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I am not really sure where the entire "you're either with us or against" mentality comes from. It is nice to see a few of the actors on Page 1 again though.

While we are at it, the community is its own worst enemy.

I'm always getting yelled at for criticizing Apple or praising it. I guess it's a sign that I'm neutral.
 
Baloney. How many CEOs leave due to "personal reasons?" Or to "spend more time with family?" Never because they "boinked the VP's wife" or were "utterly incompetent." Companies tend to avoid airing their dirty laundry in public, something you should know working in PR. The "official statement" at Schmidt's departure offers no credible evidence whatsoever about the actual circumstances or internal opinion of the man.

Yap, and a company that thinks that an ex board member had done industrial theft never ever would sue him.

Baloney my ...
 
I consider Microsoft as a huge innovator.

NT Kernel, Windows 7 jumplists, MinWin, Metro, Windows Phone, Office 365, Azure, XBox, Ergonomic natural keyboards, Arc Mouse.

On and on..

active directory, IIS, one of the earliest PDA / Smartphone platforms (even if it wasn't very good).

Some of the first online / disc based encyclopedias, games, network infrastructure technologies (who else doesn't miss Novel's networking). Plug N Pray support..

i think the point is that the list goes on, And On, And On, Microsoft has done more innovation in the Information Technology sector than Apple has ever done.
 
On the left is Windows Mobile, a stylus & keyboard based OS. On the right is Android, a touch-based OS. Hmm, wonder why they would look so different?

The HTC Diamond was a Windows Mobile device and it did not feature a physical keyboard. Not all devices that ran WM featured a physical keyboard either. The iPaq lineup was another great example of a solid device that lacked them. It used Graffiti input.

Those were the good old days .. :.)
 
Case-in-point: the windows phone. It's a touchscreen phone that doesn't look anything like the iPhone.

windows-phone-2012.jpg

OH NOES a candy bar phone running WinMo

i can spot a lot of similarities between it and the iphone, and samsungs phones, and HTC's, and....

I also spot enough difference in most if not all the devices in question.

there are only so many design elements you can do and use when you've narrowed yourselves down to simplicity. What does apple want? Everyone to start making circlular screen phones?
 
I guess his point is that anyone who buys a non-Apple product in an area that Apple competes is some sort of dummy or idiot.

And your guess would be wrong. We're talking specifically about Samsung, not HTC or LG or Motorola, all of which seem perfectly capable of creating a device that doesn't look like an Apple clone.

But hey, we're talking about Android, so of course the Google Defense Force must rush to Samsung's aid. :rolleyes:
 
When Apple invited Schmidt, Google already had started Google Docs and Android.
Here's what I know.

Google acquired Android, wanting to have its customers to have a mobile Google experience. It was designed to be a multi-device compatible OS, designed for QWERTY phones, touchscreens (not Multi-Touch), etc. It's first prototype was rendered in 2006.

Later in 2006, Schmidt was asked to be on Apple's Board of Directors. Apple, having already been developing iPhone, did not allow Schmidt into iPhone talks.

Now, this is what I think.

Apple released the iPhone with its Multi-Touch and lack of QWERTY keyboard. Android phones were released later, and although Android was designed for nearly any kind of phone, the wild success of the candybar, Multi-Touch, QWERTY-lacking iPhone led many high-profile Android phones to adopt similar form factors and specifications.

Remember, though, everybody copies. Palm OS inspired both iOS and Android greatly. iOS and Android, in their existence, have borrowed from one another as well. However, since Apple has been granted patents for many of the "core" features that many people take for granted, like auto-disappearing scroll bars, Apple seems to have the advantage. You may debate over the legitimacy of such patents, but remember, he who patents it, wins.
 
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Case-in-point: the windows phone. It's a touchscreen phone that doesn't look anything like the iPhone.

Well by that argument iOS looks a lot like the old Palm OS does. (A basicly grid lay out with touch icons.

To claim apps design is an lay out is original is funny.
 
On the left is Windows Mobile, a stylus & keyboard based OS. On the right is Android, a touch-based OS. Hmm, wonder why they would look so different?

A touch-based OS that used to offer keyboard accessible menu to perform certain important functions?
Android was a Blackberry clone adapted to the emergence of touch technology, but the OS design clearly kept using the same old paradigms present at that time.
 
Yap, and a company that thinks that an ex board member had done industrial theft never ever would sue him.

Baloney my ...

Why sue the guy who's giving your stuff away for free when you can sue the people creating real, sellable products from it?

Google is simply following Microsoft's browser scheme. Rip off someone else's work, give it away for free, and profit from collateral services. Not that the Google fans (one of which I once was) will ever be able to admit it.
 
Yes, Google had started Android already. But they hadn't started anything close to resembling the iPhone. For example, here's a Google search for "first Android prototype". Take a look at the first couple articles and images, why don't ya.


Have you looked at the picture dates? They are from November 2.007

And no it is not a Blackberry clone, it is a prototype from HTC than runs on HTC Windows Mobile hardware. There were touch only prototypes from the same date


Later in 2006, Schmidt was asked to be on Apple's Board of Directors, with Apple thinking they didn't need to worry about Google's phone, since Apple was not using the same design paradigms that Google was. Schmidt was allowed in the early iPhone talks, and he liked what he saw. He borrowed key ideas from Apple and, after the original iPhone release, launched the T-Mobile G1, with Android 1.0.


Any source for that?
 
Perhaps you should read up on Jobs' opinion of Android. You know, the product from Schmidt's company. That should tell you all you need to know.

People sometimes have short memories.

Jobs did not start ranting about Android until they turned on multi-touch in 2010, THREE YEARS AFTER the iPhone was first shown off, and over a half year after Schmidt left the Apple board.

In January 2008, Jobs dismissed Android just as rival Ballmer had dissed the iPhone:

Having created a phone, it’s a lot harder than it looks,” he said. “We’ll see how good their software is and we’ll see how consumers like it and how quickly it is adopted.” In seeking not to get locked out of the mobile phone world, “I actually think Google has achieved their goal without Android, and I now think Android hurts them more than it helps them. It’s just going to divide them and people who want to be their partners.”

Even by mid 2009, when Schmidt left the Apple board, and after Android phones had been selling for half a year, Jobs STILL had nothing bad to say about Android, because he didn't see it as a real threat yet.

It wasn't until early 2010, after Google finally enabled multi-touch and some other features also used by the iPhone, that Jobs went ballistic over Android and started accusing it of copying.

Among other reasons, Jobs apparently thought that Apple owned a patent on all multi-touch devices and no one else should be able to use it.
 
Well by that argument iOS looks a lot like the old Palm OS does. (A basicly grid lay out with touch icons.

To claim apps design is an lay out is original is funny.

Funny. I am not surprised though that Apple claims that App Grid to by itself but then the claims are very specific. But leaving the Palm thing aside, how about Newton? No?
 
Winning these lawsuits is actually in the longer term bad news for everyone including Apple.

What it can do is encourage a bunch of patent trolls to patent a lot of smartphone related stuff. Then sue the likes of Apple. You can bet your bottom dollar Samsung is already asking their staff to file for any small idea. And at some point the circle is going to come around and Apple's going to find itself at the receiving end. But unlike other companies where smartphones/device are only part of the business for Apple it is almost the entire business. So a string of loses could end up being quite serious for them.

Agree with this.

Even though I myself have been a long time Apple fan, I'm starting to get annoyed with all the patents and lawsuits that are just limiting innovation.
The world was not made for Apple.

Now that Jobs is dead, I believe this will be the start of Apple downfall.
 
While I agree that this maybe the case.

What Apple is effectively saying though is that since they were the first POPULAR usage of the technology, they should be the exclusive use of the technology / design.

See the fault of this logic and why people are getting frustrated with Apple?

What would have happened in the PC industry if Apple had blocked every single GUI that came out after them from being sold? Because thats what they're effectively attempting to do with mobile devices. "Candy bar touchscreen phones didnt do well till we sold them, so nobody should be able to sell them but us!"\


If there's a legitimate technological innovation that Apple invented then they have every right to protect it. But Popularization of an idea and suing everyone else for following suit with the concept isn't right.

Apple did not invent any of the cellular technology in their phone.
Apple did not invent the glass of their phone
Apple did not invent the touch capability of their phone
Apple did not invent multi touch technology and gestures.
Apple did not invent a rectangular phone shape.
Apple did not invent putting a camera in a phone.
Apple did not invent the grid shortcut layout.
Apple did not invent the ARM cpu, nor the multicore ARM cpu.
Apple did not invent high DPI screens.
Apple did not invent ... (add your own).

Yet apple filed 200 patents on the iphone and has proceeded to sue the crap out of Samsung for using one or many of these technologies, as well as many other manufacturers.

This is why there's such negativity towards Apple whenever theres' new news on lawsuits.

Do i Think that Samsung changed gears post iphone? Yes. Do I believe that their marketing gimmickry has copied many of apples designs? yes. There is clear inspiration.

But like so many have said, Many of the things Apple is claiming are not their own to claim. the list of things goes on and on. The only lawsuit so far I think has had any legitimacy was the slide to unlock feature that Android instituted and they should have come up with another unlock mechanism.

Apple did however watch the companies that made many of the technologies you mentioned and proceeded to buy them, securing the tech as THEIRS. Samsung had opportunity to do they same and now they want to profit off of apple acquisitions. I think that $2.5 B is high but Samsung IS copying a lot, a new "Samsung Store" just popped up at a local mall. I understand apple didn't invent retail, but I have some knowledge of the plans for these stores and they have actually taken ideas directly from apples retail play book. They are chasing the winning company insteading of trying to become the leader. There is a sutle difference
 
A touch-based OS that used to offer keyboard accessible menu to perform certain important functions?
Android was a Blackberry clone adapted to the emergence of touch technology, but the OS design clearly kept using the same old paradigms present at that time.

What accessible menu to perform certain important functions are you talking about?
 
Jobs did not start ranting about Android until they turned on multi-touch in 2010, THREE YEARS AFTER the iPhone was first shown off, and over a half year after Schmidt left the Apple board.

You spoke to Jobs a lot did you?
 
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