Apple's Path to Arm-Based Macs Could Start With a New 12-Inch MacBook

[jerwin]

Dedicated GPUs required x86 instruction sets, so how would an ARM play with an AMD GPU?

My iBook had a Rage 128, and my Powermac G4 had a Radeon 9000. Then I yanked it out and put in a Radeon 9600. Now, I seem to recall that custom firmware was involved, but you shouldn't overstate the advantages of x86.

NVIDIA Brings CUDA to Arm, Enabling New Path to Exascale Supercomputing

That's from 2019.

 

[George Dawes]

Exciting news

 

[Superman730]

Nope. First one will be a new 16"-ish MBP. New architecture won't be adopted other than by early adopters (developers, etc.). Those people don't want a low-end 12" machine.

If you pull out the 12" machine and give it a low price point, it will be adopted by a bunch of people that don't know anything about architecture and just want in on the Apple Ecosystem for low cost.

 

[NotTooLate]

Many pro applications have in their source code, assembly routines to streamline processes, this assembly code is made for Intel chps, what will happen to all these pro apps? How long will it take for the big firms of these apps to adapt their code for ARM chips?

As with everything in life , machines(i.e non human) does it better in the end , now days compilers are plenty smart and no need to try and tune it yourself , same as in (cmaier will relate) the past silicon companies (mainly Intel) will "hand design" big chunks of their RTL logic , now days synth does most of the work to a very good level of optimization , some libs are still custom design, but most of the design is synth (aside from the Analog portion of course).

This is a money driven business , if "big firms" are not coming along , they will stay behind and get replaced by someone who would fill the gap (and get payed for that).

Note - As MS missed the last big transition (mobile) , they taught the big SW houses a lesson , never think that you are too big to fail , the biggest threat to Intel X86 consumer machines is NOT Apple , its the other players in the game which are extremely happy to see Apple spearhead this for them , all of the below companies will help the "big SW firms" to move their SW to ARM.

1) Microsoft - no way they are getting stuck with X86 good OS only , NO way , they lost Mobile due to hubris - (they are running android on their HW for god sake) , some of the below players are a real threat if they dont move as well.
2) Qualcom/ARM - An untapped market with high margins ?! they will do whatever they can to tap into it , Apple will show its possible (or not).
3) Google - Currently only selling chromebooks , if the ARM transition is going to work for Apple I assume they will be calling QC for chips ASAP.
4) OEM`s - Intel are killing their margins with CPU pricing , they will be more then happy to have some competition to reduce both the ARM and Intel/AMD pricing.

 

[gleepskip]

In fact, most users would be much better off with a Chromebook.

To get an Apple-quality Chromebook, you'll spend approximately $1,000 anyway. If you're spending that much, you may as well get a full-featured OS and get a normal laptop (macOS/W10).

 

[Gerdi]

Nowadays there aren’t that many apps like that.

And the few apps, which contain assembly or intrinsics typically have a C-code path for those functions as well.

 

[wigby]

Never buy a gen 1 anything. Car, Computer.. ETC.

Gen 1 is perfectly fine for most consumers. The only time you don’t want to be a beta tester for Apple is if you make money using your computer or you are in between important projects. I’ve bought nearly every first gen product from Apple and I’ve never experienced anything more than a minor inconvenience here and there.

 

[ghanwani]

Based on tidbits from supply chain sources, Fudge believes that Apple could revive its now-discontinued MacBook, with a new 12-inch model unveiled as the first Mac with an Apple-designed Arm-based chip. Though hard to believe, he suggests that Apple could even perhaps revive the butterfly keyboard for the machine.The 12-inch MacBook could look the same as the retired version, and Fudge says it's unclear if there will be design changes.

Butterfly keyboard and 480p camera? I sure hope this rumor is wrong.

 

[Tech198]

Well, at least this time round Apple is starting from the bottom, not from the end and adding back. I always thougt this was sthe right way to do things.. Stuff the newer devices... Those users can wait..

 

[Haust]

Typing on a Surface Pro X that I picked up a week ago. Thing is awesome for general use. Will have a data plan soon. My only gripe so far is that veracrypt doesn't work. I should have splurged for the business model and got Windows Pro so I could have Bitlocker. Anyways, I think for most people an ARM based Mac with an onboard data plan will be compelling to say the least. Not everyone needs Photoshop and not everyone plays games.

The other gripe is that Microsoft choose a rare SSD (m.2 2230) and it's nearly impossible to find one to upgrade. Bummer! Wished they could have just used a standard m.2 NVMe.

 

[ian87w]

Going to be interesting.

Make sense to start with the lowest consumer model. Lay consumers would be less likely require apps outside the Mac store. In fact, most are probably already accustomed to the app store concept and web apps. It will also give time to the big pro apps developers to port their apps.

Wonder how Apple would price this though. There are overlapping products like the MacBook Air and iPad Pro.

It will be exciting, but still bleeding edge.

 

[yurc]

So in the nutshell, Apple said : “We won’t give up yet with our butterfly keebs”

Make sense, remember the first 2016 single port MacBook is also first device which employs butterfly, Apple would use this chance to ships next gen butterfly, once again.

 

[ian87w]

So in the nutshell, Apple said : “We won’t give up yet with our butterfly keebs”

Make sense, remember the first 2016 single port MacBook is also first device which employs butterfly, Apple would use this chance to ships next gen butterfly, once again.

Well, Apple didn't say anything, it's just a rumor. With Apple using scissor mechanism even on the iPad Pro's magic keyboard, I think it's safe to say they are done with butterfly.

 

[whatta]

I really don’t like when an iPad Pro is released just few months before the brand new CPU is out (A14 this time for the iPhone and the Macs).. otherwise I look forward to basic laptop OS features on my iPad like full screen apps on external monitors and full support of external drives with formatting and multiple file systems.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I fail to see how a ‘new’ 12-inch MacBook would be cheaper than the current Air. Bear in mind that when it originally launched, it was priced at a ridiculous $1,300 and had pretty much less of everything compared to Apple’s other notebooks. Do we really believe that Apple would backtrack and drop the price by, for instance, $400, when the only difference is the CPU itself? That would be a total slap in the face for the original customers and a dent for Apple’s pricing decisions.

As others have noted, it wouldn’t make sense to confuse the line-up once again. Apple only needs to market two products; a consumer and professional variant of the notebook. For all the former’s advantages, are there really enough reasons for a 12-inch MacBook to co-exist with the Air - the latter of which also having branding that suggests it should be the lightest?

It’s not clear at all what Apple will do, but given that they redesigned the chassis for all their notebooks just to accommodate a brand new keyboard, it’s unlikely we’re going to see radical changes soon. That was damage control; they’re not going back to an industrial design that was flawed with the butterfly mechanism.

Furthermore, the layout of the MacBook Air is almost made for an ARM CPU. Again, as has been suggested, the current thermal solution to the Air is completely unfitting for Intel chips, and is more likely a stop-gap the transition.

 

[MichaelDT]

And the few apps, which contain assembly or intrinsics typically have a C-code path for those functions as well.

Lol with like 5% of the perf. compression, decoding, encoding, checksum, encryption, non thread local high perf synchronization, will all need to be rewritten.

 

[rajador]

The mb 12” is by far my favorite apple designed product. If those arm cpus can match the actual 10th gen processing speeds, i’m in. (And please add magsafe2 lol)

 

[Falhófnir]

Well yes, but just like you're saying why assume someone who wants a small screen only wants a basic processor, why also make assumptions that if you don't need a fast processor, thus you also don't need a lot of RAM and storage. Just give the full range of processor/RAM/SSD options for each of 12/14/16". And also give a thin, light, less ports Air option, and thicker, heavier, more ports Pro option for all of the array of options. How hard can it be.

E.g. for my own use I currently would want 16", basic slow processor, basic slow GPU, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD. I simply don't need or use fast processing, so don't want to pay for them, but do love a big screen and don't need it to be so thin and light, and do have a complex array of tasks that require a lot of RAM (but not fast processing), and do have a lot of complex software and data that needs a lot of storage space and want room to grow it. Basically, I'd get a 16" Air if it existed (and if they fixed the thermals), and if it had the RAM/SSD options I need.

Yep that's what I meant to say, 3 sizes, all having the full range of options from most basic processor, 256GB storage, 8GB RAM all the way up to the top processor, 8TB storage, 64GB RAM, P3 ProMotion HDR display etc
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To truly make the switch to ARM would need to be done across the entire Mac line in a way that was done in the past when Apple switched from 68K to PPC, or when they switched from PPC to Intel. Those other models that you mentioned that stuck around did so to hit a price point. Nothing more. Once Apple finished the transition to Intel processors, there wasn't any PPC-based Macs hanging around. That's how you do an architecture transition.

At least in the case of the 13" Pro and 15" Pro I mentioned, when they were discontinued there was no equivalent priced model to take their place, and still isn't. So I think it was more about offering a transitory model which still offered Optical (13" Pro) or USB A, SD, HDMI (15" Pro and MacBook Air). Maybe with the Air price was more of a factor as it is a price sensitive model and it has sine ben replaced with a new $999 model. With the Pros, though, just hitting a price point isn't enough of an explanation when they were later dropped with nothing to fill the price points they were at. So they won't be advertised, there will be no further updates to them, but I think they will still be there quietly at the bottom of the page 2-3 years hence.

 

[NikoKnows]

I think transition goes as follows:
1. iPad Pros gets all pro apps Apple makes in Mac like Final Cut Pro. Those apps work great when connected to external display and where iPad’s touch screen has many functions of the application and in some cases mouse trackpad. Next November.

3. You can place iPad 12,9” top of MacBook’s keyboard to function better than keyboard as an editing tool for video editing etc. Just plug iPad with MacBook via USB 3.0 cable. iPad edits video with MacBook together.

4. iPad Pro 14,2” with A14Z chip: next November with iOS 14.2. 😉

 

[5883662]

I’ve recently received my new MacBook Air and whilst it’s great, I really do miss the form factor and weight of the MacBook I had before. It’s a huge difference! Couldn’t believe how massive and heavy it felt.

I’m sure I’ll get used to it and to me it’s an auxiliary device only for work and for client meetings whilst I got the Mac Pro and a Mac mini to do proper work.

So this new 13” MacBook could be interesting if the software I use works on it.

 

[Project Alice]

no - AMD is the only company that has this license and intel fought them pretty hard (and lost) to limit them a long while back. they will never issue another license like AMD has again.

maybe apple should just buy AMD

Not true. VIA also has the x86 license.

 

[KPOM]

Many pro applications have in their source code, assembly routines to streamline processes, this assembly code is made for Intel chps, what will happen to all these pro apps? How long will it take for the big firms of these apps to adapt their code for ARM chips?

This was true in the 1980s and 1990s, but today best practice is not to write directly to assembly because the processors constantly change and add new instructions. Let the OS handle it.

 

[Scottsdale]

A number of 1990s' Macs came with an optional DOS daughterboard that was an entire x86 system you could dual-boot into.

I understand. What I want though is complete transparency to the end use. Only pro/tech users would understand. It may be more complicated to program, but to the end user is simple. Their apps just work. With Apple, developers get much better at doing things in a streamlined way. It’s not realistic to think Adobe will have everything ready even in a year or two. Adobe’s programs while hated by many are the defacto standard for so many creatives.

Microsoft Office and many other simpler apps all ready run effectively on iOS. Anything that runs on an iPad or iPhone will all ready run on ARM. What simplicity is to the end user = it just works. Apple will have a lot of frustrated professional users and non professionals at the same time Just like Microsoft has with Windows on ARM. Emulation seems great if it works, but let’s all be completely realistic. It would cost Apple very little per Mac to include a real A-series CPU that could handle maybe 95% of the workload.

Then, when needed the Intel CPU would turn on. It’s a simpler system for end users. It’s just like how people use Parallels to run windows VMs in the MacOS seamlessly. That would benefit so many more. The only issue is money. Tim Cook needs to cash his $140m in stock grants annually. But let’s assume this happened for a second. Each year less and less would be offloaded to the Intel CPU. Apple would have time to perfect this without it all blowing up in their face.

Apple isn’t going to just introduce ARM on MacBooks or consumer-level Macs. This will be implemented on every Mac. This will cost developers far more time and money than it will cost Apple. This isn’t good for developers in the short term. It’s only beneficial if Apple can expand the whole ecosystem and provide a better experience to all. Not just to consumers who run Word, Netflix, and Facebook in a browser.

Help developers and professional users by doing something that’s harder behind the scenes but simpler to everyone using it. And for those wanting ARM-Only Macs, Apple could do that with a MacBook or budget iMac, but not do it to MacBook Pros or larger iMacs. It’s like the current system flipped. We now have an Apple T2 chip doing a small percentage of tasks really well, sometimes, and Intel doing the majority. What I propose is to flip that. But don’t entirely eliminate Intel. For the buyer using ARM most or all of the time, they could have 20-hour battery life. For the professional user running Adobe Premiere, they could have their standard six hours or so.

I just think this option should be explored before making such a hard switch that hurts developers and end users most. That’s what I foresee here. Smaller development companies will spend more resources to ensure their apps run on the new Macs while also supporting old Macs for years. Then to keep parity in feature sets, it’s even more difficult. And large companies like Adobe will leave us with huge compromises for years. Let’s face it, Apple keeps doing these things that make Apple more money but cost everyone else more money and time.

 

[liketom]

Apple TV form factor with the new ARM Cpu's 256GB SSD/ 8GB RAM/USB C 1xHDMI - this is the new Dev Kit IMO £499

Mac OS X was leading a double life under PPC with every build having X86 version also, what's to say Apple have not done the double again with ARM.

This new dev kit will transition into the new MacMini.

I do not think Apple would risk a new Dev kit this important to run on battery power?

 

[ascender]

Bringing ARM to a laptop like the 12" MB or Air first has always made sense, but I just don't believe they'll bring out a new 12" MB with the exact same design (1 port??) and butterfly keyboard. The scissor-switched keyboards have show you don't need to increase the size of the case by much to accommodate it.

I guess you could add cellular and a second port and you then have a much more capable ultrabook? 0.92g v1.29kg is still a big weight saving and the 12" machine remains the only MacBook you can genuinely forget you're carrying.

In terms of the typical 12" buyer, I bet you could release it first and get very little complaints about software not being available for it due to the nature of work people tend to use those for.

I was always a fan of the 12" machine despite its flaws. If they released one with 2 ports, cellular, very long battery life and good performance, I'd probably snap one up on day one.