Apple's Negotiations and the iPhone in Europe

Compile 'em all said:
Concerning the unlock, this will be tricky. It is highly probable that iPhone will have the new firmware installed, rendering the unlock patch useless.
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Interesting issue for Apple. If the phone's easily unlockable, they'll sell more, but won't get the revenues. They'll also probably leave themselves open to litigation from the telcos they've signed up.

Sure, they can't be seen to allow unlocking, but I'm sure they don't need to retrospectively and actively block the unblockers.
 
With all this talk, checked out o2, VF sites and seems your are getting less minutes now than say last year, definately not as many benefits.

My plan now is 750 and 100 texts.

Seems the best way is to stay with a provider and haggle when it comes to renewing!

3 seems to have good plans and pretty cheap. Quite impressive.
 
Glenny2lappies said:
Interesting issue for Apple. If the phone's easily unlockable, they'll sell more, but won't get the revenues. They'll also probably leave themselves open to litigation from the telcos they've signed up.

Sure, they can't be seen to allow unlocking, but I'm sure they don't need to retrospectively and actively block the unblockers.
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Telcos that have other exclusive phones - do they sue the manufacturers if those phones get unlocked? If not, then iPhone won't be much different, just higher profile.
 
Plumbstone said:
I am sure they will do a similar thing in the UK, there are plenty of people in London esspecially who can afford to pay over the odds for it and I am sure they will do. Once the initial excitement dies down they upgrade the product, drop the price and sales go through the roof. I reckon we will see iPhones in stores tomorrow at 11, but they won't be cheap!!
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Given Apple are reportedly getting upto 40% of the revenues, this hints at a very low price for the iPhone. This also means that they'll need to make sure it can't be unlocked easily.
 
Let me get this straight. There are a number of posters concerned about whether or not O2 will make enough money selling the iPhone?

For some reason, I can't get worked up about whether a cellular phone company can make enough money.

Apple has a killer product. O2 had to outbid a bunch of other suitors to get it. They did so because they felt it strategically important to their business. They did so knowing about an unlock. They aren't stupid, and believe me, they are watching their pocketbook.

Somehow I think it'll turn out just fine for them.
 
Yixian said:
Not the sharpest knife in the draw are you mate?

(300 x 1.175) / 12 = £29.30

That's still less than 30, and as you said, that's across the whole base. Most of the public is going to be right down in the £20s, it's the small number of people who rely on their phones as a business who might spend £100+ a month, so unless Apple is content with that small number of actual handset sales, they're going to need to price lower than that.

AND that's often with free handsets.

Next time you accuse me of nonsense, check to see if you haven't already disproven your point in your own freaking post.
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Actually the reported figure for VF last year was £314 - so that does take ou over £30 a month MRPU

And thats fully blended across all users from PrePay to corporate
 
Project said:
Sorry mate, but you are wrong on this one. The £300 includes all of their prepay accountss, which have a far lower APRU than contracts. Here are the figures from O2's own financial statements.

2. Average revenue per user (ARPU)(1) - £

O2 UK (2)

Quarterly monthly average
Pre-pay 11 12 12 12 12
Post-pay 43 44 43 42 43
Blended 22 23 23 22 23

So the average revenue per user per month on contract is £43. Thats £512 per annum. For PAYG its £144.
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Thanks - you put my point across much better than I did ;)
 
Compile 'em all said:
I assume one would be able to buy it without a contract but a contract is needed to USE it. Just like in the US.

Concerning the unlock, this will be tricky. It is highly probable that iPhone will have the new firmware installed, rendering the unlock patch useless.
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Chances are most likely 0 for this thing to land on Vodafone. :( The modmyiphone team will hopefully update the iActivator and then be able to use an unlocking software to free that sucker.
 
dernhelm said:
Let me get this straight. There are a number of posters concerned about whether or not O2 will make enough money selling the iPhone?

For some reason, I can't get worked up about whether a cellular phone company can make enough money.

Apple has a killer product. O2 had to outbid a bunch of other suitors to get it. They did so because they felt it strategically important to their business. They did so knowing about an unlock. They aren't stupid, and believe me, they are watching their pocketbook.

Somehow I think it'll turn out just fine for them.
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Noone would disagree with you.

I'm not concerned whether O2 make money or not. They're a very successful business, and I'm sure they will be fine.

The worry here is that if Apple are charging them a lot... then it's us who will end up paying! So until we find out the plan costs tomorrow, these stories about Apple taking a large cut of the revenue can only be a negative indicator of the price.
 
firestarter said:
The worry here is that if Apple are charging them a lot... then it's us who will end up paying! So until we find out the plan costs tomorrow, these stories about Apple taking a large cut of the revenue can only be a negative indicator of the price.
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Which price? It indicates that Apple could be selling the iPhone at a low price (sub-£200) and suplementing the purchase income with a relatively high contract price.

In much the same way as networks currently make the N95, for example, free.

This relies on Apple making it difficult to unlock. Not a great strategy imo.
 
NewSc2 said:
that's pretty retarded... with the unlock coming around the corner, why would somebody bid that high?
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The unlock isn't coming, it's here. The average consumer doesn't know, care or want to unlock their phone. The small percentage that know or understand about unlocking may see no advantage to crippling the features of their phone for no financial or feature gain.
 
firestarter said:
Noone would disagree with you.

I'm not concerned whether O2 make money or not. They're a very successful business, and I'm sure they will be fine.

The worry here is that if Apple are charging them a lot... then it's us who will end up paying! So until we find out the plan costs tomorrow, these stories about Apple taking a large cut of the revenue can only be a negative indicator of the price.
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If Apple charged less, who's to say that O2 would pass any savings along to you anyway? It's a bit naive to think that simply because Apple gets a cut of the plan price, that the plan price would be any lower if they didn't get that cut.
 
megfilmworks said:
The unlock isn't coming, it's here. The average consumer doesn't know, care or want to unlock their phone. The small percentage that know or understand about unlocking may see no advantage to crippling the features of their phone for no financial or feature gain.
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That maybe in the u.s, but in the UK I think a lot more people know what unlocking is and the benefits of ; people in the UK are generally more knowledgeable than say, the states regarding this. A lot of people I know in the UK have had their phones unlocked purely for the benefit of being able to use a non-uk SIM card when they travel.

In fact, OFCOM often recommends that you don't use roaming when going abroad on your cell phone, instead, buy a local SIM card to reduce cell phone charges.
 
U gotta remember guys.....

Jowl said:
O2 are starting to advertise and increase awareness/put in the contract details about it's EDGE network - a system it wrote off previously. That in it's self doesn't look for a 3G iPhone

I wonder how O2 shareholders feel after they back them to spend Billions on a 3G license ?
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o2 never bought a 3G licence!!

It was under ownership of BTCellnet at the time and when this business was sold to MM02 for about £3.5/£4 billion at the time, BT under the terms of the sale accepted the cost of the licence just to get shot of the whole operation, this business was then sold to Telefonica, so all in all sharholders should be ok 'bout it!

o2 were late coming to the table to offer 3G and data plans, so in comparison to T-Mobe, Orange, Voda and 3 it is expected that their coverage will seem somewhat slack (I think I'm right in saying that voda and t-mobe are in the process of a deal to arrange cross sharing of their masts)

Not that I'm defending o2 though, their coverage in Glasgow and west of sctotland is absolutely shocking compared to Voda, etc!!
 
iPhone shouldnt cost tooo much...

having a look on the O2 site, the N95, a seriously good phone comes in at:

199£, 25£/month, 18months - 200min, 400txts

FREE, 30£/month, 18months - 400min, 1000txts

perhaps its data that would make the iPhone more costly?


also, is it normal in an american contract to only have 200texts? 'cos is britains generally like more texts than minutes
 
I think there's a misconception in this thread, as several Europeans have stated that things are different over there because consumers expect to get phones for free when paying £30+ for a data plan.

That's NO DIFFERENT than the US. When the iPhone was released, $599 for a mobile phone with a 2 year (!!!) commitment and $60+ price plan *was* unheard of.

Most people here sign up 1 year contract at the most, and I'd say AT LEAST 75% of folks get their phones free, and most of the remaining 25% pay a pittance.

So the environment is a lot more similar than some folks seem to think...
 
MrT8064 said:
having a look on the O2 site, the N95, a seriously good phone comes in at:

199£, 25£/month, 18months - 200min, 400txts

FREE, 30£/month, 18months - 400min, 1000txts

perhaps its data that would make the iPhone more costly?


also, is it normal in an american contract to only have 200texts? 'cos is britains generally like more texts than minutes
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I currently pay £19 a month with O2 and get 300 minutes (off peak), 500 messages and 20 minutes on peak for emergencies. Those pay monthly tarrifs look pretty poor in comparison. I'd rather pay more for a phone and not be screwed for years with an expensive contract. Which is why I don't like Apple demanding money from our monthly fee, it'll just mean more expensive contracts which will cost the consumer in the long run.

EDIT: Actually the £30 contract looks OK (with 1,000 texts). If that included unlimited data in that price I would be perfectly happy to pay that.
 
coverage

Is anyone providing coverage of tomorrows announcement ? Or know the best place to go online to get the news ?
:apple:
 
Project said:
koob- it sounds like you have a great deal, but that really isnt the norm. Almost everybody I know pays £30-40 per month.
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Project said:
No. I'm a student. Standard £30 plans are the norm for most of my friends. And given how much they use the phone, £50-80 bills are common.
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They should definitely learn to threaten the companies...

bilbo--baggins said:
I've paid for my phones even with a contract over the last few years - because I've wanted the latest and greatest model of smartphone. It tends to be the simpler handsets, or the ones that have been around for a while that are free (unless you get a very expensive contract (eg. £50 per month upwards)
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You should threaten to leave. Do this and you'll get most stuff for free. That's what I did. I got a +£300 phone for free, the week it came out.

Even the Nokia N95 is free on contract (£30) at the moment. dunno where your £50 comes from...
 
Wouldn't apple be better off if they gave their wireless provider a better deal, thus allowing them to improve their network infrastructure and therefore their service quality and public image?
 
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