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Why are you presuming software currently written for Mac Pros would not be updated to take advantage of the new Mac Pro's compute power?

Why would you assume it would be updated?

Obviously you've never dealt with Steinberg and don't know what you're talking about.

Software development on that scale requires planning. If this scenario is correct, Apple is asking devs to re-write massive amounts of code to take advantage of a machine that relatively few users will even buy at launch. In doing so they will pull development time away from Windows and development time in implementing their own plans for the software.
 
There is no Apple exclusivity with Thunderbolt. We have an Asus laptop at my work that we use for field production. It has a TB port that connects to an external PCIe box to output broadcast quality video.
It will be a little while before these ports show up on workstations. Like servers, workstation class hardware tends to lag a little bit when it comes to bleeding edge connectivity.

Sorry, I never meant to say that the PC workstations won't get TBolt, just that they don't have them now, and even if they do eventually get it they'll have to answer the same problems that Apple skipped over.

"What is to be done with a port that needs direct MoBo access to the IO and GFX?"

I don't know if that's been answered yet. I had a feeling Apple was going to provide such an answer by building a headless iMac with server parts, then quickly decided that they'd never do it.

I was wrong about that.

Why would you assume it would be updated?

Obviously you've never dealt with Steinberg and don't know what you're talking about.

Software development on that scale requires planning. If this scenario is correct, Apple is asking devs to re-write massive amounts of code to take advantage of a machine that relatively few users will even buy at launch. In doing so they will pull development time away from Windows and development time in implementing their own plans for the software.

We have to remember that some users still live in a world where everything is in lock step with Apple. Not many vendors are, and at times we Apple users have to waits months to years for updates that reflect upon Apple's secrecy. Remember the Intel transition and how long it took Adobe to release CS3? Meanwhile GFX / Design professionals SUFFERED with CS2 running in Rosetta.

I am glad for the sneak peak Apple provided. It will give devs time to make the necessary adjustments to their apps . . . if they want to.
 
what? hypothetically? apple always slowed down their device trough firmwares
that are part of the system anyway.

Yes. They always slow it down. And even in Windows that reads that exact same firmware and has all those fancy reporting tools it is a lie when things look exactly as they should and bench exactly as other Windows boxes with same CPU's but Windows bios instead. In fact usually my Mac is faster than listed Windows computers, go figure. Please take entirety above with a large helping of sarcasm and then stop posting such nonsense repeatedly and get back on topic.
 
Dual Xeon - do we know for sure that a dual version won't arrive?
Nope, but then it seems like something would have mentioned.
My hope is that the next generation will aim to make the boards more modular, at least for the build-to-order side of things, so you can swap a GPU for a CPU if you need the extra general purpose computational power.

I'm not sure how likely that would be for the upcoming first generation, though they may work harder to do it if people push hard enough for one.


One thing that stands out for me with the Mac Pro is that the two GPU boards are identical, yet only one of them has a connector for the internal flash storage; now it could be that there isn't enough bandwidth for two plus the GPUs and various ports and they decided to avoid having to share bandwidth with too many devices. However, it could potentially mean that the GPU board without connector could be swappable for something else.
It's not really much in the way of evidence, but you never know.
 
We have to remember that some users still live in a world where everything is in lock step with Apple. Not many vendors are, and at times we Apple users have to waits months to years for updates that reflect upon Apple's secrecy. Remember the Intel transition and how long it took Adobe to release CS3? Meanwhile GFX / Design professionals SUFFERED with CS2 running in Rosetta.

I am glad for the sneak peak Apple provided. It will give devs time to make the necessary adjustments to their apps . . . if they want to.

In all due respects the software companies have had more than enough time - Snow Leopard was released in 2009 and here we are in 2013 with vendors who still haven't cottoned onto using OpenCL, OpenGL, GCD, let alone planned ahead to migrate from OpenGL 'Compatibility' to 'Core' given that OS X Lion was released in July 2011 and not a single attempt by vendors to have some sort of strategy moving forward. If developers cannot see what the over all trend is by listening to what is being spoken about at the WWDC then I really have to ask why developers are paid so much in the first place given that the only way Apple could be more explicitly would be if they wrote the code for you.

IMHO the biggest failing of Apple is their reliance on third parties when they should be using their cash and buying out the big names, firing their management who made the stupid decisions that held back product development for OS X and push forward with products that are optimised for OS X rather than it being an after thought.
 
Nope, but then it seems like something would have mentioned.
My hope is that the next generation will aim to make the boards more modular, at least for the build-to-order side of things, so you can swap a GPU for a CPU if you need the extra general purpose computational power.

I'm not sure how likely that would be for the upcoming first generation, though they may work harder to do it if people push hard enough for one.


One thing that stands out for me with the Mac Pro is that the two GPU boards are identical, yet only one of them has a connector for the internal flash storage; now it could be that there isn't enough bandwidth for two plus the GPUs and various ports and they decided to avoid having to share bandwidth with too many devices. However, it could potentially mean that the GPU board without connector could be swappable for something else.
It's not really much in the way of evidence, but you never know.

I would need both dual GPU and dual CPU's. Maybe we can get two 10-cores in a diagonal orientation on the MB in a later version?
 
MacPro 2012 faster than MacPro 2013 ?

1. The 2009, 2010, 2012 Mac Pros have one big fan built into the PSU, one big fan dedicated to cooling the PCIe cards, one big fan to suck air over the CPU/memory board, one big fan to suck air out of the back of the bottom of the case and a small fan to cool each CPU; so if you have a dual CPU that's six fans or if you have a single CPU that's five fans. Are we to believe that Apple has been wasting money in the past by using five or six fans? Definitely, not. While it is true that innovation requires thinking differently, but it does not require one completely going foolishly insane. Thinking differently in many aspects may require thinking like one did in the past in another, particular aspect.
2. Putting two CPUs in that tube would just exaggerate the problem. Sometimes one can innovate to the point that they have to think differently in every way and thinking differently may mean going back to thinking like one did once in the past, but not so far back as the Cube completely. One reason why, in the past, Apple didn't didn't give us Mac Pro systems with the absolute fastest CPUs was TDP related. They wanted to give us fast systems that were quiet and cool so that throttling didn't occur often. My suggestion to Apple would be not to abandon the notion that less is often more; so they need to use a Ivy Xeon with a TDP of 115 or less so that they can run one or more of the following CPUs full out:

Xeon E5-2640 V2 : 2.0 GHz, 20 MB L3, TDP 95 Watts (8-Core) (8 x 2 = 16 GHz)
Xeon E5-2660 V2 : 2.2 GHz, 25 MB L3, TDP 95 Watts (10-Core) (10 x 2.2 = 22 GHz)
Xeon E5-2695 V2 : 2.4 GHz, 30 MB L3, TDP 115 Watts (12-Core) (12 x 2.4 = 28.8 GHz)

because of TDP (only one system fan) and steady step up in speed.

3. In building my 2010 Hackintosh (see GB2 score of 40,100 in my Signature, below,) the issue I faced was thermal dynamics/throttling, i.e., how to keep those two Xeon 5680s cool, but run those CPUs fast. At first, I tried overclocking them greatly (but that just made the problem worse) and then I tried overclocking them less and less until I arrived at the idea of underclocking them to run them at speeds of under 2.5 GHz at idle, but magnifying their TurboBoost potential so that they had turbo bins of 13, 13, 13, 13, 14 and 14 for each 6-core CPU to give me the performance I need for rendering. Then I started to achieve Cinebench 11.5 scores in excess of 24.5 and since I use, among others, Cinema 4d - lighting fast renders. But this one fan nonsense has significant limits, especial when there's no external brick for the PSU because it's also in the cylinder. Like Officer Harry Callahan would say, "One's got to know his system design's limitations" and I'd add: "and work around them."

4. Titans cards would have to be modified to be useable; I like this (my Tyan-based WolfPackAlphaCanisLupus0 and am thinking about building another one):

Here is my GeekBench record- does that mean that I'm faster than the new MacPro 2013 ? I have to try the same GeekBench with Mac OS X 10.8.4 again...will it change?
 

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If this scenario is correct, Apple is asking devs to re-write massive amounts of code to take advantage of a machine that relatively few users will even buy at launch.

Optimizing to take advantage of openCL isn't limited to just these machines. And it's also available on windows. Of course it's not used much in audio yet, but Apple isn't afraid to try and shake things up.
 
You know it would be interesting if Apple had two MacPro's in the lineup. After releasing FCPx and killing FCP7 at the same time you think they might have learned...

Release this new MacProMini as is. Also release a standard MacPro in the old case. The older cased MP would just have a updated motherboard, new CPU's, PCIe3.0, SATAIII, USB3 etc.. Let's say it doesn't have Thunderbolt though. Just basically a old MP with new guts.

So both machines are available at the same time.... And are comparably priced.... Which sells better?
 
Dual Xeon hackintosh would be the way to go... too bad the people who could really use the power can't go that way due to legal and support issues.
 
Optimizing to take advantage of openCL isn't limited to just these machines. And it's also available on windows. Of course it's not used much in audio yet, but Apple isn't afraid to try and shake things up.

"Shaking things up" shouldn't be anywhere near professionals who use these machines to earn their livelihood. Look at the FCP mess, pro users took a look at that shake up and told Apple in no uncertain terms what they could do with their new software.

I'm still having to do extra work to finish projects containing plugins lost to the PPC/Intel switch. Pro users need continuity.
 
I suspect this (and next) and the years in which the Hackintosh community explodes. Since I decided to take the Hackintosh leap, several of my friends have built them too.

It's really not that difficult, it might seem intimidating at first but there are plenty of step by step guides:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php

With a Hackintosh, you can essentially get your next gen Mac Pro today on a price level that is reasonable.

My system is somewhat conservative and I get a GB 32bit score of close to 21000, but I also spent about $1500 on my machine..the equivalent of a (low end) iMac. My Hackintosh runs circles around my 8-core 3ghz Mac Pro, renders are on the average twice as fast and it's extremely stable compared to my old computer.

Seriously, if you love OS X and the Apple ecosystem, and you have professional needs, the Hackintosh community welcomes you with open arms.
 
I would need both dual GPU and dual CPU's. Maybe we can get two 10-cores in a diagonal orientation on the MB in a later version?

That's just wishful thinking. I don't see any way of throwing another processor in there without modifying the case/design. Just look at the pictures and how much room that socket and the 4 dimms take up. And you're going to try and double that?
 
That's just wishful thinking. I don't see any way of throwing another processor in there without modifying the case/design. Just look at the pictures and how much room that socket and the 4 dimms take up. And you're going to try and double that?

It looks like two sockets in a diagonal orientation would fit...
 
Here is my GeekBench record- does that mean that I'm faster than the new MacPro 2013 ? I have to try the same GeekBench with Mac OS X 10.8.4 again...will it change?

Yes, and if that geekbench really is 32bit it might work out slightly faster, but at the cost of internal storage, internal expansion, RAM ceiling, and graphics interchangeability. I wouldn't trade yours for it for any reason at all.
 
Congratulations - that's an excellent score. You're shepherd material.

Here is my GeekBench record- does that mean that I'm faster than the new MacPro 2013 ?

"Yes" for now. But probably "No" if/when Apple solves the TDP issues, but not far enough behind to give a second thought to purchasing a 2013/2014 Mac Pro.



I have to try the same GeekBench with Mac OS X 10.8.4 again...will it change?
Not likely by much.
 
yes, 1x fan

Why all the comments about thermal problems? What does the quantity of fans have to do with anything? The big heat producers are 3rd party chips with very clear TDP documentation. It's not hard to design a cooling system that will pull heat off these running flat out 24/7, any machine that doesn't is not fit for purpose.

Ps. Imagine what they could have done with a nice simple box... Faster, cheaper, expandable, rackable, etcetc. Ignoring intel's product gimping of core density and vtd-io (wrong hardware for a serious hypervisor host though) etc, personally I think that single cpu Xeon machines are pretty pointless.
 
THIS IS COMING FROM A MAC PRO WHICH IS 1/8 IN SIZE OF THE CURRENT MAC PRO!

CAN'T INNOVATE MY ASS INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry i had so say this...:eek:

Euh ok....but who cares about size. I care about performance for all i care they could have kept the original case, its sitting under my desk anyway.

this new mac pro is obviously one of Ive's wet dreams screwing everything up and taking his "it needs to be small and minimalistic" ideas to an extreme.

Mark my words, this MP is going to be a failure...the size is just plain ridiculous, are these guys serious?

first time i saw the sneak-peak i was like WOOOW:eek: this is going to be one bad ass machine for pros....then i saw the image of the size in comparison with the current mac pro and i was like ......:confused:......wtf?
 
It looks like two sockets in a diagonal orientation would fit...

It doesn't look that way to me. And even if they did "fit" it's not that simple. Plus, where are the additional RAM slots fitting? Not to mention the additional heat another CPU will create.
 
More and larger capacity ram sticks will add to the hot party

It doesn't look that way to me. And even if they did "fit" it's not that simple. Plus, where are the additional RAM slots fitting? Not to mention the additional heat another CPU will create.

Want to add a Nu-Wave oven to the mix. Just add more and larger capacity ram sticks to dual CPUs. You'll already have that convection and conduction thing going on. All you'll need to add is infrared and you'll be good to go. Render and roast simultaneously. "Can't innovate my ass." Phil, but if you want to truly innovate, transform that heat into electrical power to lower the wall socket draw - can you say, "Win, win, win." Or turn that heat into power for cooling - so, the would hotter it get -> the cooler it actually gets - greatly expanding it's thermal envelop. Another "Win win win." Then you can shout, "Mo money, mo money, mo money."
 
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