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Not exactly winning debating points here, pal!

Why would you compare computer sales numbers/figures with (children's) entertainment figures? Why not relatable figures from other computer hardware or software figures.

What next - the GDP of a small nation or the price of an aircraft carrier?

Most people buying Mac PCs are stuck in the environment - and not happy. More expensive, less engineering effort (heat dissipation), stripped off their own unique features that were iconic and useful, and making the feel of the keyboard feedback useless, the unwanted changes list is long.

iOS and macOS - not in the same league.

Shouting does not emphasize a point in the way it comes across here.
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Prices are supposed to come down, even adjusted for inflation, year on year, definitely over longer periods like a decade or two.
Lord. The point wasn't to compare the companies...it was to give you a general idea on the SIZE of a Mac business that appears small within the enormous total business of Apple.

Apple has an enormous Mac business and it's pretty much setting revenue records (relatively flat y/y) but way up over time.

Give me FACTS to show people aren't happy. Apple has the highest customer satisfaction in the industry. You know who isn't happy? People on Windows.

I know facts are hard to grasp, but the Mac business is still a very large business and important part of Apple, doing fantastically well. If people didn't like them, they wouldn't be setting revenue records for Mac.
 
This is pure speculation on my part. But I can't help but wonder if Apple might just spin off the Mac division of the company into a separate business. Laptops and desktops have become passé now that the smartphone and to a lesser extent the tablet have become the new "personal computer".

You can argue all you want about the Mac being Apple's heritage. But Apple didn't hesitate at all to kill the iPod once it was obvious that sales were on the wane.

Apple will not continue to invest money into a declining product line.

The more I work with tablets, the more I love my Mac.
iPad Pro is just crap in comparison to a pre Touch Bar thin keyboard Mac.
A MacBook Pro is a beautiful and reliable, versatile robust daily runner, my iPad Pro a crappy play tool.

I am a twinkle away to get surface book ...
 
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Mac sales are down less than entire industry. Have to look at the larger picture in the PC market. Revenues have also remained relatively flat.

I think the main point here is that Apple's market share has remained flat for the past 6 years after a phenomenal growth in the previous years.

In 2013 the trashcan Mac Pro was released and the Mac has been stumbling ever since.
 
Lord. The point wasn't to compare the companies...it was to give you a general idea on the SIZE of a Mac business that appears small within the enormous total business of Apple.

Apple has an enormous Mac business and it's pretty much setting revenue records (relatively flat y/y) but way up over time.

Give me FACTS to show people aren't happy. Apple has the highest customer satisfaction in the industry. You know who isn't happy? People on Windows.

I know facts are hard to grasp, but the Mac business is still a very large business and important part of Apple, doing fantastically well. If people didn't like them, they wouldn't be setting revenue records for Mac.

Tim will hire You.
Mac could be way more, double their market share, if apple would invest in it, which they don’t do
 
I think the main point here is that Apple's market share has remained flat for the past 6 years after a phenomenal growth in the previous years.

In 2013 the trashcan Mac Pro was released and the Mac has been stumbling ever since.
The whole PC industry has basically been a turd for growth. It's been largely negative, particularly the last 3-4 years...mostly because of iPads and larger phones.
 
The more I work with tablets, the more I love my Mac.
iPad Pro is just crap in comparison to a pre Touch Bar thin keyboard Mac.
A MacBook Pro is a beautiful and reliable, versatile robust daily runner, my iPad Pro a crappy play tool.

I am a twinkle away to get surface book ...

I also own a 12.9 iPad Pro and I agree. It's great for consuming media and using the pencil, but otherwise it's pretty useless compared to a laptop/desktop.

The hardware has great potential, but iOS is too restrictive and dumb.
 
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Tim will hire You.
Mac could be way more, double their market share, if apple would invest in it, which they don’t do
Doubtful. It might be bigger at the expense of iPad and iPhone, plus the future is mobile...period. Most people just want to consume on their iPad/iPhone.

The A series chips are so powerful that when iPad inevitably gets Mac OS, laptops/PCs will be a niche business.
 
The whole PC industry has basically been a turd for growth. It's been largely negative, particularly the last 3-4 years...mostly because of iPads and larger phones.

Growth is irrelevant when considering market share.

10% is 10% independently of the total.
 
Growth is irrelevant when considering market share.

10% is 10% independently of the total.
This report shows their share actually increased. Apple isn't trying to get the most market share because you have to give your hardware away to get it.
 
The A series chips are so powerful that when iPad inevitably gets Mac OS, laptops/PCs will be a niche business.

That has been the narrative since the first iPad, and yet here we are. The vast majority of people still use a laptop or desktop to work.
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This report shows their share actually increased. Apple isn't trying to get the most market share because you have to give your hardware away to get it.

Market share has remained flat since 2012.
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I know several people who refuse to buy any Apple laptop that has the crappy NuKeyboard / dust condom. Instead, they stick with their 5+ yo MacBook Pros.

The desktop side is also annoying. Being able to easily access and upgrade RAM is a basic design requirement. Periodic component refreshes are another basic requirement Apple consistently fails at.

Sculley 2.0 and Captain Thin aren't the dynamic duo we need to lead the Mac (or Apple) to greatness.

Totally agree. I have the cash and want to upgrade my 13'' 2014 rMBP, but the current offerings are terrible.
 
Lord. The point wasn't to compare the companies...it was to give you a general idea on the SIZE of a Mac business that appears small within the enormous total business of Apple.

Apple has an enormous Mac business and it's pretty much setting revenue records (relatively flat y/y) but way up over time.

Give me FACTS to show people aren't happy. Apple has the highest customer satisfaction in the industry. You know who isn't happy? People on Windows.

I know facts are hard to grasp, but the Mac business is still a very large business and important part of Apple, doing fantastically well. If people didn't like them, they wouldn't be setting revenue records for Mac.

Yaas. Not the point.

We all know how big Apple's Mac section is, and how satisfied their consumers are - typing this on a 2015 MBP 15"; very happy.

Then, things happened ... :mad:
 
The whole PC industry has basically been a turd for growth. It's been largely negative, particularly the last 3-4 years...mostly because of iPads and larger phones.
You're forgetting Chromebook's. They are relatively inexpensive and your data follows you via the cloud, schools have been going the Chromebook route because of costs. I do agree that for basic use iPad's, iPhone's as well as Android Phones have evolved such that you can do a lot with them that otherwise would require a computer. Chromebook's have the benefits of a mobile device in a laptop shell and don't hurt the wallet.

The other thing regarding PC's and not Mac's is that Windows has evolved to the point where it runs really well on older hardware. I run Windows 10 on several laptops that are 11-12 years old and they get the job done nicely.

Most of the PC upgrades in the past have been related to PC games and that as well has gotten to the point where a newer GPU can pretty much fix performance issues. I'm still getting solid performance from a 5 yr old PC build and most of my games 85-90% of them I can play on HIGH to Max settings.
 
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That has been the narrative since the first iPad, and yet here we are. The vast majority of people still use a laptop or desktop to work.
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Market share has remained flat since 2012.
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Totally agree. I have the cash and want to upgrade my 13'' 2014 rMBP, but the current offerings are terrible.
The first iPad wasn't close to ready for MacOS neither was the 4th...the new ones are.

Mac Revenue is up significantly since 2012. Apple isn't interested in market share at the peril of margin. Worked out well for them.
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You're forgetting Chromebook's. They are relatively inexpensive and your data follows you via the cloud, schools have been going the Chromebook route because of costs. I do agree that for basic use iPad's, iPhone's as well as Android Phones have evolved such that you can do a lot with them that otherwise would require a computer. Chromebook's have the benefits of a mobile device in a laptop shell and don't hurt the wallet.

The other thing regarding PC's and not Mac's is that Windows has evolved to the point where it runs really well on older hardware. I run Windows 10 on several laptops that are 11-12 years old and they get the job done nicely.

Most of the PC upgrades in the past have been related to PC games and that as well has gotten to the point where a newer GPU can pretty much fix performance issues. I'm still getting solid performance from a 5 yr old PC build and most of my games 85-90% of them I can play on HIGH to Max settings.
Chromebooks have no margin and wouldn't be something Apple would be interested in duplicating.
 



Apple's worldwide Mac shipments fell in the fourth quarter of 2018, according to new preliminary PC shipping estimates shared this afternoon by Gartner.

During the quarter, Apple shipped an estimated 4.9 million Macs, down from 5.1 million in the year-ago quarter. Apple's share of the market grew, however, from 7.1 percent in 3Q18 to 7.2 percent.

gartner_4Q18_global-1.jpg

Gartner's Preliminary Worldwide PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q18 (Thousands of Units)


Apple continues to maintain its position as the number four PC vendor in the world, behind Dell, HP, and Lenovo, but ahead of Asus and Acer.

Lenovo was the top PC vendor with 16.6 million shipments and 24.2 percent market share, followed by HP with 15.4 million shipments and 22.4 percent market share, with Dell coming in at number three with 11 million shipments and 15.9 percent market share.

Asus trailed Apple with 4.2 million shipments and 6.1 percent market share, as did Acer with 3.9 million shipments and 5.6 percent market share.

gartner_4Q18_trend.jpg

Apple's Market Share Trend: 1Q06-4Q18 (Gartner)
Apple's dipping Mac sales followed a trend that affected many PC vendors, with overall worldwide PC shipments dropping to 68.6 million, a 4.3 percent drop from the 71.7 million PCs shipped in the fourth quarter of 2017.

Apple also saw a small decline in the number of Macs shipped in the United States. Apple shipped 1.76 million Macs during the quarter, down from 1.8 million in the year-ago quarter, for a 2.1 percent drop in growth and 12.4 percent market share (up from 12.1 percent).

gartner_4Q18_us.jpg

Gartner's Preliminary U.S. PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q18 (Thousands of Units)
HP was the number one PC vendor in the U.S. with 4.7 million PCs shipped, followed by Dell and Lenovo. Microsoft and Acer both trailed Apple.

According to Gartner, overall worldwide PC sales were impacted by a shortage of CPUs and political and economic uncertainties in some countries, including the U.S.For all of 2018, Gartner estimates that Apple sold a total of 18 million Macs, down from close to 19 million in 2017. Apple's shipments fell five percent year-over-year, and its total market share for 2018 dropped from 7.2 percent to 6.9 percent.

gartner_2018_global.jpg

Gartner's Preliminary Worldwide PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 2018 (Thousands of Units)
IDC also released its own shipment estimates this afternoon, noting a similar decline in sales for Apple. IDC also ranks Apple as the number four PC vendor in the world with global shipments that reached 4.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2018.

IDC's data suggests Apple's Mac shipments were down 3.8 percent, with market share remaining steady. Like Gartner, IDC estimates Apple sold 18 million Macs in 2018, down from 19 million in 2017.

It's important to note that data from Gartner and IDC is estimated and while not usually far off from Apple's sales, not entirely accurate, either. While we've been able to check estimated data when Apple provides its quarterly earnings releases with actual Mac sales information, there will be no way to do so going forward.

Apple no longer plans to break out unit sales for the iPhone, iPad, and Mac, so determining the exact number of Mac sales will not be possible going forward.

Though sales were down during the holiday quarter, Apple could see some pickup in the future thanks to the October release of the new MacBook Air, a more affordable alternative to the MacBook Pro. The newly refreshed model features a Retina display, Thunderbolt 3 support, up to 16GB of RAM, a T2 chip, a new butterfly keyboard and Force Touch trackpad, and other features.

Article Link: Apple's Mac Sales Drop in Q4 2018 Amid Worldwide PC Shipment Decline
[doublepost=1547226656][/doublepost]About time for apple to run OSX on the iPad and get with the times?
 
I just hope my 5 year old Macbook Pro will last for 5 more years. After that CEO Scott Forstall will probably launch Mac with a leather cover with a tactile keyboard. I will buy that. :D. At this price point even Bill Gates can't afford Mac not that he would buy Mac but just saying.
 
If I remember correctly (some articles I read) Apple's Mac business is nowadays essentially about laptops.

If they are dropping just when their supposedly workhorse laptop is updated and the MBP is quite fresh that is not good.

PC overall business may be going down but Apple had everything going this quarter.
 
Macs are getting really blah and ridiculously expensive so no surprise there. My next working machine will be the new Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga coming out in June. It may have W10, but it's manegable.
Bye
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Sold my 2009 MB pro after seeing the updates last September, I budgeted $2400 for a new MBP. Got $250 for the little bugger. Went to Amazon for the prime day sale and spent $220 (costs more now) for a 14 inch Acer 4/32 with two USB C ports an HDMI and headphone jack. Two days to my front porch, I am so happy. Apple is out $2,250!
I hope you will be happy
 
Probably because people were expecting Apple to release a $999 MacBook Air, and instead Apple price gouged it. People have reached a limit for what they're willing to pay for Apple devices, especially with the upgrades being refinement and not innovation.

Correct. If you don't consider the pathetic 128 and 256 Gig SSD the MacBook Air starts at $1600!
 
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The whole PC industry has basically been a turd for growth. It's been largely negative, particularly the last 3-4 years...mostly because of iPads and larger phones.
Market share and market volume are two absolutely different things. The company may grow market share (if it has superior products) when the market as a whole is tanking. Apple not being able to grow their share means that they lost the edge in design.
 
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