Apple's NFC Ambitions Extend Beyond Apple Pay to Building Security, Transit Ticketing

[rfahey79]

Certainly a better idea than installing ANOTHER app onto your smart device and having to scan a QR code in order to unlock the turnstile.

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I hope when implemented you have the option of turning off touchID for transit turnstyles just to speed things up. Just pass the phone over the surface as you're walking and you're let through.

i would imagine that paired with apple watch you'd just swipe your wrist over the pad and boom.

 

[rsocal]

That's like telling Apple they should fix the United States' health care system, just because they have the Health app. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Well said!!! Great post!!!##

 

[Larry-Bloom]

Nfc

I would love it at the ATM... Much more secure than a Meg Swipe and Pin Number (ATM being used for Skimming all of the time)

 

[bawbac]

FindMyPhone only helps YOU locate your phone. The authorities can track your phone regardless, and have been able to since long before the iPhone even came out. (It's been a mandatory feature since the late 90s)

How can they mandate something in the 90's in which a phone doesn't have GPS for the police to track?
They could try triangulation but that takes a lot of work and resources, in which the police did not have.


To this day, there is no mandate but a lot of discussions on what the police should have available to them to find stolen phones.

 

[darthbane2k]

The problem is Apple have no intention of launching Apple Pay within the UK, so this will never happen.
The infrastructure is in place all over London, the UK and most of Europe, moreso than the USA. If Apple were serious about launching apple pay within the UK, they would have done so by now. There's simply no excuse.

Next we'll see a launch in Canada and that will be it. Like ITunes Radio, Apple pay will be just another of those US only features

I hope they're working with Transport for London on this as London already has full contactless acceptance- you can use a regular NFC credit card directly on the ticket gates. No need to pre-purchase a ticket or top up. He system will even keep track of your spending and make sure it's capped so you'd never pay more than a weekly ticket.

For those who'd rather pre-pay or don't have an NFC card they have an Oyster card that is able to be topped up with cash or card both automatically and manually. The Oyster card can be anonymous if you want it to be (particularly if you top up with cash) as registration is optional.

For regular travelers you can have a monthly or annual travelcard added to Ouster which will give you unlimited travel on tube, bus, tram and rail.

Now if Apple could take the contactless part of the system. Integrate into Apple Pay and encourage the rest of the world to adopt it (remember it's not Apple proprietary) they could do quite well.

 

[Larry-Bloom]

Awesome!
Keep them phones out even more for those "grab N' dash" phone thieves that are ever increasing, especially in transit stops.

*You know you leave finger prints all over your phone, that can easily can be copied with various methods. So now they don't need to know your security code once they have your iPhone.

No method can be 100% un-hackable, but Finger prints are more secure than a 4 digit pin...

 

[djphat2000]

You ASSumption is that EVERYONE turns on FindMyPhone but most people do not because guess what, they don't want to be TRACKED !!!

Then said person shouldn't be upset when there phone gets stolen and they have no way of protecting there personal information.
It pretty much is apart of every setup of the iPhone. If you choose to SKIP it, then that's on the user. Thankfully I don't know anyone that has done that. So if they lose or there phone gets stolen. They are relatively safe.

 

[Slarti.BartFast]

Apple is getting creepier than Google

One device to rule them all.

So if I go down Apple's path one device will have all my spending, travel, sleeping time, time I went to work, time I went home etc.

It will be accessible, it will be hacked and it will probably be stored in the US, a country I visited once 10 years ago.

If you went back in time 10 years and told people that in the future people would queue outside a shop overnight to pay hundred of pounds for a device that would track their every action and thought they would have put you in the nut house !

How can you be so trusting ????

 

[octothorpe8]

I love mocking people who fumble around for 30 seconds for bus change.

But seriously, I've had to replaced too many cards that were "damaged". Nfc would be a great alternative.

Same. I also HATE HATE HATE how you have zero way of knowing what value, if any, a Metrocard has without going underground — so your wallet always has two or three mystery cards in it at all times because you're afraid of throwing one away. Makes me kind of miss the total transparency of the token (which you could sometimes use as currency back in the day).

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Therefore my question: Why wasn't NFC included in the iPhone 5s?
They knew that NFC will be needed in a future iPhone (and "future" here is defined as one year). So, why not including it??

Calm down. I have a 5S and my phone upgrade comes in next year about this time. At that point I'll get a 6S or whatever and Apple Pay will (or will not) have become ubiquitous enough to make it worthwhile. Meanwhile, guess what: I have plenty of easy ways to pay for stuff -- including cash, which still works just fine, thank you very much.

 

[dannyyankou]

Same. I also HATE HATE HATE how you have zero way of knowing what value, if any, a Metrocard has without going underground — so your wallet always has two or three mystery cards in it at all times because you're afraid of throwing one away. Makes me kind of miss the total transparency of the token (which you could sometimes use as currency back in the day)

Haha, this is exactly how my wallet looks. I have 3 metrocards sitting in there that I have no idea what the value is.

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

That is not how it works in London. There is a daily Cap. You are charged for each journey you make in a day until you reach the cap and then you are not charged for the rest of the day.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/price-capping

Well - I hate to be *that* guy but I was on the contactless trial so I know what I'm talking about.

Yes, there are daily caps. There are also, more importantly for commuters, weekly caps. This is a feature of NFC/contactless cards only, not Oyster, so it's incredibly relevant to this thread.

Please see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/how-fares-are-charged

"We calculate the best fare for each day or week, depending on where and when you have travelled, by:

Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make each day and applying a daily cap if appropriate
Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make in each week and applying a Monday to Sunday cap if appropriate. For capping, a week always ends on a Sunday, although a cap will be applied earlier if you reach one"

Cheers, all the best.

 

[Keirasplace]

One device to rule them all.

So if I go down Apple's path one device will have all my spending, travel, sleeping time, time I went to work, time I went home etc.

It will be accessible, it will be hacked and it will probably be stored in the US, a country I visited once 10 years ago.

If you went back in time 10 years and told people that in the future people would queue outside a shop overnight to pay hundred of pounds for a device that would track their every action and thought they would have put you in the nut house !

How can you be so trusting ????

Or it could all be your phone... Encrypted by your thumbprint. If you don't trust Apple's security, well then I can't help you.

 

[gavroche]

It was just my way in responding to a post full of impolite sentences.
When you read my post you will see that I combined nice words of admiration for Apple with my criticism and all I get are sentences like "you have ZERO knowledge" or "THEY decide... what's RIGHT or WRONG".
Great.

True, i looking at the posting again i can see what you mean. I think when reading something not as the person to whom such comments are directed, it's easy to not take that into account...
My apologies...

 

[bubbleboil]

Ha, and Singapore has it for what... forever!

and these terminals works with credit cards too.

I am not sure if hongkong's terminal works with credit cards though.


I think US is one of the slowest few country to implement EMV chips, hence these nfc terminals was slowest to be implement. But strangely, Singapore's newest push for mobile payment does not use nfc =X

http://www.dash.com.sg/index.html

 

[haruhiko]

and these terminals works with credit cards too.

I am not sure if hongkong's terminal works with credit cards though.


I think US is one of the slowest few country to implement EMV chips, hence these nfc terminals was slowest to be implement. But strangely, Singapore's newest push for mobile payment does not use nfc =X

http://www.dash.com.sg/index.html

Hong Kong's Octopus card system has been there since 1997 and it can be used not only in subway and trains but also restaurants, shops, and all sorts of stores. Therefore NFC credit card payment is not very popular here.

 

[Mashurrab]

I hope they open up NFC so that other apps can take advantage of contactless payment on other networks, rather than forcing 'Apple's way or the highway'.

Eventually they will. They always take this 1 year to crush bugs and perfect the system.

 

[Ponta]

it would be great if somehow advances in NFC and communications tech make it actually possible for the EMC type of credit purchase (apple pay) could be used for going through the turn-style wicket without purchasing the actual ticket. but this is not possible currently. at least in japan its not currently possible.

...but currently no train or subway ticket system turn-style/wicket system is operating on any post-paid card. they are ALL prepaid systems here. when i asked why (a few years ago) the basic answer was the post-paid system was still too slow. milliseconds slow, but too slow for wicket based post paid system.

Funny--ads showing on the train just this week are showing the use of a credit card tied in with your Pasmo card. Seems to be via Tokyu and some card called "Top&" or something. Not sure about the details, but it shows the Tokyu mascot running out of money at the wicket, then despairing at long lines at the machines to charge the card with more money, then meeting the credit card mascot and sailing through the wicket with the credit card backing him up.

Is that something else completely?

 

[WearsLisboa]

But, there are loyal customers guys like you and me that pay the higher price because we love Apple (in the past when they were small and now, ruling the industry) we know that the products are worth it but looking on this behaviour (also the iPad Mini update) makes me feel bad.
Right now, Apple doesn't treat their customers with respect.

Apple must be careful about not making their customers feel regret. I personally am very disapointed my 5s doesn't have nfc. I will be more cautious about upgrading in the future.

 

[Col4bin]

From the looks of it, they are not doing NFC at all. Some kind of bar code scanning thing. Which will be another application, and another bank account to setup, etc. Not just walk up, and pick card on your phone, and thumb print, GO.

I think it will not do well.

I hope you're right. Some of these retailers are so greedy not wanting to pay a .001 transaction fee to the credit card companies. Granted this does add up, but still, makes a crappier and less secure user experience for the consumer.

 

[ksuyen]

Before the iMac, USB was the "Useless Serial Bus". Apple helped make USB Ubiquitous.

Maybe it can do the same for NFC?

Hopefully. From "No F... Care" Apple would help make NFC ubiquitous.

Australia has Opal, Singapore has EZLink, HK has Octopus, Japan has IC cards... One Apple to bind them all, one Apple to rule. How nice it is to travel around the world with iPhone in the future. Door opens and transports are easy just with one single tap.

 

[BvizioN]

I hope they open up NFC so that other apps can take advantage of contactless payment on other networks, rather than forcing 'Apple's way or the highway'.

On the first year its usually locked to Apple. Like touchID was. I believe it will be open to others with iOS 9.

 

[Tumbleweed666]

Apple must be careful about not making their customers feel regret. I personally am very disapointed my 5s doesn't have nfc. I will be more cautious about upgrading in the future.

The components in your 5S didn't magically get inside it the day before they launched it. It would have had to be designed in a year or more before that.

So they would have had to put an NFC chip, and an NFC reader and a cut out in the back of the 5S phone to accommodate it, despite the fact it couldnt be used at all, up to two years before they even knew they would be launching Apple Pay.

You could sell your 5s right now and get a good trade in value on a 6 if using Apple Pay is so important to you.

But note that if you did, despite all the publicity, its still probably 6-12 months away before there is a real big mass use of it because many retailers are only now rolling out chip and pin terminals that support NFC. So you are complaining about lack of a feature on your 5s that currently can only be used in a relatively small minority of places. If you usually upgrade every two years, and get a 6s in a years time, that really will be the sweet spot for there being a LOT of NFC terminals around and Apple pay being ubiquitous.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

The problem is Apple have no intention of launching Apple Pay within the UK, so this will never happen.
The infrastructure is in place all over London, the UK and most of Europe, moreso than the USA. If Apple were serious about launching apple pay within the UK, they would have done so by now. There's simply no excuse.

Next we'll see a launch in Canada and that will be it. Like ITunes Radio, Apple pay will be just another of those US only features

What makes you think Apple has no plans to launch it in the UK? VISA has already said it's coming to Europe and the UK in 2015. It's then up to banks to accept it.

Apple really need to open it up a little though, here in Newcastle we could do with it replacing tickets on the Metro, just like in London on the Tube and busses. How about when I buy a football (soccer) match ticket for Newcastle I can have it on my phone instead?, the same with season tickets. You can't expect people to doth their wallets/purses if you can't use it on public transport and have to use cash or other means of payments there instead of Apple pay. Public transport especially in cities needs Apple pay support otherwise it will never take off as well it can do.

 

[nebo1ss]

Well - I hate to be *that* guy but I was on the contactless trial so I know what I'm talking about.

Yes, there are daily caps. There are also, more importantly for commuters, weekly caps. This is a feature of NFC/contactless cards only, not Oyster, so it's incredibly relevant to this thread.

Please see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/how-fares-are-charged

"We calculate the best fare for each day or week, depending on where and when you have travelled, by:

Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make each day and applying a daily cap if appropriate
Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make in each week and applying a Monday to Sunday cap if appropriate. For capping, a week always ends on a Sunday, although a cap will be applied earlier if you reach one"

Cheers, all the best.

Your original example gave a travel of £30 on the first day which is not possible with daily capping. Daily capping is going to hit before weekly capping. In trying to illustrate your point you exaggerated the numbers and lost the plot.

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

Your original example gave a travel of £30 on the first day which is not possible with daily capping. Daily capping is going to hit before weekly capping. In trying to illustrate your point you exaggerated the numbers and lost the plot.

It was an example to simplify how capping works - the numbers were in no way meant to be the amount spendable on the network for one day. To reach a weekly cap I would have had to state the maximum cap for each day over a number of days which would have been pointlessly detailed for the majority of readers who are not living in London.

No plot was lost; the essence of how capping works was sound.