Apple's New Mac Pro Won't Be 'Made in USA' as Production Reportedly Moving to China

[arkmannj]

as an interesting hypothetical experiment it would be interesting to see Apple sell 2 versions of some of their products.
1) standard "made wherever" model (likely in China) priced at their regular MSRP
2) Locally made version (here in the USA, made in USA, in GB then made in GB, etc.) that's priced according to the cost difference to make it locally over what it costs in their standard location.

I'd be interested to see how many of us put our money where our mouth is in supporting our own countries vs. saving some money.

 

[Jimmy James]

Do people realise Apple is a company and not a charity?

Apparently not.

Yes. We do. I think coupled with a growing belief that it’s a greedy, overreaching company, focused on profiteering even to the detriment of reliability and everything else. And I think the there’s a growing percentage of people who are tired of it and pulling back. As a result I suspect it’s a company that will see a concerning trend in the direction of its financial performance. At least to the extent that it doesn’t self-correct. It doesn’t need to be a charity to make poor decisions that result in loss of market share and profits.

 

[LogicalApex]

CEOs care about profit margins for this quarter, they don't care about profit margins in next 10 years, so China is attractive.

Yep, this is a core problem for America that needs to be addressed. We need to re-align the interest of CEOs with the long-term interests of any given company. Not 1 or 2 quarters ahead, but much longer.

Otherwise, you get where we are now where major computer manufacturers do very little manufacturing and mostly focus on marketing. In the short term that allows you to push all of the ugly costs off your books for factories, labor, and etc. Long term is leads to loss of competitive advantage and eventually you risk being replaced by your contractor.

Simple case in point is Lenovo swallowing up IBMs computing business and how the computing industry is largely concentrated around Quanta and Compal.

Do people realize that Apple, as an American company, benefits from the strength and stability of the U.S.? Do people think that just maybe it would have some loyalty to the country that allows it to prosper? Apparently some do not.

People have absorbed the misguided notion that the only path is the one we're on. Ignoring the reality that America can be competitive without being hollowed out, but they are unable to visualize how. Sadly, I too wonder if it is too late without intense government involvement and will to correct the current course. Unfortunately, for the US this is the first time we're facing off against a planned economy that understands capitalism so we're severely handicapped. China can order large changes in its economy by fiat and we don't have that luxury here.

 

[beaker7]

$35-42,000.

LOL

The 1.5TB RAM option alone will be north of 50K

128GB DIMMS are not cheap.

75-90 all in.

 

[JPack]

I recall reading an article that the original Macs from the 80's were assembled on an assembly line powered by Macs. That was before the enormous shift to mass production of products in China.

I don't know why Apple can't build an automated factory in North America, heck even in Canada, which is beneficial to US companies based on the currency exchange rate. The movie industry knows that!

Simply because robotics and automation in China is more advanced than in the U.S.

Smartphones are already being built by automation in China.

 

[0388631]

LOL

The 1.5TB RAM option alone will be north of 50K

128GB DIMMS are not cheap.

Oh, at 1.5 TB? No idea. I was going off a more nominal count. 1.5 TB is very scientific focused. Someone on another Apple forum posted the figures for high capacity ECC DIMMs but I can't remember the amount/cost figure right now. It was a day after the Apple announcement. Whatever it costs through a regular retail will be slapped with the Apple premium. Though I wonder if Apple would require a chip making their RAM proprietary. This is something some PC pre-builts did a decade back. A small chip on each stick authorized its use with the prebuilt.

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations offers up to 6 TB of RAM and 4 sockets for up to 256 cores. This is future proofed. I don't recall any server board where you can stick say 4 future Epyc processors with 64c each or find a dense enough ECC DIMM to saturate the 6 TB maximum allowance figure.

 

[Pressure]

Apple has announced they are moving 7,1 manufacturing to China from the flextronics factory in Texas. Perhaps the $6000 price tag included the expected 25%-33% tariff on the Chinese manufactured goods?

So you are saying it will be cheaper in Europe?

Jokes aside but you can kill that thought.

 

[startergo]

If I were Trump I would charge them 50% tariffs for this move.

 

[mikethemartian]

Free market vs corporate greed.

Kirstin Gillibrand?

 

[beaker7]

Oh, at 1.5 TB? No idea. I was going off a more nominal count. 1.5 TB is very scientific focused. Someone on another Apple forum posted the figures for high capacity ECC DIMMs but I can't remember the amount/cost figure right now. It was a day after the Apple announcement. Whatever it costs through a regular retail will be slapped with the Apple premium. Though I wonder if Apple would require a chip making their RAM proprietary. This is something some PC pre-builts did a decade back. A small chip on each stick authorized its use with the prebuilt.

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations offers up to 6 TB of RAM and 4 sockets for up to 256 cores. This is future proofed. I don't recall any server board where you can stick say 4 future Epyc processors with 64c each or find a dense enough ECC DIMM to saturate the 6 TB maximum allowance figure.

For referenece right now Dell is at $46K for a 12 dimm 1.5 TB upgrade or $92K if you want to go with 24x128GB for 3TB.

 

[0388631]

Damn theyre so low. 8 core for $5000. Heard of the 9700k? Lmao. $500. Not xeon but pretty damn comparable in performance.

Instruction sets. Some stuff is benefited from using a Xeon over a normal processor. Xeons are also built to withstand long high usage operating hours.

2080ti = $1500. Rips anything in Apples line up, even if you underclock it lol.

This is an NVidia problem with them screwing over OEMs.

They could make a system far superior for lower. Who has ever needed 1.5tb of ram haha

Science community.

 

[LogicalApex]

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations offers up to 6 TB of RAM and 4 sockets for up to 256 cores. This is future proofed. I don't recall any server board where you can stick say 4 future Epyc processors with 64c each or find a dense enough ECC DIMM to saturate the 6 TB maximum allowance figure.

Dell, and I'm sure others too, makes servers that have at least this level of RAM and processor density. That being said, you wouldn't put Windows 10 on them I'm sure and would instead jump over to Windows Server.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/povw/poweredge-r940

4 socket server with a max RAM density of 6TB.

 

[0388631]

Dell, and I'm sure others too, makes servers that have at least this level of RAM and processor density. That being said, you wouldn't put Windows 10 on them I'm sure and would instead jump over to Windows Server.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/povw/poweredge-r940

4 socket server with a max RAM density of 6TB.

For a SERVER, yes. Windows Server has a core limit. Excess cores equals more money charged. Workstation is workstation usage. Also, this is Windows 10 Pro for Workstation. It is not the same as Windows 10 Pro.

Also, just to further expand, Microsoft requires Server to be licensed for 16 cores. If you've got more than 16 cores, you need to buy additional licenses. There's usually an offset between cores you have and cores you've licensed. In other words, you could have 256 cores, but have licenses adding up to over 300 cores for that one machine. Licenses are tied to the individual machine.

 

[LogicalApex]

For a SERVER, yes. Windows Server has a core limit. Excess cores equals more money charged. Workstation is workstation usage. Also, this is Windows 10 Pro for Workstation. It is not the same as Windows 10 Pro.

Oh, I'm well aware of the differences. I was responding to you saying that you haven't seen a server board they had the density to hit the 6TB RAM limit. That server has a board that meets that criteria. Additionally, you can install Windows 10 Pro for Workstation onto the R940. I doubt anyone would want to though since Windows Server supports up to 64 sockets (w/ unlimited cores) and 24TB of RAM.

 

[0388631]

Oh, I'm well aware of the differences. I was responding to you saying that you haven't seen a server board they had the density to hit the 6TB RAM limit. That server has a board that meets that criteria. Additionally, you can install Windows 10 Pro for Workstation onto the R940. I doubt anyone would want to though since Windows Server supports up to 64 sockets (w/ unlimited cores) and 24TB of RAM.

Ah! By that I meant server grade workstation boards that have ECC comparability built in. Though in general 4 socket boards seem to be very OEM unless SuperMicro has put out new toys in the last few years? I don't believe the boards in a Z8 from HP are as of high quality like their actual servers. I'm inclined to say the component quality on the boards is higher on the server than on the workstation.

The licensing costs on Windows Server is insane if CDW et al. prices are anything to go by. The Windows 10 Pro for Workstation seemed like a money grab at first, especially because it was OEM only, but then Microsoft opened it up for further use. I think it runs about $280-300 depending on where you buy it, which is cheap considering you get updates for life or however long they decide to keep Windows 10.


Windows 2019 Server on a 4 socket Epyc build with 256 cores will cost roughly $16,000. Money grab or not, Windows 10 Pro for Workstation allows for easier access to an OS and more work to be done and cheaper in costs down the line.

 

[Nipommu]

Productions will eventually move out of China. For now its going to be China but a LOT of companies are moving away from China due to ill practices and asset theft. Samsung already left years ago, Apple is moving US bound iPhone production to India, etc etc. Even Foxconn the Taiwanese company is looking to move from China and also encouraging other companies to move production elsewhere.

Its going to be major shift and major change of how things work in term of global chain networks. With this said, China's economy is mostly production and if it doesn't have this then their economy will crash and will be pushed back very far down the global influencers' list probably next to Russia. This is not a bad thing as China has too much leverage with cheap production for the world. Too much bargaining power. This needs to be reduced a bit more.

Any business owners on here if you have to mass produce anything, please look at other developing countries as there are many competitive nations with the means of producing at mass. Stay away form China.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

I'll buy one of these new Mac Pros the same way I bought my last one, from a California Design Studio switching back to Windows machines after feeling duped by Apple again. And it will be used, but in awesome shape.

In about 2-3 years, I bet I'll get a base model less than $3000 and can still say I have an Apple Mac used in the creation of a Toy Story movie.

 

[TrentS]

Why not kill two birds with one stone here? Set up a plant on the outskirts of Silicone Valley. Assemble it with low budget small footprint housing. Then transport all the "willing" homeless to this plant/village. Have training provided with those able to pass can become assembly workers, and those failing can do other low maintenance around the compound.

Made in America by ones who were once jobless and homeless!! : )

 

[VictorTango777]

Instruction sets. Some stuff is benefited from using a Xeon over a normal processor. Xeons are also built to withstand long high usage operating hours.

I thought the main advantages of Xeon over Core processors were:

1. Support for multiple CPU sockets. Since the current and future Mac Pro have moved to single socket, this support becomes less relevant.

2. Support for ECC memory. Does any Core processor support ECC memory?

 

[HappyIntro]

iReality85 said: ↑
"I get that manufacturing (even just assembly labor) in the US is high. But why not set up shop in Mexico?"

Have you gotten to know our President? I sincerely doubt that would ever come to fruition. Aside from that, you'd have trouble keeping costs low even in Mexico. If Ford wanted to, they'd assemble cars in India, and not Mexico. Far cheaper in India.

FWIW, my Lenovo ThinkStation P510 with Xeon CPU and ECC memory is "Made in Mexico. Components made in China." according to the packaging that it came in. Thanks to NAFTA there is probably several advantages to this setup. Maybe Apple could do something similar in the future, who knows?

 

[Schizoid]

Well at least they’ll get all eight they sell over in one shipment.

 

[mikethemartian]

Why not kill two birds with one stone here? Set up a plant on the outskirts of Silicone Valley. Assemble it with low budget small footprint housing. Then transport all the "willing" homeless to this plant/village. Have training provided with those able to pass can become assembly workers, and those failing can do other low maintenance around the compound.

Made in America by ones who were once jobless and homeless!! : )

Maybe Apple can pay Jony Ive’s new firm to design a seastead for them.
[doublepost=1561761386][/doublepost]

Who has ever needed 1.5tb of ram haha

I needed it last month trying to do a FDTD simulation of a 6 cm long spiral optical waveguide.

 

[0388631]

1. Support for multiple CPU sockets. Since the current and future Mac Pro have moved to single socket, this support becomes less relevant.

This is chipset dependent. It's very possible, but Intel and just about any chip manufacturer prefers to segment product lines. Also it costs more as you're also physically adding more to the board. However, this was blurred back in 08 when Intel released Skulltrail. Way ahead of its time.

2. Support for ECC memory. Does any Core processor support ECC memory?

This is chipset and memory controller dependent. In other words, no. Again, segmentation.

Though if you need Xeon and aren't concerned with mission critical work (hobbyist), then it would be infinitely cheaper to grab a decommissioned server or workstation. You can even grab ECC RAM or CPUs for cheap. You can even buy high end RAID cards refurbished.

I recently bought a new one which set me back several hundred. I wanted something new because I'd be building a NAS with around $5,000 worth of hard drives in it.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

While I understand your outrange, I don't think it is justified. Apple is a multinational company. They sell computers world wide and all those profits funnel their way back to the US. Seems to me the US already gets the best part of that deal at the cost of every other country.

Then why don't they move their headquarters and r&d to China or Mexico or wherever else they do manufacturing?

And all their profits don't come back to the U.S. They use overseas shelters.

 

[Shirasaki]

There goes many people’s hope of Mac Pro “made in USA”, despite already hefty 25% tariff. I once heard someone telling me a country should have some sort of manufacturing capability otherwise the country would have trouble feeding the people. Smaller European countries might disagree, but USA should Have some level of manufacturing capabilities.
Speaking of which, “made in Australia” is rarely seen today either.