Apple's Mac Sales Drop in Q4 2018 Amid Worldwide PC Shipment Decline

[Baymowe335]

Market share and market volume are two absolutely different things. The company may grow market share (if it has superior products) when the market as a whole is tanking. Apple not being able to grow their share means that they lost the edge in design.

Market share is also driven by price, particularly on a worldwide. Apple just isn't going to sell at prices like Lenovo and Dell.

Apple's products are just a no go for a lot of people due to price and Apple is OK with that. Seems to be working quite well. Apple could have the best design (I think they do) and the best everything, but simply be too expensive for some to even consider.

 

[Technarchy]

Probably because people were expecting Apple to release a $999 MacBook Air, and instead Apple price gouged it. People have reached a limit for what they're willing to pay for Apple devices, especially with the upgrades being refinement and not innovation. I paid $2500 for my fully loaded 2017 iMac, with a no-tax and student discount, and still think I overpaid.

There’s lots of spin out there but cost is huge factor in why I made zero Apple purchases in 2018.

 

[curtvaughan]

I think the reason you see more Mac's than Window PC's around is that the average life span of a MAC is much longer than a PC.
Are there any data on average lifespan ? I have donate my 15 inch mid 2009 MBP to my granddaughter and she is happily using it.

That certainly used to be true. I still have a 2006 MBP that still runs, though the hard drive is starting to make worrisome noises. Apple stopped supporting it long ago, so I dual boot it with a 32-bit Linux distro, and keep it around just because of its amazing longevity. The newer (over the last 5 years) PCs are of much higher quality than used to be the case, especially at the high end. I recently purchased a System 76 Linux laptop for $2300, an Oryx Pro. It's a great performer, and kind of reminds me of my old MBP with the feel of the keyboard and its responsiveness in general. For the money, I think I got a much better deal than I would have with a comparable MBP right now. The newer ones are exhibiting problems, often within 2-3 years. This is the gist I get in watching Louis Rossmann's Macbook repair clips on youtube. The new ones are fairly fragile, and some of the things going on under the hood are a bit sketchy.
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I’m not very well practised in Numbers, but I threw this together at the time the last MBPs were released. The prices don’t seem too far different from years past, especially if adjusted for inflation.

True, but you get a lot less bang per buck - flimsy keyboard, overheating issues, non-upgradable or user-repairable, etc. I paid about $2100 for my 2006 MBP, and it still runs. I have replaced the battery three times (user replaceable), and the machine is easily opened for disk/memory upgrades, vacuuming, etc.
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Anyone using both windows and macos will attest the os's are profoundly similar

Actually, at least at the command line level, MacOs has much more in common with Linux - it runs BSD Unix under the hood. The current crop of Linux desktop distributions include those which are very similar in feel to MacOS.
t
[doublepost=1547247629][/doublepost]

The more I work with tablets, the more I love my Mac.
iPad Pro is just crap in comparison to a pre Touch Bar thin keyboard Mac.
A MacBook Pro is a beautiful and reliable, versatile robust daily runner, my iPad Pro a crappy play tool.

I am a twinkle away to get surface book ...

Until the latest generation, in which the headphone jack was removed, I was an advocate of the iPad. I use my 2017 model for my music pursuits. I'm able to use it in lieu of sheet music for rehearsing, practice, and performing - iOS music software has advanced so that music can be uploaded via PDF and similar formats, and then edited and marked using the iPad pencil. The headphone jack on my Pro 12 allows me to get great sound feedback through nice wired headphones. But I agree, that it doesn't replace the functionality of a great laptop or desktop - it lacks ports, multi-windowing, mouse, and a tactile keyboard, and its display is limited to 12 or less inches. My main issues with the newer (last few years) Apple laptops - removal of useful ports, unreliable keyboard hardware, and high price.

 

[jasonefmonk]

True, but you get a lot less bang per buck - flimsy keyboard, overheating issues, non-upgradable or user-repairable, etc. I paid about $2100 for my 2006 MBP, and it still runs. I have replaced the battery three times (user replaceable), and the machine is easily opened for disk/memory upgrades, vacuuming, etc.

Well what about my 2007 15-inch MBP—for which I also paid a large amount—dying within four years because of a common and known-issue with graphics card overheating and de-soldering from the logic board. They eventually had a repair program in place.

Today you get significantly better build from the chassis to the hinge, much higher quality displays, and the T2 system. There is no excuse for the keyboard reliability issues.

 

[rommex]

Comparing Macs sold to Windows PCs sold is comparing  to Oranges. This comparison has been going on for decades. Apple isn't the 4th largest PC builder because it's not a PC. It has always been strange to read these comparisons, as if  is on the same playing field as Windows. This isn't Ford vs Chevy. It's Ford vs Cessna or Lear or... well you get it.

It’s better to return to reality. PCs and macs are just interchangeable computer devices, with very similar user experience. Just get marketing BS off your years

 

[Naaaaak]

I'd like to replace my 10 y.o. MBP but not at these prices. NO!

Apple has an iPad to sell you. "It's just like a real computer."

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I'd like to replace my 10 y.o. MBP but not at these prices. NO!

I wanted to replace my 2012 Mac Mini with the 2018 model. The price increase wasn't the problem as it was only $200 more, entry level vs entry level. But what got me was the way it was done. It was like product package shrinkage where the price goes slightly higher but you realize that there's a lot less inside the package.

I was even OK with the i3 CPU and Intel GPU. I was even OK with the 128GB baseline SSD storage. What I wasn't OK with is that the SSD storage was now soldered onto the motherboard. So if it fails and eventually it will you either suck up the high cost of a new motherboard or buying Applecare.

If you want to upgrade to 256GB SSD, that's another $200 bump in price for that model. They giveth and they taketh because they allowed for memory upgrades but shut the door on user SSD upgrades. They could have designed the new Mini chassis to use fast blade SSD storage that was user upgradeable but they chose to tweak the configuration where you have to spend more to upgrade the Mac.

Now some say, hey no problem just add an external TB3 SSD drive and you're good to go. But that also drives up the cost buying an external enclosure or a prepackaged TB3 SSD drive. So after careful consideration I decided not to play that game and i'm sticking with the 2012 Mini until it fails.

 

[hans1972]

Got to admit MS has some nice looking notebooks this yr. Family member got one and its pretty nice.

And yet, Microsoft Surface line dropped 12% YoY in the US.
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So obvious. Limited options for Mac desktop and they are not powerful computers.

Desktops are not what is driving Mac sales.

In the general PC market the desktop market share might be as high as one third, but for Apple which for almost 2 decades have had limited desktop options it is even lower.
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What's the excuse this time?

Previously, it was because MacBook Air and Pro had not been updated. Now the updates have arrived.

A lot of it could be caused by Chinas as Tim Cook said. Greater China is as important to Apple revenue as Europe and last financial year, Mac was particular strong in China.
[doublepost=1547315607][/doublepost]

Sold my 2009 MB pro after seeing the updates last September, I budgeted $2400 for a new MBP. Got $250 for the little bugger. Went to Amazon for the prime day sale and spent $220 (costs more now) for a 14 inch Acer 4/32 with two USB C ports an HDMI and headphone jack. Two days to my front porch, I am so happy. Apple is out $2,250!

So without people like you, Acer would have fallen even more than 21.9% in the US?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Apple had $266,000,000,000 in sales in 2018.

$25B of that was Mac...that’s half the sales of the entire Walt Disney Company for 2018.

They sold over 18M new units of a product with an average life of around 5 years. So yeah, people want them.

Thanks for the update Tim.

 

[mavericks7913]

And yet, Microsoft Surface line dropped 12% YoY in the US.
[doublepost=1547314820][/doublepost]

Desktops are not what is driving Mac sales.

In the general PC market the desktop market share might be as high as one third, but for Apple which for almost 2 decades have had limited desktop options it is even lower.
[doublepost=1547315202][/doublepost]

A lot of it could be caused by Chinas as Tim Cook said. Greater China is as important to Apple revenue as Europe and last financial year, Mac was particular strong in China.
[doublepost=1547315607][/doublepost]

So without people like you, Acer would have fallen even more than 21.9% in the US?

You are not realizing what is happening to Mac computers I guess? Mac computers are not powerful in these days and lost their own advantages with MacOS. At this point, there is no reason to buy Mac.

 

[hans1972]

Remains the question, why is Lenovo successful and Apple not ?

Lenove did buy Fujitsu's PC business which may make the numbers difficult to compare.

 

[KevinN206]

Agreed. Say what you will about Apple these days, but Windows is pretty much as terrible to use as ever (if not more). ha ha

I am using Windows 10 with the latest update right now. In what ways was it terrible to use for you? No problem on my Huawei Matebook X Pro. The thin bezel and the 3:2 aspect ratio screen is a joy to use.

 

[hans1972]

You are not realizing what is happening to Mac computers I guess? Mac computers are not powerful in these days and lost their own advantages with MacOS. At this point, there is no reason to buy Mac.

You are assuming that performance drove the Mac sales before and therefore a lack of performance today is causing a sales drop. I am not sure either its true.

 

[KevinN206]

Not sure why everybody is needing an upgrade. The "problem" with the whole PC market is that any PC that is 5 years old or newer are fast enough for majority of people. Heck, after the switch to SSD, almost any computer can last as long as you want it to be (or until the battery crapped out for laptops). The number one failure point of a computer is usually the hard drive, and Apple has taken care of that for all their notebook lineup and some on their desktop by switching to SSD.

I had 2012 Macbook Air that I have passed on to another person, and that thing is still blazing fast on everyday's tasks. I myself am using a 2013 15" Macbook Pro, and I don't even feel the need to upgrade at all after all these years.

There's a reason Apple decided to put more focus on mobile, and it shows as iPhone is their major cash cow for the last decade.

The NVMe drive in the new macbooks are also soldered in, and they removed the recovery port from the logic board. I hope these NVMe drives are reliable.

 

[hans1972]

And (you seem to be dancing around it) Lenovo increased their growth 5.9% while Apple fell -3.8%

You have to look at these numbers over a longer time. If you have been following these numbers by Gartners and IDC for the last 10 years, you would know that there have been many quarters where at least on the larger PC manufacturer has been beating Apple.

In Q4 2017, HP gained 6.6% while Lenovo declined 0.7%. Apple increased 1.4%.
Where Apple Mac lineup a year ago fantastic? Did HP go from geniuses to idiots in one year?

Of course, not. One reason HP have poor YoY is because they had a stellar Q4 2017. The good result for Lenovo could be due to a bad Q4 2017 and that they bought Fujitsu PC division in 2018.

You can not look at these numbers in isolation.
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Yeah most in iPhones sales. But it’s about the future of the company that has alienated a lot of older customers like myself that have been with them since the return of Jobs.

And Steve Jobs was all about post-PC and wanted the iPad to be the computing device of the future.

 

[Tiger8]

Yes. Why wouldn’t I be serious? Look around you. The average consumer can get by with current tablet offerings and smartphones for A LOT of the web browsing, email, video watching tasks they do. I won’t argue that certain work tasks require the processing power of a PC, but this report is in reference to the PC market as a whole, and it’s absolutely no surprise.

I agree with you regarding the average consumer, I use my iPad daily but my personal laptop barely gets a couple of hours a week.

That said, 9 hours a day I'm using my company laptop to work. It's a Lenovo. It's actually pretty nice and powerful. It's no surprise Lenovo is killing it, their top tier products are meant for corporations.

It's kind of ironic, Apple lead the revolution of people not needing their personal pcs, but the Lenovos and Dells and HPs switched their gears towards corporate, something Apple couldn't do. They even took clues from MacBook Air and other Apple innovations (thinner, lighter, ssd, no optical drive) and applied it to their corporate laptops.

 

[hans1972]

Apple - not successful in selling computers. AAPL is successful (not that much in the last three months), from its "cotton wool" section!

Lenovos PC division have struggled with profits and only in 2018 have they gained their #1 position and increased profitability.

Calendar Q3, one of the strongest quarters for Lenovo in a long time, there "PC"-division had revenue of $10.2 billion which also includes displays, IoT-devices and gaming. Apple had $7.4 billions in revenue.

Lenovo PC division had about 5% in profit, the highest among PC manufacturers. Apple's profits on Mac is probably much higher.

So, I would say that both Lenovo and Apple are successful.

 

[mavericks7913]

You are assuming that performance drove the Mac sales before and therefore a lack of performance today is causing a sales drop. I am not sure either its true.

It is true. Take a look at the video of comparing PC and Mac for Adobe software. Mac is optimized only for their own software like Final Cut Pro and they have only 5 professional software. What do you expect?

In technical aspect, Mac computer is so terrible. Look at the cooling system. They always throttle while PC dont have any issue since they have huge coolers for CPU and GPU. Mac Pro 2013 was a mess for sure. iMac have only one cooler to cool both CPU and GPU at once. Who would want that kind of computer?

 

[Baymowe335]

Thanks for the update Tim.

I know it sucks to destroy a narrative with facts, but someone has to balance the ridiculous narrative that the Mac is a wasteland product failure.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I think the increased prices don’t help but the traditional PC industry as a whole is in decline as people find they need computers less and less and are able to use other devices like chromebooks, tablets and even smartphones.
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I agree with you regarding the average consumer, I use my iPad daily but my personal laptop barely gets a couple of hours a week.

That said, 9 hours a day I'm using my company laptop to work. It's a Lenovo. It's actually pretty nice and powerful. It's no surprise Lenovo is killing it, their top tier products are meant for corporations.

It's kind of ironic, Apple lead the revolution of people not needing their personal pcs, but the Lenovos and Dells and HPs switched their gears towards corporate, something Apple couldn't do. They even took clues from MacBook Air and other Apple innovations (thinner, lighter, ssd, no optical drive) and applied it to their corporate laptops.

It’s not that Apple can’t do it. Lenovo and Dell work well in corporate settings because they offer machines in bulk for cheap. The unit price for an Apple computer for most business is just not cost effective. Most corporations will choose quantity over quality. I work in healthcare and all of the computers are a pile of crap. Yet they would never invest in macs because of the cost.

 

[HJM.NL]

Macs are getting really blah and ridiculously expensive so no surprise there. My next working machine will be the new Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga coming out in June. It may have W10, but it's manegable.

Totally agree with you. Look at the new laptops at CES. There is no compelling reasons buying a Mac laptop/desktop these days. Since 2012 there is neglect to the whole platform and the development in hard- and software is going on for years. Together with the increased prices and subpar specifications it’s a wonder their sales haven’t even fallen harder. Apple is totally out of touch with reality and their offerings are a complete mess. Thanks Tim Cook & Co, it almost looks like you want to fail on purpose.

Where is that R&D going? Even when Apple was just a tenth of the size the company is now, there was so much more coming out that famous pipeline. Anyone has a clue?
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What's the excuse this time?

Previously, it was because MacBook Air and Pro had not been updated. Now the updates have arrived.

The updates are only incremental and not competitive. I think Tim Cook & Co are testing loyalty to the brand.

Name one Apple product that is competitive these days and is good value for money.

 

[Bacillus]

You are assuming that performance drove the Mac sales before and therefore a lack of performance today is causing a sales drop. I am not sure either its true.

So ? He must be ignoring people that prefer underperforming computers ?

 

[Tiger8]

I think the increased prices don’t help but the traditional PC industry as a whole is in decline as people find they need computers less and less and are able to use other devices like chromebooks, tablets and even smartphones.
[doublepost=1547368255][/doublepost]
It’s not that Apple can’t do it. Lenovo and Dell work well in corporate settings because they offer machines in bulk for cheap. The unit price for an Apple computer for most business is just not cost effective. Most corporations will choose quantity over quality. I work in healthcare and all of the computers are a pile of crap. Yet they would never invest in macs because of the cost.

Actually, things have changed in corporate world, at least in the last 5 years or so. I work as a consultant and had the pleasure of if working in multiple companies from various industries , and yes, as a consultant we used to get horrible laptops, and even the manager would be carrying an outdated brick.

But like I said, the newer models are mac book lookalike kind of deal, Lenovo X series seems popular, and most configurations start at $1,200+. Corporate IT don't like Mac because they don't like supporting a third operating system (most already support Linux and Windows)

 

[lcseds]

It’s not that Apple can’t do it. Lenovo and Dell work well in corporate settings because they offer machines in bulk for cheap. The unit price for an Apple computer for most business is just not cost effective. Most corporations will choose quantity over quality. I work in healthcare and all of the computers are a pile of crap. Yet they would never invest in macs because of the cost.

Agreed. But it's not just the cost of the Mac, but the extremely high price of the extended warranty. And service parts are priced just as crazy. Even if a company is floating in money, the productivity difference does not justify the cost of macs. And macs are way too fragile for lots of true mobile usage.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Agreed. But it's not just the cost of the Mac, but the extremely high price of the extended warranty. And service parts are priced just as crazy. Even if a company is floating in money, the productivity difference does not justify the cost of macs. And macs are way too fragile for lots of true mobile usage.

Back in the early 90's when I was in the tech service business I went to a Grid computer support class. They were a subsidiary of Tandy Corp i.e. Radio Shack. Their computers were built, marketed and sold to corporate as the indestructible laptop. Sales reps were instructed to literally and I mean literally to toss them across the room during their presentation and they were instructed to literally toss them in the trunk of their car. Because it's funny how employees tend to care less about what happens to the equipment they use when they don't have to pay for it.

You can't do that with a Macbook Pro or any of Apple's Mac laptops, they're too fragile. The other thing going against Apple in the corporate world is service. The corporate world prefers to have techs onsite to solve and fix hardware problems and replace parts when needed. You can't do that with Apple's laptops at least the current offerings from a few years back. Even if a tech could disassemble the laptop they are too time consuming when they are supporting hundreds if not thousands of devices.

Chromebook's as I mentioned earlier in this thread have hurt PC and Mac sales more than people realize. They are the iPad equivalent to the PC world. They are cheap, durable for the most part and require little maintenance.