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Apple's Path to Arm-Based Macs Could Start With a New 12-Inch MacBook
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EDIT: ADD THE FIRST STATEMENT
IT WOULD ELIMINATE THE NEED TO DEPEND ON INTEL TO RELEASE. APPLE RELEASES WHEN IT HAS IMPROVED THE ARM SOC.
What it would achieve is making Macs work best for the most users. It would allow small developers time to not spread too thinly. It would allow companies like Adobe time to do these things that only make Apple more money. They don’t help anyone but Apple in the short run. In the long run, if Apple makes the ecosystem larger and expands Macs usage, then developers will be rewarded. But in the short run this is a nightmare for everyone from users to developers. Microsoft doesn’t do so many negative things to its developers and customers. Most of what ran on Windows 95 still runs today. Apple will be on three architectures and a plethora of other restrictions. The only reason companies like Adobe develop for the Mac at all is the professional markets. And now they will have to develop for Windows, MacOS Intel, and MacOS ARM.
Time and proof of concept are needed especially since Apple is picking now to do this. The global pandemic isn’t over despite most people acting as such. 15% of Americans are unemployed in the last three months and receiving an extra $600 per week now. But that’s about to change as the Federal benefits will subside soon. It’s not in users best interest in the short term. And at best Apple could time this much better.
For many years these large companies have made record profits and not truly given better pay and benefits to the working class. Apple, is going to do this to save maybe 70% of cpu costs in the short term and probably a whole lot more in the long term. They will not pass that on to consumers or to the average employee. The executives like Tim Cook will just get larger boosts in stock grants, and the shareholders representing mostly the top 1% will pocket the remainder. That’s a sad solution here at this time. But that’s just one of many problems.
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True but the flip side hasn’t been offered.
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There was speculation that the butterfly keyboards were failing due to excessive heat being generated from the CPU located directly below it. This might not be an issue for laptops with ARM processors that presumably would generate far less heat. I guess we will see.
My understanding is the newest generation (last 15-inch MBP from early 2019) no longer had significant reliability issues any more anyway.
So that might be a choice for a small-form-factor laptop. I just don't want that kind of thing on my high-end 16-inch workstation. Reliability aside, it was just never a good idea to use such a low-profile keyboard on all MacBooks.
I bought an Apple Watch (first gen) and used for 3 years without an issue. Of course it was slow to open apps, but that’s because we compare it to much speedier current AW. First gen iPad was great also. So it was first iPhone. So it was the first gen AirPods which I am still using. You could be waiting forever for something better than the current, or you could enjoy what already exist. There will always be something better on horizon if you prefer to wait. So I completely disagree with the first gen philosophy some of you guys have.
I've been guessing a few years ago already that they'd use the 12" Macbook to move to ARM and see what happens, but if they put the butterfly keyboard in it again they're practically begging for it to not sell. Maybe that's the point? To limit the early adopters group in case things go sideways?
I would love to have a tiny, light computer that doesn't need a fan, but I'll bite my head off and eat it before spending money on another butterfly keyboard… thing.
I would love to have a tiny, light computer that doesn't need a fan, but I'll bite my head off and eat it before spending money on another butterfly keyboard… thing.
(assuming you're talking about the dual CPU idea) ...nonsense, because as long as a significant amount of software still needs Intel, the performance of those machines will still depend on the level of Intel technology, their size & cooling system will still be dictated by the Intel chip, and they'll cost an absolute packet to cover the cost of two primary processors and a lot of extra interfacing gubbins. Or, if they just threw in a cheap, ultra-low-power Celeron it would likely be outperformed by software emulation on the ARM. Meanwhile, as long as Macs still have an Intel CPU inside, developers won't have any incentive to build ARM versions of their software.
No, they'll just have to develop for Windows and MacOS like before (and if the code is well-written huge tranches of it will be shared between those two). Once they've fixed any x86 dependencies in their code the result should build seamlessly for either x86 or ARM. Yes, they'll need to do some testing on both ARM and x86 but supporting two CPU types is nothing like the work required in supporting two OSs as different as Windows and MacOS. Unless, of course, Apple stuff up by making "MacOS for ARM" some sort of dumbed-down and incompatible iOS/MacOS hybrid - but let's give them some credit until we know.
Actually, it would be a good chance for Apple to switch to some sort of bytecode-based distribution, in which case they'd be free to switch to RISC-V or AMD or some new CPU in the future without all this wailing and gnashing of teeth. Whether that's the same as the existing "bitcode" for iOS is moot: both Android and "modern" Windows apps (using the common language runtime) use processor-independent bytecode (windows just can't shake off the need to run 20 year-old binaries).
NB: sitting in my cupboard is a 25 year-old computer with dual ARM and x86 CPUs - the only point of the x86 was to accelerate Windows/DOS software - and even that was marginal, as anything but the lowest-power intel processor option added more than the cost of a cheap PC. This was the 1990s, where many websites wouldn't display properly on the Acorn web browser, there was no google docs and workplace networks only supported PCs or (very grudgingly) Macs - and PCs were big beige boxes - and still the dual-processor idea was barely viable. Now it is 2020, the back of the MS/Wintel monopoly has been broken by mobile and web technology, the industry standard browser is cross-platform Chrome/WebKit and the vast majority of development is done using hardware-independent programming languages and OS-level hardware abstraction. Plus, you can get a cheap PC ultrabook or small-form-factor PC to sit alongside your Mac without having to move into a bigger house.
I have to disagree. I've owned 3 macbook pros (15 Inch) over the years and the 2017 Macbook 12inch.
Macbook 12 Inch is hands down my fav computer i've ever used. I wish they would release a new version. I don't think the "air" is portable enough to be honest.
I think they should release a 12inch form factor with smaller bezels (making it a 13inch) and call it the Air.
And then a 14 and 16 inch pro and call it a day.
Even better if they could squeeze a ~13.0" screen into the design, the 12" bezels are quite chunky even compared to the current MBA, let alone the 16" Pro. I think they are approximately the same as the 2015 era Pros in fact.
There was a more detailed analysis that basically proved it was metal fatigue. Heat wouldn't make sense because keys nowhere near the processor were failing (like the space bar) while keys right next to it weren't. The most often used keys were the ones failing. So unless they fix that switching to ARM won't solve it. I think the last version of the butterfly keyboard did have a different metal alloy but I haven't heard if that finally fixed it.
I hate to say it but I could see them keeping the butterfly on the 12" model. It makes sense there. Hopefully they leave the Pros alone and I think they will, but a hypothetical "Macbook Helium" would need to shave weight and size anywhere possible if it's going to be thinner than the last 12" Macbook.
Agreed. The iPhone and App store changed everything. No one cared that the iPhone didn't have Intel inside. (Intel had their chance and blew it. More fool them.)
As long as it performs well and you can use the software from the App store. That's that's new paradigm.
It makes the old one seem quaint.
Just a matter of time before the Mac joins the 'ARM' party. If Adobe, M$ don't join the 'Mac' ARM apps store I'll find alternative software that does. It's not like the last transition. You don't need Photoshop or Word to do 9/10 things. (I'll bet they'll follow the money, though...)
Azrael.
Good lord people will look for any excuse to whine about nothing. This seems like such vapid criticism. Something that just keeps getting repeated, like a meem, with no real thought behind it. Just something snarky to say.
Buy a Mac, use it, move on with your life. Who cares what other Macs Apple offers? What does it matter to any of you how Apple’s marketing and product teams decide to segment their product lineup? They will still keep offering the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air, iMac, iMac Pro and Mac Pro, so what skin it it off if anyone’s back if they re-introduce a tiny, light use MacBook with ARM in order to field test the new architecture without disrupting the current lineup and users who depend on those machines?
Or would you rather have them try out a brand new chip and software rollout on a MacBook Air or Pro, upending the workflow of millions of users and likely inciting a cacophony of complaints and whining that this should have been rolled out more slowly, and on less critical machines?
There was no real design change when they moved from PowerPC to X86, why there be design changes when moving from X64 to ARM64?
The point is that it’s not a seismic change why advertising it more than it needs to be?
yep , I am sick of tim cooks era of stupid confusing market fragmentation but apple does it because it is profitable aka STONKS!
Lord Jobs: Macbook was the reasonable cost laptop for people who do not want to pay $999+ for a laptop with OSX
Timmy apple, 2017 macbook was the super low power 12 inch metal unibody laptop with 480p facetime camera priced $1000+, quickly discontinued because it was an overpriced flop
2020 macbook air 13 inch, virtually the same as the entry level 13 inch macbook pro but with faster ram and artificially crippled performance , deliberately removing the cpu heat pipe connection to the fan to make sure you are not getting too much of a good deal..
2021 mac book, $1299+ metal unibody ipad pro with a keyboard and runs macos with lower performance than the air ..
Apple laptop product line is becoming more fragmented and confusing similar to Sony in the early 2010's with their VAIO line and look how that worked out..
I agree with this. It would make the “Air” truly light as small, rather than a MBP on a diet. Part of me thinks this may be the plan? If they do a 14 MBP it would probably grow a touch much as the 15->16 size went. Then offer a new MB with reduced bezels to bring it close to 13 inches or so, roughly same physical footprint of the MB, ARM chip, lightweight, great battery, and market it to those of us who need something to carry around and do basic productivity stuff. The possible lack of compatible software initially wouldn’t be an issue for those of use using relatively common and simple programs.
It was a Pentium 4 3.6Ghz sold at $999 which developers had to return after a year. A year later as the transition was going better than planned, they’ve offered a free swap to one of the first MacBook Pro X86 I can’t recall which model exactly though.
Do you think that Apple just removed the PowerPC chip from the motherboard and soldered in an X86 chip ?
Of course there was a major hardware design change when Apple went from the PowerPC chip to an X86 chip.
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I think that one of the major users of this would be students and you would definitely hear many complaints about not being able to game on it (other than iOS games).
That may be true now, but remember how quickly Apple dropped support for PPC machines? All the people who just bought PM G5 computers were probably not feeling too pleased. The 12" was, and still is, a great machine for those who don't need a ton of power.
Other than the ****** keyboard.
I just lucked out - literally two weeks ago, a week before apple care expired, we brought in our 12” to get the keyboard fixed (space bar completely stopped working, and several other keys intermittently double-press or miss strokes. Already replaced keyboard once a year ago). The lucky part was the Battery also failed their testing, so i got a whole new top case/keyboard and a new battery all for free.
Sadly, while that would mean many more years of use for any of apple’s scissor-keyboard designs, I’m sure that the 12” keyboard will fail again within the next year or so.
8 GB is plenty for testing Mac App Store apps (if you want your apps to run for typical customers). Run the Xcode builds and other junk on your "real" Mac.