro' in the name. It really just means 'more features or performance than the not-Pro'. It's subjective at best and beyond being 'better' than the non-Pro, doesn't offer any objective promises. Even my mother-in-law doesn't care if the name carries the 'Pro' moniker, she just wants to know if a machine can do what she needs, and what the benefits are of moving up or down the tiers.

On the other hand, this iMac is a whole new design here to stay for a decade(?).

Are we talking about performance/user experience? Or industrial design? I'm not sure how this relates.

Btw what is a high end professional?

Apologies for the ambiguous terminology. I used that term to indicate people whose work is done primarily on their computer, and that the demands placed on that computer are atypical (high end) when compared to the average computer user. It's not meant as a comparative judgment between people of different careers; the context is strictly around the performance demands and capabilities of the computer required to engage in professional activity.

The problem is about a covert price increase when their costs went down.

Oh. I'm not familiar with Apple's costs on these different machines. I wasn't aware that information had been published. Can I get a link to that?

In any event, it doesn't matter. For entry level machines, they provide more than enough functionality and intel-crushing performance than one could've possibly asked for on this first pass, and the prices are actually quite low when compared to the 'competition' (such as it is) out there. Cost to the consumer certainly went down. If the cost to Apple also went down, that's a win-win.

With Intel one could buy any combination of strong cpu/lots of memory. Now with this m1 imac, if you need more memory only, you have to pay up for an iMac with not just a faster chip but a bigger screen. Paying up and "enduring" a faster chip is one thing, but having to use a 30 or even 32 display all day just to have more memory.. ridiculous.

Please link me this product line you're talking about. I haven't been able to find it.

And, yes. When everything was its own discrete chipset, running communications/data across multiple BUSes to get anything done, flexibility was built into the process. And we ended up with the many-years-stagnant, throttle-inducing flamethrower meltdown CPU offerings from Intel.

It remains to be seen what sorts of options we'll have when we get into the newer products.

And I agree that the sheer performance of m1 is enough for a lot of things, yet you still call those entry-level. M1 is at least upper-middle level, but intentionally handicapped.

It's Apple's designation. They specifically refer to the M1 as the low power option in their press releases. They also replaced only the lowest end machines in their product line up with the M1 variants. All the mid to high end Intel options are still there, yet to be replaced. By definition, this categorizes the current M1 offers as entry level.

Just because the 'low', 'mid', 'high' options Apple Silicon SOC bring to the table will completely re-adjust what consumers expect from personal computers moving forward ... just because the 'low' M1 competes directly, and favorably with top of the line i9 options out there, doesn't require we call it a high end or even mid range option. That's an arbitrary comparison to Intel, which isn't meaningful to Apple or fair to its consumers.

When all is said and done, there will be multiple tiers of performance from Apple's SOC machines. The least expensive of these will be the entry level machines, and it looks like, for the foreseeable future, those entry level machines will cleanly outperform anything else in their class, or even a class or two above them. That just means the upcoming mid and high end machines will set the bar that much higher, for everyone.

This is a good thing. It will set fire to the toes of other chip manufacturers.
 
So people who saturate 18 cores, is your point? Ok.
Some professionals want/need the best multicore performance they can get. It's not hard to saturate even 32 cores in many professional workflows.

If Apple released a top of the line iMac in 2021 that didn't soundly beat the top end Intel iMac Pro from 2017 in every metric, especially in multicore performance, then the Apple Silicon endeavor could be rightly called a fiasco from the professionals that want the fastest Mac they can get.
 
Some professionals want/need the best multicore performance they can get. It's not hard to saturate even 32 cores in many professional workflows.

If Apple released a top of the line iMac in 2021 that didn't soundly beat the top end Intel iMac Pro from 2017 in every metric, especially in multicore performance, then the Apple Silicon endeavor could be rightly called a fiasco from the professionals that want the fastest Mac they can get.

I said “ok.”
 
What's frightening is Apple how easily manipulates people. They are making a cheaper cpu what was originally in the Air, put it in the iMac in place of a more expensive one, took away half the ports in the cheapest model, and you are hapilly paying the same price. But whatever, keep buying it, maybe they'll finally raise dividends.
Huh? In the case of the MacBook Air they gave us a computer with the same features, but with the power of high end MacBook Pros for the same cost.
 
Anything less than an i9 is actually a chip with some form of defect in it.
Is this accurate? When I was looking this up last year, the actual size of the i3 was actually smaller than the i9 which would mean they’re physically different (I think it was looking at how many can fit on a wafer).

I figured the “success rate” for Apple/TSMC may be higher because the end customer is a part of the process and has “baked-in” success. If TSMC has a requirement to produce 2.3GHz chips, then it doesn’t matter if some actually clock much higher. If a chip clocks at least that high and doesn’t have any other defects, then that’s almost that entire wafer going to an already defined use. And, even if they DO have defects, they can accept certain ones (if one GPU is dead) which again lowers what’s “acceptable” while raising the yield as a whole.
 
My biggest frustration with MacOS and iPadOS is Safari.
If at the very least they would give the option to put the tabs at the very top of the window and let each tab have its own address and search bar it would be a huge improvement. I never thought I would say this but Edge may be the best browser for Mac.
 
Huh? In the case of the MacBook Air they gave us a computer with the same features, but with the power of high end MacBook Pros for the same cost.
It’s going to be a LOOONG time before people are able to “get” this. Years of desktops having higher performance and having more CPU features than laptops have been burned into their brains. Such that, if you take a future Mac High Performance processor in a future Mac Laptop and it provides simliar raw compute, it won’t be an amazing feat that Apple/TSMC was able to do this, it’ll be because they MUST be putting laptop processors in the desktop :)

In reality, it doesn’t matter if that’s what they’re doing! Wanna run FCP the fastest you possibly can without spending $6,000+ dollars? Then, today, you’re going to be using one of those laptop processors :D
 
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