Apple's Next-Generation A8 Chip Said to Top 2 GHz, Remain Dual-Core

[firewood]

You seriously think the A8 will double the performance from the A7?

Moore's law is variously stated as a doubling in transistor density every 1.5 or 2 years. Some people mis-state this as something related to performance increases per year.

Even so, according to my benchmarks, Apple is at or slightly ahead of doubling the performance of iOS CPUs every 1.5 years, while Intel is falling behind. On the current trajectories, they will cross in a few years (if they haven't already, see below).

With processor increases on the desktop and laptop side slowing down, it could only be another 2-3 years before ARM chips catch and pass "desktop class" chips of the same year.

If you account for the size of the heat sink and need for a fan, the A7 is already at par or possibly ahead of i5 CPUs. The only reason a new MBA or iMac is faster is that its processor was tuned for a fan plus a bigger heat-sink and battery than will fit in an iPhone.

Hypothetically, turn up the CPU clock, memory bus clock and heat output on an top-bin-sorted A8 until it burns your lap like an MBA with a broken fan, and it will possibly benchmark as fast... already.

 

[i4m]

Just give it 16GB of RAM to shut people up for the next years to come..

why 16 and not 17?

 

[Dookieman]

Except we're expecting a 50% increase. That won't make it as powerful as Haswell.

2596/5047- i5 MBA
1370/2477 (Single/Multi) - iPad Air with A7

1370*1.5=/=2596

Does Geekbench for iOS and Mac even measure the samethings? I agree it's ludicrous to think the A8 is even in the same ballpark as an i5 Haswell CPU. These are Desktop CPUs designed for heavy lifting, not a mobile CPU. Also, isn't the ARM Instruction set much small than x86? The stuff you can do with Intel's is probably much greater.

What does "Desktop Class CPU" even mean? I highly doubt its means that it can replace a standard Desktop CPU. Probably referencing a single variable that is close to a CPU and then Apple calling it a "Desktop CPU".

I believe Apple will release the best Mobile CPU at the end of the year, but to think it can power a desktop is far fetched.

 

[bpeeps]

A new phone with a faster processor? A processor name that’s one higher than the previous model? This is MADNESS!

Said in every single phone post about this subject. Original.

 

[iSee]

Safari shouldn't crash because of lack of ram... that's a software issue.

I got curious one day about this assumption people have about how mobile Safari's issues are due to lack of RAM... so I did an analysis which I posted on one of these Safari/RAM threads. It's pretty clear to me the Safari tab reloading issues are due to software issues, not RAM (1 GB is more than enough to hold many tabs worth of content from real sites, even assuming high RAM usage by the OS... yet mobile Safari reloads tabs.)

Unfortunately, the people who are sure RAM will solve Safari's problems ignored this. I guess it's some kind of article of faith with them? Not sure, but it's sad because if more people clamored for Apple to fix mobile Safari rather than clamored for more RAM then its more likely Safari would actually get fixed.

I'm not against more RAM in iOS devices... but it should be worth the cost... having another GB of RAM on the spec sheet is meaningless if it doesn't make the iOS UX better.

 

[iMacmatician]

Mind you, I'm talking about base model MBAs here. Obviously we are a ways off from the higher end MBPr and iMacs being run by A# chips.

I really don't see it as that far-fetched.

The most recent iMac has the same CPU as the base MBAs so if the A8 is used in the MBA then I think the low-end iMacs won't be far behind.

 

[koyoot]

I was under the impression that geek bench 3 was "optimized for iOS 7 and had full 64-bit processor support".

Yes, it supports 64 bit CPU's, but still uses 32 bit instructions. Which does not affect anything other than that benchmark will run on A7.

 

[tuyylihk]

I don't want Quad Core. Useless.
I am happy with the higher speed (and may be same power consumption).
But please, just give us more Ram.
I hate the Safari keep refresh when I switch besides Apps, as I need to check Game Wiki when I am playing and I don't want to take the iPad out (from my bag) when I am on the street.

Thanks to great iOS, even if only added to 2GB Ram, that is more than enough I think... well... before next iPhone come out.

Other spec? I don't care too much.

 

[BvizioN]

Just give it 16GB of RAM to shut people up for the next years to come..

They would need to macke it thick as a brick and fill it up with battery power in order to succeed on that

 

[firewood]

These are Desktop CPUs designed for heavy lifting, not a mobile CPU. Also, isn't the ARM Instruction set much small than x86? The stuff you can do with Intel's is probably much greater.

The opposite.

1. An A7 benchmarks faster than some big-iron supercomputers of less than 2 decades ago ("heavy-lift, as in some weighed more than a ton). The A7/8 are "mobile" because they have been detuned to not burn your hand and/or require water cooling. Otherwise, they can "lift" just as much.

2. The new arm64 instruction set allows both the LLVM compiler and the Ax CPU dispatch/retire unit to optimize performance much more than the very old x86 ISA. The stuff you can do with an Intel CPU is actually less, and eats more power to try.

 

[Michael Goff]

Moore's law is variously stated as a doubling in transistor density every 1.5 or 2 years. Some people mis-state this as something related to performance increases per year.

Even so, according to my benchmarks, Apple is at or slightly ahead of doubling the performance of iOS CPUs every 1.5 years, while Intel is falling behind. On the current trajectories, they will cross in a few years (if they haven't already, see below).



If you account for the size of the heat sink and need for a fan, the A7 is already at par or possibly ahead of i5 CPUs. The only reason a new MBA or iMac is faster is that its processor was tuned for a fan plus a bigger heat-sink and battery than will fit in an iPhone.

Hypothetically, turn up the CPU clock, memory bus clock and heat output on an top-bin-sorted A8 until it burns your lap like an MBA with a broken fan, and it will possibly benchmark as fast... already.

There have only been such huge leaps because ARM was at a low point. It's easier to double a lower number than a higher number. Also, I doubt it'd be as simple as cranking up the A7 to make it a Haswell. Even if, and that's a major if, it was that easy for CPU? You're going to run into trouble with the GPU.

Does Geekbench for iOS and Mac even measure the samethings? I agree it's ludicrous to think the A8 is even in the same ballpark as an i5 Haswell CPU. These are Desktop CPUs designed for heavy lifting, not a mobile CPU. Also, isn't the ARM Instruction set much small than x86? The stuff you can do with Intel's is probably much greater.

What does "Desktop Class CPU" even mean? I highly doubt its means that it can replace a standard Desktop CPU. Probably referencing a single variable that is close to a CPU and then Apple calling it a "Desktop CPU".

I believe Apple will release the best Mobile CPU at the end of the year, but to think it can power a desktop is far fetched.

They didn't really say a "desktop class CPU" if you read the slide. It's a "desktop class architecture". That is, really, them bragging about being 64-bit.

 

[gnasher729]

There are smartphones with octa-core processor (MTK6592) which cost less than $200 without a contract.

Yes, you heard it right: octa-core! for less than $200. stopped real innovation after Jobs death

Combining four really slow 32 bit cores with four not very fast 32 bit cores.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yes, it supports 64 bit CPU's, but still uses 32 bit instructions. Which does not affect anything other than that benchmark will run on A7.

Ah, alright.

Thanks.

 

[gnasher729]

This might be a dumb question but I'm not that knowledgable of CPU's... does this mean that this iPhone will have a faster processor then lets say a Macbook air of a few years back?

The current iPhone is faster than the earliest MBA already. It's about even with a 2010 low-end MacBook. It _may_ be that is in part because there are four years in compiler technology that added improvements that the 2010 MacBook didn't have.

 

[lovewd]

I don't understand why everyone wants 2GB of RAM so bad? Is it just so you can tell all your friends with android phones that you have just as much ram as them?

 

[spjonez]

Even so, according to my benchmarks, Apple is at or slightly ahead of doubling the performance of iOS CPUs every 1.5 years, while Intel is falling behind. On the current trajectories, they will cross in a few years (if they haven't already, see below).

Wasn't that expected from Intel? Lately they've been pushing power efficiency and adding cores not increasing clock rates. ARM will do the same once they reach a certain clock speed. There's a reason we never went over 4GHz and it's not because they can't. Intel is also working towards a 14 nonameter design which is almost 1/2 the size and considerably more complex than any existing ARM design (being CISC vs RISC). ARM will hit the same wall they just aren't there yet.

If you account for the size of the heat sink and need for a fan, the A7 is already at par or possibly ahead of i5 CPUs. The only reason a new MBA or iMac is faster is that its processor was tuned for a fan plus a bigger heat-sink and battery than will fit in an iPhone.

Hypothetically, turn up the CPU clock, memory bus clock and heat output on an top-bin-sorted A8 until it burns your lap like an MBA with a broken fan, and it will possibly benchmark as fast... already.

It's difficult to compare a mobile and desktop processor without bias as they are both designed for specific use cases. While ARM is catching up for multimedia x86 blows it out of the water for complex floating point operations. Try benchmarking a CAD application and tell me how well any ARM chip performs.

That's not to say ARM can't pull ahead, but they are years off matching the capabilities of x86. Putting an ARM chip in a desktop today would be a disaster for power users.

 

[koyoot]

Ah, alright.

Thanks.

Nope. I admit, I checked it right now. It says that Geekbench uses 64 bit benchmarks in tests, however - it looks like it displays them as a 32 bit result.

No idea why...
Maybe it is just because Geekbench 3 does not fully support 64 bits, and was designed to run as a 32 bit benchmark.
Maybe we have to wait for Geekbench 4 to get truly 64 bit benchmarks for this benchmark.

 

[iamPro]

I don't understand why everyone wants 2GB of RAM so bad? Is it just so you can tell all your friends with android phones that you have just as much ram as them?

Has the constant refreshing of safari tabs not been a problem for you?
Its the most annoying thing for me.

Every time I switch to another/previous tab, I dread having to wait for it to refresh and sometimes forget where in the page I last was.

I just hope more rams will take care of this and other ram related problems

 

[iMacmatician]

I don't understand why everyone wants 2GB of RAM so bad? Is it just so you can tell all your friends with android phones that you have just as much ram as them?

Wouldn't they want 3 GB if that were the case?

 

[SmileyBlast!]

No one complains about the speed of the iPhone running A7 as much the lack of battery life. I pretty much have to keep mine plugged in and charging all day at work. Then plugged in when driving too.
So I hope the iPhone 6 with an A8 chip does more for battery life.

 

[\-V-/]

this time they put a 6GB 5400rpm on the entry level model

You're confusing RAM with an HDD. Not the same thing. RAM doesn't have RPMs since there aren't any moving parts.

No one complains about the speed of the iPhone running A7 as much the lack of battery life. I pretty much have to keep mine plugged in and charging all day at work. Then plugged in when driving too.
So I hope the iPhone 6 with an A8 chip does more for battery life.

I don't have to keeping plugged in, but the battery life definitely sucks more than previous models I've had on a consistent basis. Advancements in battery life or a bigger battery due to the larger phone will be much appreciated.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Desktop has zero to do with what is listed below that line. All of those appeared in CPUs that existed long before any of that make it to any desktop system. So they they are not representative of desktop. Merely a particular stage of architecture implementation.

Did you read the article I linked where it explicitly explains why it deserves the "desktop class architecture" moniker?

Apple is using the "deskstop" exactly to get the effect this thread started off with on the quote of "desktop performance". It is also going to stir the pot on OS X going ARM rumors and the rest. In the sense it is terminology to feed the hype machine .... yes it is quite the hyperbole. Because it surely isn't technologically historically accurate. They are only pointing to the previous occurrence not the origins.

The terminology is much more specific than you claim. Again please read the earlier articles from number of places that explain why it's called a desktop class architecture.

 

[Michael Goff]

Nope. I admit, I checked it right now. It says that Geekbench uses 64 bit benchmarks in tests, however - it looks like it displays them as a 32 bit result.

No idea why...
Maybe it is just because Geekbench 3 does not fully support 64 bits, and was designed to run as a 32 bit benchmark.
Maybe we have to wait for Geekbench 4 to get truly 64 bit benchmarks for this benchmark.

I'm about to head back to the house (visited my mom, about 2hrs on bike). If you could explain what that means, I'd be thankful. Why would they say it's 32-bit if it's 64-bit? What does it mean for 32-bit processors and 64-bit? I'm a bit slow when it comes to these things.

 

[0xyMoron]

I don't understand why everyone wants 2GB of RAM so bad? Is it just so you can tell all your friends with android phones that you have just as much ram as them?

Those who want 2GB of RAM are mostly Jailbreakers, adding Widgets, lockscreen animations, themes and various tweaks consumes a lot of RAM, those who run fresh non-jailbroken firmwares don't need it, they have no slowdowns nor are tracking their remaining RAM like some jailbreakers are, in most cases devices shipped with 1GB ram with all the bells and whistles installed are usually left with somewhere between 400 to 500mb to run apps in the background and games, maing it 2GB + the big screen will give jailbreakers more room to add more widgets so it would be ideal.

 

[lovewd]

Has the constant refreshing of safari tabs not been a problem for you?
Its the most annoying thing for me.

Every time I switch to another/previous tab, I dread having to wait for it to refresh and sometimes forget where in the page I last was.

I just hope more rams will take care of this and other ram related problems

It's actually never been a problem for me at all. What are the other ram related issues that you are having?

Those who want 2GB of RAM are mostly Jailbreakers, adding Widgets, lockscreen animations, themes and various tweaks consumes a lot of RAM, those who run fresh non-jailbroken firmwares don't need it, they have no slowdowns nor are tracking their remaining RAM like some jailbreakers are, in most cases devices shipped with 1GB ram with all the bells and whistles installed are usually left with somewhere between 400 to 500mb to run apps in the background and games, maing it 2GB + the big screen will give jailbreakers more room to add more widgets so it would be ideal.

If they can even find a way to jailbreak iOS 8 when it comes out