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Apple's Negotiations and the iPhone in Europe

Banjhiyi said:
Going with o2 in the UK is an absolute scandal. Apple is a company that prides itself on standing out from the crowd; devices that are a thing of beauty, technology to covet.

So choosing o2 is a bit of a contradiction. Of course o2 would agree to the terms - they are losing customers hand over fist since being taken over by Telefonica. Inflexible upgrades (some times you cannot upgrade, they force you into a lesser yet more expensive contract), date plans stuck in the 1980's, Indian call centres manned by people they have dug out of the nearest mental asylum and UK customer services so bad that they make Virgin Media look like a beacon of achievement.

Apple should have been less stringent and used a more reputable provider that is on the rise rather than one who is finished. Seriously, it just makes sense to have Apple working with Vodafone or t-mobile.

:(
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Come on man this is just getting silly. People would moan whatever network landed the iPhone. I have used them all and they're pretty much all as bad as easy other (though 3's data plans are immense)

As for the article... I just cant see Apple winning a 40% deal. Its too extreme. Even for Apple. 10-20% I can see but not 40. However, if the phone is not being subsidised by the carrier then I think its more than fair for Apple to take a %.

And for the people saying the phone will flop without 3G here...please. Take off your geek cap for a second and realise that the vast majority of people do not care and will be more than won over by what the iPhone can do and the way it does it. Either way, 3G coverage with O2 is so spotty outside London that I can truly understand the decision to stick with it. People who believe the UK is ubiquitous 3G and that everybody demands a 3G phone when signing up for a contract are living in dream world. Have you seen how many people are using BlackBerrys these days? They look like ancient tech compared to the iPhone but are awesome for email so they sell and are loved. The iPhone is awesome for media and the internet...a pretty giant leap above any other phone on these features. There will be a healthy market for it here...even sans 3G.

Don't get me wrong, id love 3G. But the iPhone is extremely enticing even with out it. And my current experience with 3G via a Nokia N series phone is an exercise in frustration. I barely ever get coverage and this is in the UKs second city (hint, its not Birmingham :cool:) - so it reverts to GPRS..and that is painful
 
Vodafone has the best coverage in the UK, the best network (3G) but not always the best prices (their PAYG has the worst pricing). O2 is second, Orange 3rd & T-mobile is plain rubbish. It would have been a lot worse if Orange or T-mobile had gotten the contract in the UK. O2 spent stacks in getting a 3G license but don't have a 3G network!

In the end its all horses for courses & it will come down to this (so network really doesn't matter):

1. If you can buy the iphone from Apple direct, unlock it & use it on any network without signing up/activating with O2 like people are doing in the US with AT&T, then it will be a winner.

2. The price will be £269 + £35-£40 per month + 18-24 month contract - Despite the quality product I suspect this will be a hard sell for the UK. The rule here is if you pay that kind of money for your handset then it is PAYG/sim free, if you pay that kind of money for a monthly tariff then your phone is undoubtedly free, only businesses take out 24 month contracts.
 
ANTMUZ said:
Maybe o2 are giving away 40% of revenues because Apple have allowed them to subsidise the phone, as is pretty normal in the UK.
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I agree.

gnasher729 said:
Apple isn't selling to people who want 3G. Apple is selling to people who want a phone that works, where _all_ features are actually usable to a normal human being, that has a built-in top-of-the-range iPod, not the equivalent to some cheap £20 MP3 player, and that has a full, usable Internet connection.
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I disagree. Phones over here are really good compared to the USA - I am more than sure phones that 'just work' are here. I am also sure that most people's mothers could still not operate the iphone. It's the techno savvy kids today that will buy this... not my parents!

With that in mind, the new ipods are out here and when people have just bought a new iPod, there's less chance they'll buy a phone with a built in iPod. Touchscreen? Plenty of phones with that. Most people prefer to use normal buttons... we'll see :rolleyes:
 
xStep said:
The fact any revenue beyound the sale of the iPhone is going to Apple is insane. To me this is like the music industry asking for a cut of iPod sales when they sell their toons on iTunes.
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Its not insane. Its Apple and Apple alone who are bringing the customers in. Apple handles support for the phone. Apple handles marketing for the phone. And the network does not need to subsidise a penny. So you are essentially saying the networks should be getting new customers for free?
 
The last time I checked it was common knowledge that the WiFi music store was coming to the iPhone. So the Guardians suggestion it isn't available is at best a negative spin on the current situation. At worst its just bad facts, bad journalism.

And if I can't rely on that, why would I believe the rest of it?!

Nearly every paragraph starts with a sentence containing the word: appears, believed, understood, etc.... Ok, fine on a rumour site; but when did 'city' journalism become this sketchy?

I hope, for the good of humanity, and the future of the planet, that such speculative journalism is confined to tech news forever more.

Oh hang on. "Sources suggest there are weapons of mass destruction"

No, wait, its fine, I think that was from an official government report, not an over-exaggerating journalist. That’s ok then :)
 
Whatever carrier Apple go with, you can't please everyone, just like in the US when they picked AT&T.
I live in the NW so get some of o2's best coverage on video/data etc, would I like an iPhone with 3G, yes but I have a 3G phone now (SEK800) do I use it, no because the GUI is pathetic and searching for stuff is a waste of time.
Would I be happy with EDGE and a better experience and actually be able to us it? you bet.
People are going on about long contracts, 18 months is a norm these days and I get so many minutes and texts from o2 I can't possibly use them all in a month. So if o2 add a nice data plan (ie: unlimited like AT&T) and you can upgrade from your existing your contract then I think I will be first in line.

Like others I have had all carriers (except 3) and found them to be almost identical, people will have bad experiences from all carriers, that's just life.
I have two phones on o2 and found them to be excellent, the one problem I had porting an old number we had was sorted and they gave us a free months rental for our troubles, good customer service.

3G is not going to be the iPhones achilles heel for most users, some won't ever use the email, some the photo viewer, they will just want and iPhone full stop!
 
hotboiled said:
There is no official European law that prohobits the locking of phones to a certain provider. It's the country itself that issues those laws atm.
Example: in the Netherlands its a common practice to lock phones, in Belgium it is prohibited
(because it violates the fair competition law)

so we get unlocked iphones or NO iphone :mad::( (in belgium)
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In Finland it's also prohibited to sell non-3G phone with a contract. So it's unlocked iPhone or no iphone in here too - unless they come up with some sort of rental system where you can buy the phone after two years of use for 1€ or something..
 
mkjj said:
People are going on about long contracts, 18 months is a norm these days and I get so many minutes and texts from o2 I can't possibly use them all in a month. So if o2 add a nice data plan (ie: unlimited like AT&T) and you can upgrade from your existing your contract then I think I will be first in line.

Like others I have had all carriers (except 3) and found them to be almost identical, people will have bad experiences from all carriers, that's just life.
Click to expand...

I am on 12 months at £15 a month, for 500 texts and 250 minutes a month, anytime any network. I also have a data allowance of 5MB a day, which I dont use.

£15 a month.

If the iPhone is +£200 and +£35 a month they can suck my vodafone.
 
mudaudio said:
The last time I checked it was common knowledge that the WiFi music store was coming to the iPhone. So the Guardians suggestion it isn't available is at best a negative spin on the current situation. At worst its just bad facts, bad journalism.

And if I can't rely on that, why would I believe the rest of it?!
Click to expand...

Er... the WiFi music store may be coming to the phone, but Starbucks aren't rolling it out in the UK. Maybe that's what they mean?
 
koobcamuk said:
I am on 12 months at £15 a month, for 500 texts and 250 minutes a month, anytime any network. I also have a data allowance of 5MB a day, which I dont use.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you are on a texter rather than a talker plan. Mine is 800 mins talk (wife travels a lot so need long talk time, you guys know what I mean:rolleyes:) and 200 texts plus free long weekends and int roaming charge. £35.00 a month.

So for another fiver or so a month for data then sign me up!:)
 
offwidafairies said:
:( what about down under
Click to expand...

Apple has always said that Asia will have the iPhone at the end of 2008 but I was speaking to an Australian Apple employee who confidently said the launch has been brought forward to the first third of 2008.

I mean, not great but not as bad as we thought.
 
mkjj said:
Sounds like you are on a texter rather than a talker plan. Mine is 800 mins talk (wife travels a lot so need long talk time, you guys know what I mean:rolleyes:) and 200 texts plus free long weekends and int roaming charge. £35.00 a month.

So for another fiver or so a month for data then sign me up!:)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're being ripped off.

I threatened to leave Vodafone and join 3 - then they beat their tariff. I have stop the clock - which means for the 'cost' of 3 inclusive minutes, I can talk for up to an hour to landline and vodafone mobiles. Hence, I don't need any more minutes because that allows me to talk for hours and hours in a week.

£35 a month is very expensive for what you're getting. Compare it to mine...

I bet you're on 18 month contract too.
 
alexeismertin said:
Vodafone has the best coverage in the UK, the best network (3G) but not always the best prices (their PAYG has the worst pricing). O2 is second, Orange 3rd & T-mobile is plain rubbish. It would have been a lot worse if Orange or T-mobile had gotten the contract in the UK. O2 spent stacks in getting a 3G license but don't have a 3G network!

In the end its all horses for courses & it will come down to this (so network really doesn't matter):

1. If you can buy the iphone from Apple direct, unlock it & use it on any network without signing up/activating with O2 like people are doing in the US with AT&T, then it will be a winner.

2. The price will be £269 + £35-£40 per month + 18-24 month contract - Despite the quality product I suspect this will be a hard sell for the UK. The rule here is if you pay that kind of money for your handset then it is PAYG/sim free, if you pay that kind of money for a monthly tariff then your phone is undoubtedly free, only businesses take out 24 month contracts.
Click to expand...

iPhone poll at Macworld UK

I'm with the free option :)
 
Nobody in their right mind will pay more than £30pm on top of the cost of the iPhone. They'll get away with no 3G, but if it's any more than £30 a month this thing will crash into the side of the mountain.
 
Philsy said:
It would silly to invest in inferior technology just to support the iPhone :confused:
Click to expand...

Edge is a very minor update to the infrastructure if you have the underlying technology installed. Of course you don't upgrade to Edge if you are trying to push 3G, but it is very worthwhile if you want to support the iPhone.
 
Just for reference, and ignoring VAT, the US base plan is:

£200 phone
£30 per month
450minutes, 200 text, 5000mins night + weekend
Unlimited data
Unlimited mobile to mobile

So, add VAT in, add Apple's 'Euro Tax' and add the fact that the UK mobile market is more cutthroat and I think we'll end up with:

£270 phone
£35 per month
500mins, 200 text
Unlimited data

Any more than that, and we're definately being ripped off.
 
Yixian said:
Nobody in their right mind will pay more than £30pm on top of the cost of the iPhone. They'll get away with no 3G, but if it's any more than £30 a month this thing will crash into the side of the mountain.
Click to expand...

A few will, most won't. That's why Apple dropped the price of the iPhone in the 'States. They sold out in the first couple or three weeks to the people that would cough up, but the 'masses' voted with their wallets and didn't buy.

The initial up-front cost of the iPhone isn't that relevant up against the ongoing costs of the contract. There's various factors to consider such as the lock-in time, inclusive minutes, out-of-plan costs and overall plan flexibility (things can and do change over time).

From what I see O2 is just about the worst for flexibility, lock-in time and out-of-plan costs. Any of these are a very bad thing; all mean that I probably won't bother.

Whist I really want an iPhone, I'm damned if I'm giving carte blanch to O2 to take me roughly from behind.

Lets face it, O2 better be competitive otherwise there'll be a huge number of iPhones that get sold but never connect to O2 - they'll be unlocked and used with any of the other networks at the best price plan. O2 can stick that in their pipe and smoke it.
 
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