Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

[Heltik]

I bet Arya Stark could trick it.

 

[You are the One]

According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 chance someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, though -- if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases.

I'd think it decreases...

 

[EdT]

I posted in another thread that Apple needs to get a neutral as possible 3rd party to verify that the system does work. Critics won't believe what Apple says and tv night shows aren't doing Apple any favors in the publicity department.

 

[dugbug]

A lot of overreaction or snark. We have never seen a face Id tech like this anywhere so like when Touch ID first came out let's see how this unfolds.

Huge tech in this thing. Can't wait for arstechnica to dissect this asic neural net aspect

 

[IJ Reilly]

I posted in another thread that Apple needs to get a neutral as possible 3rd party to verify that the system does work. Critics won't believe what Apple says and tv night shows aren't doing Apple any favors in the publicity department.

Soon enough it will be verified by millions of neutral third parties. And if Apple was worried about what was being said about them on TV they'd never release another product with a new feature, because this kind of thing happens every time, from removing the floppy drive through taking away the headphone jack. These changes have always been said to be a horrible, horrible mistake by someone. You'd think they'd learn, and by they I mean the people who assume over and over again that Apple doesn't have a clue even though they are proven wrong every time.

 

[tennisproha]

It is not as simple. I had read somewhere that it's 1 in 64 million that two people can have the same print but obvious difference is that Touch ID doesn't take an entire print. It barely does the top of the finger. This increases the probability. There are various other factors but I would still think Touch ID should be more secure. Just look at the explanation in this article - I don't remember reading such things about Touch ID.

It depends on the accuracy of the image acquisition. A Touch ID fingerprint is as accurate as the user input. Most people don't scan in their entire print, but it is possible.

As far as the validity, there are plenty of high-profile cases where fingerprint data was found to be fallible, for one reason of another. There is this assumption that fingerprints are foolproof but there is no scientific study to back that claim.

 

[Gasu E.]

Only works with one face... Non-starter for the iPhones in my family. The girls will be getting 7's anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

I'm trying to understand your family's usage. If you just want to be able to get into your kids' phones, you can do that easily, since passwords will work. If you are passing around a single phone and want it to work equally and automagically among multiple people, that seems odd. But it sounds as though that the kids are getting their own phones, so I am totally confused as to why passwords for non-primary users is not good enough.

 

[imaynotbearobot]

Ah, too bad about only 1 face profile, I was hoping it would work like TouchID in that regard.

That's a deal killer for me. We have no home phone, and my young son has his finger print stored in my phone for emergency's. He won't be able to unlock this one. Too bad. It looked nice.
[doublepost=1505407761][/doublepost]

I'm trying to understand your family's usage. If you just want to be able to get into your kids' phones, you can do that easily, since passwords will work. If you are passing around a single phone and want it to work equally and automagically among multiple people, that seems odd. But it sounds as though that the kids are getting their own phones, so I am totally confused as to why passwords for non-primary users is not good enough.

Not that. So many households have no landline anymore, that the cell phone is the only phone in the home. MY young son has his fingerprint stored in my phone for emergency's. If I can't store his face too, I can't use this phone.

 

[69Mustang]

I'm trying to understand your family's usage. If you just want to be able to get into your kids' phones, you can do that easily, since passwords will work. If you are passing around a single phone and want it to work equally and automagically among multiple people, that seems odd. But it sounds as though that the kids are getting their own phones, so I am totally confused as to why passwords for non-primary users is not good enough.

You may be overthinking my family's usage. It's purely about the convenience of the fingerprint system and not having to remember everyone's passcode. My 1 thumb has access to four phones. My wife's 1 thumb has access to 4 phones. Convenience. All the passcodes are stored away with only each individual needing to remember their own.

 

[Pho3bus]

It continually updates the face map so it always recognizes you.

Imagine someone seeing a picture of you with and without a beard. Big difference. But if you take a picture each day or even many times a day as that beard grows, the change is far less drastic and the difference isn't much.

I agree with this, but what interests me is the reverse process... I have a full beard and that's how Face ID would remember me. But what if I shave off all of my beard, would it stumble at recognition, because that change would be quite dramatic.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I agree with this, but what interests me is the reverse process... I have a full beard and that's how Face ID would remember me. But what if I shave off all of my beard, would it stumble at recognition, because that change would be quite dramatic.

Apple has said plainly, directly and unambiguously that this is not the case.

 

[iMi]

The Lumia 950 and 950XL do not do it in the same way. They used very very primitive setups to do so. They did not map the face in the same way that Apple does and were nowhere near as secure or well executed.

I disagree. Lumia phones are at least a couple of years old. I would expect the technology to evolve.

Apple solution should be better.

But the reality is that Windows Hello has evolved as well and works extremely well on the Surface products, for example. Apple is not innovating here. They are simply catching up. More secure? I doubt it.

 

[I7guy]

That's a deal killer for me. We have no home phone, and my young son has his finger print stored in my phone for emergency's. He won't be able to unlock this one. Too bad. It looked nice.
[doublepost=1505407761][/doublepost]
Not that. So many households have no landline anymore, that the cell phone is the only phone in the home. MY young son has his fingerprint stored in my phone for emergency's. If I can't store his face too, I can't use this phone.

Just give your son the password.

 

[nikaru]

Yes, just like how I concluded that touch ID sucks.

Well, you are alone or troll. One of both. Touch ID works like a dream for me. Havent used the passcode for months now. The moment I touch the home button, the phone is instantly unlocked and ready for use. Fantastic and elegant.

 

[db362]

Suppose I have a laptop on the desk in front of me and the iPhoneX lays flat on the side of the laptop.
Will FaceID work at this angle if I turn my eyes to look at it? or Do i have to hold the phone and "tilt" it so the notch faces me and I look at it and only then the device opens?

Given that IRs move in straight line...I guess it comes down to what is the full angle at which the device is "spraying" the IRs for it to recognize my face at an angle?

 

[Beerstalker]

Apple has said plainly, directly and unambiguously that this is not the case.

Are you sure about that? The only thing I have seen them say about a beard is that it is constantly updating your Face ID recognition points so if you grow a beard, or let your hair grow long it will work. That makes sense, as would the slow changes like gaining or losing weight, getting older, etc.

I have seen nothing where they said a drastic change like shaving off a beard, or shaving your head wouldn't cause issues.

 

[barmann]

Obviously it does. Do you really think Apple would release a security feature that they didn't spend an immense amount of time protecting one's privacy and security over something they didn't have complete faith in?

Yes, they would .
Because they can, and it's a new, albeit useless feature; and they don't care one bit about your privacy, your security . Unless it makes a headline , they take the good ones and try hard to avoid the bad ones .

You don't really believe Apple makes its money by selling iPhones, do you ?
User data and content, control and sale thereof, it's their bread and butter .

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

What about it?

Will it still work? That's a lot of potential clutter.

 

[44267547]

Yes, they would .
Because they can, and it's a new, albeit useless feature; and they don't care one bit about your privacy, your security . Unless it makes a headline .

The above quote is utterly false and not true. Apple does value the security and privacy for the consumer. If they didn't, then they wouldn't invest millions into research and development for something they didn't have faith in for Security. But continue to believe what you like.

 

[IGI2]

That's still somewhat of a fail with the process. In comparison, that is generally not an issue with Touch ID (unless your kid is mashing on the home button or something).

I mean it's not a fail for me.

Normally, many people wouldn't carry your phone from some office to the theater, where they would plug it into charger and set straight for some event.

It's similar to TouchID, you never had problem with TouchID, because your phone wasn't the main star in some event, where multiple people would prepare it

 

[IJ Reilly]

Are you sure about that? The only thing I have seen them say about a beard is that it is constantly updating your Face ID recognition points so if you grow a beard, or let your hair grow long it will work. That makes sense, as would the slow changes like gaining or losing weight, getting older, etc.

I have seen nothing where they said a drastic change like shaving off a beard, or shaving your head wouldn't cause issues.

From everything we've heard, it's evaluating your face, not your hair, and can tolerate quite a bit of variance because of the masses of data it is storing about your facial features. Hats and glasses were already described as not interfering. I imagine one of the tests someone will try once this phone is public will be to sacrifice a bushy beard to truth out Apple's claims. So what's the worst that could happen, you'd have to retrain it after? They are saying not by my understanding, but worst case scenario, where would be the pain and agony in having to do that?

 

[laurim]

I doubt this is a big issue, but in some of the demo videos after the show, they showed someone pointing the phone at the face of the owner and unlocking the phone. I guess a thief could steal your phone, point it at your face for a fraction of a second and take off with your unlocked phone.

[doublepost=1505424111][/doublepost]How often does an iPhone theft happen with the owner RIGHT there that close?

 

[austinted]

What exactly is it you want to do with your phone when you unlock it in its dock while driving? Read an email?

GPS keeps screen on all the time. Changing songs can be done without unlocking the phone.

Also, if you have an Apple Watch you can set your phone to stay unlocked while connected to the watch.

For example, pressing the dial button on a conference call autodial app. Seems like staying unlocked is prevented by my corp security profile.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I have this feeling that Apple worked closely with Walt Disney Imagineering on developing Face ID. After all, WD Imagineering does a lot of work for their own movie studios, including creating facial mask designs.

 

[chr1s60]

Well Touch ID won't work if you have gloves so..

A lot more people wear sunglasses than gloves.