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macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2001
WA state
Reply to do the math

Look, you say a 20 gig hard drive is $199, ok, but thats a computer hard drive, the 5 gig in the iPod is a small portable hard drive, the smaller, the more exspensive, look at laptops and you'll understand. BTW, if your paying $199 for a 20 gig, your paying too much, up here, we don't pay over $150 for a 40 gig. Also, that %50 buck mp3 player is probally crap, how much memory for storage does it have? Not 5 gigs, and if it can be exspanded, which cheap ones like that usually cant, it still can't go to 5 gigs Also, its battery life would probally suck, and it most likely isnt firewire.

What I'm saying here is that the iPod is quality, yes it would be nice if the price was lower, but, thats not the case, in all actuallity, for what you get with the iPod, all of its features, $399 is probally a real good price, look at the Rio's for instence, yes, they are cheaper, but cheaper in features as well, the $399 price tag for the iPod is justified. Have fun. BTW, I am totally excited about this, the iPod rocks, and this is only teh beginning of Apple's new products, Long Live Apple.


On a slightly diferent note - while everyone was on that cat foom in the minutes before the iPod was introduces, someone pointed out that on the Japanese Apple site there was the 'AirMac'. Is this just the Japanese version of AirPort? It looks like it.

Also, it said somewhere beforehand that the iPod was to be the first in a long line of Apple's digital hub products. What's next? Any ideas? When's it coming out?


macrumors member
Jul 16, 2001
enraged? not me

Wow guys. I have to say I side with those who like the product.

For those hoping for a PDA and enraged that you didn't get it, it seems like you are in the minority. Some of the people on this board are saying that it's simply obvious that Apple should come out with a $200 pda instead of throwing another PDA into the market.

Hmm.... the PDA market is as equally full of options as the MP3 market.

There's very little money to be made from PDA's. It's a hard industry to get in to. The markup on them is pennies.

But everyone's an expert aren't they, you have done the market research, you know exactly where Apple missed the mark.

Did you ever consider that you might not be in apple's target market? I don't think I am. I don't have enough cash. I still buy apple's products though. I just can't get exactly what I want.

The iPod is adequately priced. The 1.8" drives they put in them are very expensive. There's a new pocket drive (5GB) coming out soon called the Firefly. Suggested retail price: $399. Max capacity at this point for the 1.8" ones: 5GB.

Quiet Music should be played
Over the Rhine

Coffee Talk

Talk amongst yourselves

More food for thought:

With 32Megabytes of solid state cache, the iPod has 20 minutes of skip protection. (oh yeah, and HD's are less likely to skip than their optical based counterparts)



....I hink some people are missing the point. We are Mac users, right? We do pay a little more for beter stuff. No? We do like things like solid integration, great I.D., and leading edge technology. Right?

I ordered one at 11:02pdt. Why? Well, its does everything all in one package. Lets say you are going on a trip. Need to some tunes. Grab the iPod. Don't forget tot ake those digital photos you were gonna have printed at the high-res photo printer (or that paper you needed to print out, or the file your buddy wanted a copy of, or that short movie for grandma). Still, just need the iPod. Oh yeah, its a long trip, 6 hours, I guess. Still only need the iPod.

Well, if you were going with the competition, you would need the Nomad, some extra batteries (maybe a recharger), plus you need the external FW hard drive. Guess you'll need a big bag to put all that in.

Or you could drop the whole thing in your shirt pocket.

Here is what I have found- the smaller and easier to carry around and use a product is, the more often it gets used. It the reason why small cameras get used more than big cameras.

I have a very nice Canon EOS setup that I use only for for serious work. I also have a nice little Canon Digital Elph that gets a lot of use because I can stick it in my pocket. I take it places I would never take a bigger camera. It was almost as expensive as the body of my SLR, but it gets a bit more use. So, its a relative better deal. Cost same: used more.

The same with the iPod. Its gonna be a geat product becasue it is multi-purposed and unobtrusive.

Although I agree the price is a tad dear. $329 would be more reasonable.

Anyhoo.....I can't wait for mine to get here.

oh no, its that PC guy

Bravo cooter!

I wholeheartedly agree cooter. (and I've had my eye on eye on a Canon super portable dig. camera for a while myself. It will get so much more use than the bulky Olympus I currently use)

The iPod: Smaller, faster, maybe not cheaper, but definitely better.

oh no, its that PC guy

PC Compatible?

Has there been any word on whether the iPod will be compatible with PC's? I've checked the iPod site and called the Apple store in Plano, TX, but neither could say.


macrumors member
Aug 31, 2001
St. Paul, MN
Nomad, 20Gig....

Hey I just saw today that Creative Tech. has a Nomad Jukbox with a 20 Gig drive! Wow! that's 4,000 songs. Now thats more like my CD collection. I wonder how compatiable it is with iTunes. Does anyone know? Has anyone used one? I was in the market for an MP3 player recently, and I thought I was gonna go Compact flash, 'cause then I could use the same media in my camera as well. As much as I love the iPod and love Apple, a 20 Gig MP3 player for the same price (although heavier) sure does look attractive.


Re: and another thing

Originally posted by myassmuh
i'm not expecting a $200 time machine, but damn, why can't i have a $200 ipod. or even better a $50 or $100 dollar product that can expand userbase and introduce people to the apple product line. want people in the stores? try offering a deal, steve.

The $50-$200 MP3 player market is already well populated by cut-throat manufacturers who are either losing money or operating on razor-thin margins, producing lackluster under-powered devices with clumsy interfaces.

Now, what does Apple have to gain by putting out yet another under-powered device (64MB flash, for example) at a financial loss? Just because that's what you want to pay for a kick-ass device doesn't mean that it's financially feasible (or prudent) to do so. Besides, they would just be roundly criticized for putting out an under-powered piece of crap.

Apple's market has traditionally been putting out products that are well thought out and well integrated. That's their niche. As in many other industries, the really well-done products cost more.

Miniaturization costs more. Directly related proof: compare the price per gigabyte of 3.5" and 2.5" drives. Pretty big difference, yes? The iPod has a really small drive that cost Apple more $$$. Their innovation was getting the whole device down to a reasonably portable size. Yes, that meant compromising storage (i.e. not using a 20G drive) but for that sacrifice you get a device that's way more portable.

If you don't like the price/portability trade off (and I submit to you that _any_ manufacturer would have to make this price/performance trade-off) then nobody is stopping you from buying a cheaper, less-capable device or even a cheeper, less-portable device. More power to you!

Apple simply saw a segment of a crowded market that no one was filling (disk-based, but still portable) and filled it to the best of their abilities. It's a cool product, and it may not fit everyone's taste. That's why the market has so many players -- theres an MP3 player out there that's right for _you_. Don't trash Apple just because they don't happen to meet your personal needs.


macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2001

to screamingbeaver, that nomad may be nice but with it's usb connection it would take 46hours to fill up, is hard to use, kills batteries, and is very bulky, and id like to see a trip where ud be away from your computer so damn long that ud need 4,000 songs.

anyway im very pleased and impressed with the ipod, i think it is a great product that flaunts Apple's supperior design and quality. How good is that commercial too!??!!!! I wish I had the money to get one, but with the cost of of HD's I can see how they had to keep the high price. I'm hopeful that it will be a strong seller for apple this quarter although it's a very difficult time to sell. I think about 1/4th of all apple users will get one, and hopefully consumers will adopt it as well. The only thing im really concerned about is steve's comment to maybe bring it to the wintels further down the line. this is a scary thought, and it would defeat the whole purpose of swithching over too a mac. oh yea, and how cool is that new itunes with the equalizer, good ****.



Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
Originally posted by mikedman

But it doesn't store 5Gb of music does it? Just like I said. What's your point then?
you are right it stores 20Gb which is 4x as much

Ummm... no. It works as a FIREWIRE drive. And it's an mp3 player, not an external HD. THAT'S what is so awesome. And no other mp3 player does this. What's your point then?
I was refering to the device on thinkgeek
from their site:

"With a whopping storage capacity of 20 GB you can carry the equivalent of over 500 CDs! In addition, the Jukebox Studio 20 is a fully functioning USB Hard Drive. With its hot swappable, plug-and-play, USB connection, you can conveniently store and take along personal files, along with all your favorite music selections. "

Oh I thought we were discussing the wat against the Taliban... wtf
well i was refering to this:

You are all a bunch of imbecile crybabies. I bet you haven't even gone over the specs and all you can do is whine and cry because you didn't get a Newton. Get a life! I bet all you do is troll Mac bbs' critizicing Apple and how they can NEVER meet your stupid way out of this world expectations.
If calling people names makes you feel better go ahead, I have always been one of apple's biggest supporters. I was just hoping that when apple dove into a new market segment they would adopt the practice of enabling you to do something you can't with the competition, at a price that is better or at least competitive. This practice has been working pretty well with computers.

In your opinion it's not groundbreaking. But fact is it is, since it brings revolutionary technologies and innovations into the realm of mp3 players.

point taken. After reading into the power saving and hard drive wear-and-tear saving abilities I have more respect for this product. As is often the case with apple stuff the best features are not always the heavily hyped ones. I think when apple gets the price down 50 to 100 bucks they will start to sell like hot-cakes (I am not exactly sure how hot cakes sell but whatever).

-Slightly cooler?- Give me a break. If you can't see the amount of innovation and potential in this thing in the area of portable digital music devices it's no wonder you are laid-off.

aahhh yes, personal insults are good. My experience in the area of portable digital devices comes from USING them. As a user I don't see my experience being much improved with apples product. I suppose I should concede that I have pretty much stoped using mp3's as of late and switched to mini-disc. If apple really wanted to justify $399 for this nifty little thing they should include a high bitrate mp3 record mode. That would be groundbreaking.

-btw after reading the newest story on macrumors I am starting to understand why the price is so high. Maybe in a couple months things will come down a bit.

oh no, its that PC guy

PC Compatibility

The only thing im really concerned about is steve's comment to maybe bring it to the wintels further down the line. this is a scary thought, and it would defeat the whole purpose of swithching over too a mac

Well. There's no doubt that the PC market is huge, so I think Jobs has the right idea. To get the product to PC users who like apple's industrial design (aka M.E.S. - Mac Envy Syndrome).

I heard that PC compatibility isn't planned untill next year, but I hope Jobs gets it out before Christmas. (For his sake and for mine)

Either way, I can't wait untill the iPod comes to the PC world.

The iPod: Smaller, faster, better.



macrumors 6502a
Aug 14, 2001
iNod to the iPod

O.K. I want one BUT...
I will wait (as many will, I'm sure) for the next generation iPod which will hopefully be a little less expensive and maybe even a little beefier (8 or 10 gigs?). I was waiting for the FireFly and it's really cool that now I can get one straight from Apple (oh yeah - plus an MP3 player...)

My earlier comment about the optical out was (I believe) in regards to a legitimate concern. I know that most portable CD players lack this feature, which is pretty unnecessary when using the unit as a 'walkman.' But it'd really be nice to know that I was getting clean digital playback when I hooked up my iPod to a friend's home system to play mp3's (which are already inferior to CD's in sound quality). My minidisc player does this and I hope the next gen iPod will too. For me, this feature alone would justify the purchace of one at it's current price.


Jul 9, 2000
time will tell

desktop sales are in the toilet in the industry

networking, my field, is a dud and didn't ride well on the WAN and thing, business enterprise networking could only sustain five dollars a share for cisco because that is all it is really worth

high tech has to go somewhere and this may be it...if it is not, then high tech is close to dead right now

maybe biotech is it, maybe back to brick and mortar, it is anyone's guess right now

...i knew tiBook would do well at its introduction but was not so sure about the new iBook, but it did OK even though it looked like a vaio ripoff or an ordinary pc laptop

overall, the price seems a bit high and the product only seems revolutionary for apple and not for the whole high tech field in general...why not 299 or even 249?

i won't try to second guess steve jobs because he is still at apple and doing a decent soon as things look bad, he's out like emilio was, this is business and he knows it as well as the board at apple

Capt Crunch

macrumors 6502
Aug 26, 2001
Washington, D.C.
Re: Toooooo expensive piece of crap!!!

"I said the Cube was overpriced and should cost $1200, this piece of Sh... should cost no more than $90."

Bull. This thing is more advanced than anything on the market. I say $299. A Firewire HD by itslef costs about $300.

"Apple is selling a bunch of overpriced things like the TiBook that won't be resellable for more than $1300 in less than 6 month because it is not upgredable."

How is it not upgradeable? Do you see any other laptops with upgrade capabilities?

"This iPod is for spoil rich kids with insane parents or an Apple fan as fannatic as a Taliban. It has good features but forget about getting it for $399!!!! Never, who gets that thing is a very stupid person."

**** you. **** you to hell. Comparing anyone to the Taliban is a horrible thing to say.

"Steve Jobs is under terrible consuling or is under too much pot. This propusal is not realistic at all. If Apple does something like this again is going down. "

I agree that this is probably a bad business venture.

"This unit may work for an audio engeneer to record some conference or rock band on the field in place of buying a expensive DAT machine, that is the only real good market this machinne is gonna have."

Ummm, no. That fact that you can plug this puppy into any music device will make it a lot more useful. Its getting use in my car, at school, my stereo and on the run.


macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2001
screaming beaver... i purchased a 20gb nomad jukebox through ebay for a little under $230. I received the player and put all of my songs on it approx. 3400. they took forever to transfer from my computer to the plyaer and then i had problems copying them from the player to another computer. It is confusing and does not include the option to make mulitple play lists. Although the ipod is more and holds less i feel that the features such as being able to transfer 1000 songs in about 10 minutes as opposed to five hours with usb makes things alot more convenient. Also the nomad often malfunctions, runs out of batteries(even when it has been charging all ), and takes forever to start up with that many songs on it. Although it is a great player i don't think it is even comparabale to the new ipod. Teh ipod has a good lcd screen which can light up...very useful feature...good method of searchign through songs ...the scroll wheel thing...multiple customizable playlists, 10 hour battery life, nice earphones, tiny size, quick firewire connection and damn it looks good. I am unsure of why it is getting such a bad wrap, granted it may be pricey, or only hold 1000 songs....oh god....but overall i would spend your money on an ipod. Well if it's gonna be that type of party i'm sticking my dick in the mashed potatoes

Oh m iGod


It's a shame that Apple doesn't have market awareness and released that yet again, has "missed the boat" before spending R&D, time and money on creating this now-novel audio device. You'd think they would've learnt from omitting CDRW drives from their machines a few years ago. Sure, it's got the largest capacity for it's size-class on the market, but I don't think that's enough to be called "revolutionary", albeit something which could even attempt to steal thunder from MS's XP release this week.

All I can say is that I'm really disappointed. So much hype and anticipation that it was hardly "groundbreaking", moreso "heartbreaking". Actually I'd like to know how they could sensationalise such a product which is hardly new, apart from the "add-on" technologies such as internal hard-drive (which I'm assuming is a 2.5" Travelstar or similar - is it robust enough to the impact of everyday bumps and knocks, even the occasional drop?) and the FireWire connectivity. I almost see it as re-inventing the wheel. But by the time it hits our shores, the pricing will be around $1000 Australian, which is enough to steer me away from it.. And I'm fairly sure most people would feel the same. If I want a device that will play more than your average 64Mb unit, I'd buy one of those MP3-playing CD units that although aren't as hand-savvy as the iPod, they don't damage the hip pocket so much. It also won't be as sexy as an iPod, but then again, I sometimes think we're being lured and brainwashed to pay for "form" over function: "Sure, it was expensive to buy, but it's made by Apple."

How about inbuilt equalisation and/or bass enhancement - can you customise the sound? Is there a belt-clip on it so you don't have to carry it around like a colostomy bag? Wait a minute, I believe colostomy bags attach to your belt or somewhat. ;)

We need to tell Apple about our disappointment. Email Alicia Awbrey ( whom is the contact for the iPod, amongst other things.
Let them know of our disappointment because I sometimes wonder where they listen to us at all. I'm wondering what this will do to their index..

A total mis-market. What next? Oh heres an idea - what about a mouse with a WHEEL on it!


macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001

Cost of 5gig drive that small retail = $399


Beholder of Truth

Re: iStuffed

The iPod is awesome. I don't see any need to email her.

First you say it's using already existing hardware, then you say they're reinventing the wheel.

Maybe when you stop contradicting yourself your arguments will become more logical.

This device is awesome. You don't have enough to buy it? Don't buy it. Buy your little CD mp3 player. Apple could not keep up with demand if anyone could afford it.

Just like a Ferrari or a BMW. If you can't afford them, get a Toyota.

Sure it's expensive, but it's a Ferrari. Nuff said.


macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2001
It's actually pretty awesome if you think about it

I'm seeing a lot people making silly comparisons to disparate parts that would barely fit in a shoebox...let's be realistic and compare apples to ... well, the current top of the line mp3 device.

Here's the current top of the "pocket sized" portable...

384 MB SonicBlue Rio -  $459.95 :(
- Holds about 60 songs
- USB...slow compared to firewire
- Music only

Here's the iPod at $399 :)
-5 GB ~ 1000 songs at 160kb sample rate
-FireWire - can do 5 GB in about 8 minutes
-Can act as a firewire drive too
-It charges off of the FireWire cord or allows an adaptor to be plugged into the FireWire port so you can plug the whole device into the wall.
- Almost exactly the size of a deck of cards (the RIO is pretty smalll too though)

Just to make a point, the iPod basically costs .39 per song (based on 1000 songs). The RIO would cost $5.90 / song.

There's definately a great value compared to the current market. The unfortunate reality is that I bet Rio hasn't sold too many $459 mp3 players and I bet $399 is a little on the high side of people's speding limits for things like that.

It's exactly what I was looking for in an portable mp3 player but I will need to sell some blood first.



Re: Beholder of Truth

Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
The iPod is awesome. I don't see any need to email her.

First you say it's using already existing hardware, then you say they're reinventing the wheel.

Maybe when you stop contradicting yourself your arguments will become more logical.

This device is awesome. You don't have enough to buy it? Don't buy it. Buy your little CD mp3 player. Apple could not keep up with demand if anyone could afford it.

Just like a Ferrari or a BMW. If you can't afford them, get a Toyota.

Sure it's expensive, but it's a Ferrari. Nuff said.

Beholder of Truth, you're a tool. So you think its okay for Apple to "re-invent" a product (it is still an old idea, yet with higher-capacity and decent connectivity), and throw an Apple logo on it, and that justifies having to spend the additional money just because of the badge? Even if the price were doubled, yet with the same specifications, you'd still believe it was worth throwing your money away for it. It has good features, yes, but the device needs to be more competitive in price. It has to be profitable, yet affordable - it has to sell in volume to make Apple money, and this will not achieve the sales required to pay dividends. Only a select few will buy it. No one but those brainwashed by a fruity logo. You've demonstrated that you're the kind of person who splurges out on designer label clothes, oblivious to the blatant ripoff of the article. What a superficial sheep you are.

And since when is not keeping up with demand a bad thing?

"Nuff said."
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