Apple's Next Mac Mini Refresh: Everything We Know

[fourthtunz]

Well the Mac minis will be as well. Apple's pricing is out of control.

We're at the bleeding edge of technology! I have the m1 MacBook air and its crazy fast!
The mini will be overkill for most as will the iMac.
For the Money that mini will be a killer deal compared to the iMac.
So m1 pro with 32 gigs and 2T of storage..$2800?

 

[theluggage]

It really bugs me that they keep gifting desktop Mac users with USB-A ports, but refuse to put them back in my beloved MBP anymore.

I wouldn't count on the new Mini having USB-A - it's possible, but not a cert. The rendering from Prosser is obviously inaccurate because of the USB-C port spacing (and the reasonable question of 'If Ethernet-in-the-power-brick is such a great idea, why have an ethernet port?')

...also, if Apple are going to go for an external PSU for the Mini (...to me not having a power brick as big as the computer was one of the attractive features of the Mini) then it's probably because they're still obsessed with thinness, in which case I'd expect something even thinner than the Prosser render.

The only "all new" (i.e. not an Intel design with minimal tweaks) desktop released so far is the 24" iMac which is all-USB-C (even the higher-end model with the extra ports).

Nobody seems to know how exactly many ports ore what permutations of TB, USB and PCIe the M1 or M1 Pro actually support - but that is a factor that some people seem to forget about. I suspect the M1 Mini pretty much maxes out the I/O offered by the regular M1 chip. Yes, the 4-port 24" iMac offers 10Gbps USB on the two extra ports vs. the M1 Mini's 5Gbps - but that apparently comes at the expense of the 10G Ethernet option. We don't know for sure if the M1 Pro has a 4th TB4 port hidden up it's sleeve

It could be that Apple has decided that 10Gbps USB support is going to be their personal "line in the sand" for Type C ports. It doesn't have to be - elsewhere, 10Gbps Type A ports exist, and USB-C only requires USB 2 - but I suspect most 10G peripherals have USB-C connectors now.

 

[brofkand]

We're at the bleeding edge of technology! I have the m1 MacBook air and its crazy fast!
The mini will be overkill for most as will the iMac.
For the Money that mini will be a killer deal compared to the iMac.
So m1 pro with 32 gigs and 2T of storage..$2800?

The trouble though is the M1 Pro is not bleeding edge against desktop CPUs where power consumption and heat is less of a concern. Granted you'd have to run Windows (or Linux I suppose) but you can get an AMD or Intel system that would beat the M1 Pro for far, far less than that. And if you're running Adobe apps or something else cross platform there's no real penalty for running Windows.

Now against notebooks - no comparison, M1 Pro wins. But I think Apple needs to release 65W (or more) chips for their desktops. Yes, overkill for many, but not for all.

 

[jerryk]

If it is $1500 for a unit with a pro chip and 16 GB of memory it is an instant buy for me.

I also like the idea of Ethernet in an external power supply. The resulting smaller main unit will run cooler and will fit better on, or in my case under, a desk.

 

[hagjohn]

These threads get tiring very quick. Too many people think they know **** when they don't.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

It really bugs me that they keep gifting desktop Mac users with USB-A ports, but refuse to put them back in my beloved MBP anymore.

Come on Apple, USB-A is far from dead, it's still one of the most common connectors, and is in no danger of dying anytime soon. It's plenty fast enough for zillions of low speed use cases, and much cheaper and simpler to implement than USB-C. I won't be entirely surprised to see it live on for another several decades, as low cost, low speed, devices will simply keep on using it.

Before anyone argues with that, ask yourself why Apple keeps putting them in desktop Macs, including the stonkingly expensive Mac Pro.

USB-A is still the default port, not even a legacy one, because there are almost no USB-C hubs. Once you run out of -C ports, that's it. So it's wiser to just buy -A accessories. Even my -C keyboard only came with a C-to-A cable, ironically.

Apple conceded and put HDMI back in, which was much needed because the dongles never work 100%. I can honestly do without -A in a laptop, but why not just have one.

 

[fourthtunz]

The trouble though is the M1 Pro is not bleeding edge against desktop CPUs where power consumption and heat is less of a concern. Granted you'd have to run Windows (or Linux I suppose) but you can get an AMD or Intel system that would beat the M1 Pro for far, far less than that. And if you're running Adobe apps or something else cross platform there's no real penalty for running Windows.

Now against notebooks - no comparison, M1 Pro wins. But I think Apple needs to release 65W (or more) chips for thei

The trouble though is the M1 Pro is not bleeding edge against desktop CPUs where power consumption and heat is less of a concern. Granted you'd have to run Windows (or Linux I suppose) but you can get an AMD or Intel system that would beat the M1 Pro for far, far less than that. And if you're running Adobe apps or something else cross platform there's no real penalty for running Windows.

Now against notebooks - no comparison, M1 Pro wins. But I think Apple needs to release 65W (or more) chips for their desktops. Yes, overkill for many, but not for all.

Nope not bleeding edge against desktops, but will be interesting to see how the mini will stack up
if they increase clock speed or put a faster processor in it.
I think most Mac users would just love to have the same processors as the MacBook pros
at a less expensive price point. Good times!

 

[sudo-sandwich]

The trouble though is the M1 Pro is not bleeding edge against desktop CPUs where power consumption and heat is less of a concern. Granted you'd have to run Windows (or Linux I suppose) but you can get an AMD or Intel system that would beat the M1 Pro for far, far less than that. And if you're running Adobe apps or something else cross platform there's no real penalty for running Windows.

The single-core score is up there among the top for desktops. Multi-core score is much lower, but everything on the top there has 16 or more cores, which is rarer for a workflow to fully utilize.

I'm not just thinking of single-core workloads. The M1 Max has 8 high-perf cores. In theory should be competitive with other desktop CPUs up to 800% util.

 

[fourthtunz]

If it is $1500 for a unit with a pro chip and 16 GB of memory it is an instant buy for me.

I also like the idea of Ethernet in an external power supply. The resulting smaller main unit will run cooler and will fit better on, or in my case under, a desk.

I hope you're right!
I was looking at the m1 mini 2t drive and 16gigs for $1600ish so who knows.
I have the m1 MacBook air and I can't say that I need more than that other than I'd
Like at least 16 gigs and a larger SSD.
Can't wait to see what they come out with March 8th!

 

[ArrayDecay]

Purchasing a new 27" ~$599.00 Apple display with my new M1 Pro Mac Mini would be delightful. Alas, Apple will probably force me to buy another Dell monitor. ?‍♂️

 

[Maximara]

Actually, the non-Retina iMacs from 2009 to 2013/2014 support target display mode. I used my 2010 iMac for several years this way, and it still works just fine with in 2022 via a mini-DisplayPort input. It even accepts audio over mini-DisplayPort.

The problem arose when 5K Retina was introduced. That high resolution wasn't supported over those versions of the interface.

I still wish there was a way to use an 2013 iMac as your M1 Mini's only monitor without having another monitor to set the thing up.

 

[Maximara]

Plus, in the past computer prices have been pretty much immune from inflation, staying roughly the same price in figures, while specs rose dramatically, I think that we're probably going to have to start sucking up price rises across the board, and not just Apple.

I seriously doubt it. The desktop/portable market is insanely competitive to the point that it is hard to see prices rising across the board. People will just put off getting a new computer which per Supply-Demand 101 will result in lower prices for those new models.

 

[jlc1978]

I seriously doubt it. The desktop/portable market is insanely competitive to the point that it is hard to see prices rising across the board. People will just put off getting a new computer which per Supply-Demand 101 will result in lower prices for those new models.

While I agree with you in principle, the challenge is chip shortages and raising chip prices will drive supply shortages and price hikes, even at the expense of lower sales. Since prices tend to be sticky in the computer market, once supply chain gets sorted prices won't tend to drop.

Apple, in general, has not been known to lower prices in any scenarios.

 

[linrey]

the iMac experience is something you can't reproduce, unless you wanna shell out $6k for a xdr pro display. i still have an apple thunderbolt display that is connected to my MBP, as brightness control is essential... but it's a 10yo device

ALL of Apple's new iMacs need to have the ability to use the display with a MacBook or a Mac Mini. It's really nice to use Minis as headless servers but I always have to manage them at times. Currently, I have 3 Mac Minis sharing a Dell monitor but nobody seems to make monitors with the multitude of inputs I have now.
If there's a Mac Mini in March I may replace my main Intel system and move it down the line to replace one of the others.

 

[dgdosen]

Actually there may be technical reasons why the M1 can't be clocked higher than it currently is (3.2GHz). You can't just "turn up the volts" and get higher frequencies without all sorts of design considerations.

Apple may very well be producing different versions of the M1 Pro/Max with more cores and possibly different design frequencies for desktop machines without the same power and thermal limits.

However, you are probably correct that the Mini is unlikely to be given the fastest processors even if it could support them thermally. The Mini historically has laptop CPUs and is not positioned to have the same options as the best MacBook Pros, which is why there was no Intel i9 version.

That said, a Mini with the same 10/32 core M1 Max SoC as the MBPs would be a pretty serious machine that would probably match the lower end of the Mac Pro configurations (e.g. 8 & 12 core Xeon, Radeon Pro W5500X, W5700X) - for a lot less money, albeit with limited expansion.

I came to this thread wondering what kind of frequencies Apple might use for a "desktop" M1Pro/Max/Max12 mini/iMacPro.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple will use a larger thermal footprint (65W similar to the 2020 Intel Mac Mini? more to match the old iMac Pro?) and see how that translates into performance increases - because stockfish

 

[staypuftforums]

Still haven't seen a guesstimate MSRP on the Mac Mini "Pro". Me thinks "Pro" gives it a $500 bounce. Minimum.

Current high end Intel version of the Mac Mini is $1,099 US. Starting price for M1 Pro version should be somewhere around there, I'd imagine. M1 Max higher. Regular M1 Mac Mini got a $100 price cut compared to the measly i3 Intel model it replaced.

 

[staypuftforums]

I wouldn't count on the new Mini having USB-A - it's possible, but not a cert. The rendering from Prosser is obviously inaccurate because of the USB-C port spacing (and the reasonable question of 'If Ethernet-in-the-power-brick is such a great idea, why have an ethernet port?')

...also, if Apple are going to go for an external PSU for the Mini (...to me not having a power brick as big as the computer was one of the attractive features of the Mini) then it's probably because they're still obsessed with thinness, in which case I'd expect something even thinner than the Prosser render.

The only "all new" (i.e. not an Intel design with minimal tweaks) desktop released so far is the 24" iMac which is all-USB-C (even the higher-end model with the extra ports).

Nobody seems to know how exactly many ports ore what permutations of TB, USB and PCIe the M1 or M1 Pro actually support - but that is a factor that some people seem to forget about. I suspect the M1 Mini pretty much maxes out the I/O offered by the regular M1 chip. Yes, the 4-port 24" iMac offers 10Gbps USB on the two extra ports vs. the M1 Mini's 5Gbps - but that apparently comes at the expense of the 10G Ethernet option. We don't know for sure if the M1 Pro has a 4th TB4 port hidden up it's sleeve

It could be that Apple has decided that 10Gbps USB support is going to be their personal "line in the sand" for Type C ports. It doesn't have to be - elsewhere, 10Gbps Type A ports exist, and USB-C only requires USB 2 - but I suspect most 10G peripherals have USB-C connectors now.

It's 2022. Enough with USB-A ports already. That's 1990s tech. Inferior in every way to USB-C.

 

[Boil]

I hear Stockfish is the codename for the M1 Ultra SoC...

Single M1 Ultra SoC:

• 12-core CPU (12P/0E)
• 48-core GPU
• 16-core NPU
• 256GB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 500GB/s UMA bandwidth

Dual M1 Ultra SoCs:

• 24-core CPU (24P/0E)
• 96-core GPU
• 32-core NPU
• 512GB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 1TB/s UMA bandwidth

Quad M1 Ultra SoCs:

• 48-core CPU (48P/0E)
• 192-core GPU
• 64-core NPU
• 1TB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 2TB/s UMA bandwidth

;^p

 

[Maximara]

While I agree with you in principle, the challenge is chip shortages and raising chip prices will drive supply shortages and price hikes, even at the expense of lower sales. Since prices tend to be sticky in the computer market, once supply chain gets sorted prices won't tend to drop.

Apple, in general, has not been known to lower prices in any scenarios.

Actually, Apple has lowered its prices on occasion. IIRC the M1 Mini was cheaper than the Intel it replaced.

 

[brofkand]

It's 2022. Enough with USB-A ports already. That's 1990s tech. Inferior in every way to USB-C.

When the technology was introduced is irrelevant, really. 8P8C Ethernet is also 1990's tech.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Current high end Intel version of the Mac Mini is $1,099 US. Starting price for M1 Pro version should be somewhere around there, I'd imagine. M1 Max higher. Regular M1 Mac Mini got a $100 price cut compared to the measly i3 Intel model it replaced

AFAIK, there is no current Intel version of Mini on sale, at least not at apple.com. [Edit: oops! it’s at the bottom of the web oage - missed that, ] But if you buy from elsewhere an equivalent cost to the M1 Pro with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD is $1499.

See https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._z0zr_mxnf41_mac_mini_2020_i7_16gb_512gb.html

However, the M1 Mini with the same RAM & SSD, costs $1,099.

Therefore the M1 Pro (with same RAM & SSD) will cost more than the base M1. I would expect it to start at $1400-1500, to neatly replace the 6-core Intel i7 model.

Another way to think of it (probably better) is the take the price of MacBook Pros with M1 Pro and look at historical differences between MacBook Pro and Mini. Again, I would say $500-600 less than the MBP14, which gets you to the same $1400-1500. Hopefully this would be for the unbinned 10/16 core M1 Pro, which would be a good deal, because these currently cost $2300 (with 512GB SSD) in the MBP14.

$1,099 seems very unlikely indeed.

 

[lcubed]

I hear Stockfish is the codename for the M1 Ultra SoC...

Single M1 Ultra SoC:

• 12-core CPU (12P/0E)
• 48-core GPU
• 16-core NPU
• 256GB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 500GB/s UMA bandwidth

Dual M1 Ultra SoCs:

• 24-core CPU (24P/0E)
• 96-core GPU
• 32-core NPU
• 512GB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 1TB/s UMA bandwidth

Quad M1 Ultra SoCs:

• 48-core CPU (48P/0E)
• 192-core GPU
• 64-core NPU
• 1TB LPDDR5X RAM (pin-compatible w/LPDDR5 / 33% faster / 20% lower power usage)
• 2TB/s UMA bandwidth

;^p

stockfish chess mode can be activated as an extra, extra cost firmware option

 

[jlc1978]

Actually, Apple has lowered its prices on occasion. IIRC the M1 Mini was cheaper than the Intel it replaced.

Fair enough. Apple seems to generally introduce higher specs at the same price point vs cutting prices. They’ve never tried to be a price leader. It will be interesting to see what they introduce and at what price point.

 

[Boil]

Everything should be fiber or ultra-high-speed wireless...!

 

[Boil]

AFAIK, there is no current Intel version of Mini on sale, at least not at apple.com. But if you buy from elsewhere an equivalent cost to the M1 Pro with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD is $1499.

Intel Mac mini on apple.com...

$1,099 seems very unlikely indeed.

More like $1,299 when you match the 16GB RAM...

stockfish chess mode can be activated as an extra, extra cost firmware option

Okay, Intel...! ;^p