Apple's Path to Arm-Based Macs Could Start With a New 12-Inch MacBook

[decisions]

lol quickly buy your new Scissor Keyboard MBP before they ruin things again.

Am I the only person who thinks that the reason the Butterfly Keyboard is terrible has less to do with reliability (never had an issue with mine in this regard fortunately), but more with that they just might be the most unpleasant keyboard to type on ever made? Like seriously, the ergonomics alone are a reason to move up to a new MacBook. There can't be anything good about all the force going straight back into your hand every time you type. Even if you try to type as lightly as possible, it still feels like you are slamming your fingers into nothing. I'm legitimately worried I'm going to get carpal tunnel much more quickly since I don't have the money for a new MBP right now.

 

[firewood]

I doubt they'll debut hardware at WWDC but instead are forced to reveal it because it's part of the new Mac OS as well as get developers ready for the ARM migration.

How will developers test if they debut new tools (Xcode updates, etc.) for the ARM migration, but no hardware?

Maybe allowing submitting dual binary apps, and Apple will do an App Store review?

Or allow a macOS app environment inside an iPad VM (e.g. inside a sandboxed iOS app, not directly on iPad hardware), perhaps tethered to a Mac for keyboard, USB, and file system storage?

 

[Coconut Bean]

A 12-inch MacBook with ARM may very well outperform the current high-end MacBook Pros, in the same way the iPad Pro does (or comes pretty close).

So it does not in any of the tasks pros would buy a high-end MacBook pro for?

 

[JPack]

Every reviewers is speculating that ARM will begin on a low-end machine, this is rubbish.

It will start on a pretty powerful machine, don't know if it will be a Macbook Pro 16 or not.

A) It will show their confidence in the move.
B) It will give them a better opportunity to charge a premium for it.
C) If you start bottom up and increase performance you run the risk to encroach on the Pro line.
D) Ming Chi Kuo predicted the transition to ARM will be fast, if that's the case, there is no advantages in starting bottom-up.

Just like how Apple launched A4 and then the high-performance A5X two years later? You haven't considered the engineering reality of the situation. Not to mention software.

Many MacBook Pro users rely on commercial software, not just stuff in the Mac App Store. None of that stuff is ready.

 

[joeblough]

How will developers test if they debut new tools (Xcode updates, etc.) for the ARM migration, but no hardware?

Maybe allowing submitting dual binary apps, and Apple will do an App Store review?

Or allow a macOS app environment inside an iPad VM (e.g. inside a sandboxed iOS app, not directly on iPad hardware), perhaps tethered to a Mac for keyboard, USB, and file system storage?

when the intel macs came out, there was a special "white box" PC that apple was selling to developers to let them test their ports. i can't remember the details but i think maybe devs were only leasing these things and had to return them to apple when the first intel macbooks came out.

maybe they will do something similar here... before making a macbook i'd bet my life that they made (large-ish) desktop development boards for in-house software people. they might make those available to 3rd party developers.

 

[yojason]

I was kind of hoping we don't go back to the 2016 days of a MacBook line-up that's confusing and stupid.

However, for younger users that might be new to notebooks, but familiar with the “iPad / iPad Air / iPad Pro” family of touchscreen computers, a “MacBook / MacBook Air / MacBook Pro” naming structure is a great branding decision. You just have to know that Air is not a measurement of it’s lightness. It’s a only a popular word that helps sell shoes, rent apartments, sell plane tickets.

 

[bernoulli]

I will buy it, I guess it will be not very expensive.

Apple charges over £1000 for a phone. Not a chance.

 

[cmaier]

Many MacBook Pro users rely on commercial software, not just stuff in the Mac App Store. None of that stuff is ready.

You so sure?

 

[CrazyForCashews]

Shut up and take my money!

The 12" MacBook was a magical and amazing piece of engineering. One of the most beautifully designed MacBooks Apple ever made. Honestly if the 12" MacBook made a comeback even with just a magic keyboard, I would buy it day one.

 

[cmaier]

Apple charges over £1000 for a phone. Not a chance.

They also charge less for perfectly great phones.

 

[trace594]

If the switch to ARM is inevitable, so what's the point of having MacOS or even the Mac line up if it the same as hardware the iPhone and iPads use? So what becomes the differencing factor?

Now let's level here, I don't think it a fair comparison to say ARM is faster than x86. Two chips doing things two different ways. Truthfully, no one really cares about those types of things anymore. As long as it run all day, it says it faster then people are happy.

Painting target on my back with that last part 😋

 

[cmaier]

If the switch to ARM is inevitable, so what's the point of having MacOS or even the Mac line up if it the same as hardware the iPhone and iPads use? So what becomes the differencing factor?

Now let's level here, I don't think it a fair comparison to say ARM is faster than x86. Two chips doing things two different ways. Truthfully, no one really cares about those types of things anymore. As long as it run all day, it says it faster then people are happy.

The difference is the software, to start with. And the hardware won't be the same - just the instruction set architecture.

I mean, a synology NAS uses x86 and so do a lot of supercomputers. What's the point?

 

[high heaven]

The first ARM Mac is 12in MacBook and it has 12 cores? Hmmm...

 

[Orionfox]

While I have ben through these changes before (with Apple and other companies), I had the dual CPU Performa 640 back in the day, I am worried the transition to ARM will make a Mac not a viable option for me.

I am surprised notebooks are still a thing - I would take an iPad over a notebook any day. So to me the crowd that wants thinner, lighter and longer battery life should just go iPad.

I want a Mac as the centerpiece of my home and my other Apple accessories. Since its a desktop, I don't care about power usage, I just care about overall power. For most things people do on a computer, I can do on iPhone or my iPad except one thing, gaming. I am not a hardcore cutting edge gamer - I don't need the latest an greatest video card or LED lights everywhere, I just need a somewhat relevant GPU - that covers the 3 - 4 games I play and have played since what 2000 or so. I LOVE to do these in the OS X. Ill go to Boot Camp when I cant.

If you take away my ability to play PC games ( and seriously Apple doesn't understand even casual gamers - see Apple Arcade) I have no reason to own a Mac. The sad part is, its a struggle today, but some of us have loved Apple since the 1980's and are trying to stick with the company. It will suck if the company abandons the people who stuck with them for so long.

 

[KPOM]

Could the new ARM 12 inch MacBook simply become the new “Air”. 2lbs, 12 Inches, pretty Air-y to me. Especially if they do the MBP 16 inch treatment to the bezels to push it closer to 13. The MacBook always felt a great step but unfinished. I liked thr keyboard width size and far less design. If the Air is already said to be a basic use machine, why not turn that line into a true lightweight Air, and differentiate further from the base 13 MBP. Especially in light of the rumored 14 inch MBP, now you’ve got a 12-13 MB(A?), and 14, 16 MBP offerings

Perhaps. The 13” Retina MacBook Air strikes me as the Mac Apple didn’t want to make, but felt they had to make once the 12” MacBook didn’t sell as well as expected, plus once Intel kept struggling with the new processors. The Y-series was supposed to be 5W. But now they are 9W processors (and even their hybrid Atom/Sunny Cove chip is 7W). So in order to support the new chips, they developed the new Air as a retrofit from the MacBook Pro chassis.

I think if they can make the 12” a bit thicker to accommodate a “Magic Keyboard” and perhaps a second USB-C (hopefully Thunderbolt/USB-4) port, then it would sell well. I’d buy it for sure.

 

[Schismz]

when the intel macs came out, there was a special "white box" PC that apple was selling to developers to let them test their ports. i can't remember the details but i think maybe devs were only leasing these things and had to return them to apple when the first intel macbooks came out.

maybe they will do something similar here... before making a macbook i'd bet my life that they made (large-ish) desktop development boards for in-house software people. they might make those available to 3rd party developers.

The original concept was "yellow box/blue box/Rhapsody" which cross-compiled across PowerPC and Intel. This is NeXTStep and what became OS X.

Rhapsody (operating system) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The dev boxes on transition from PowerPC to Intel were Mac Pros. Or rather an Intel chip in a Power Mac case, which became Mac Pro. Back then, is a lot different than right now though. To put it in perspective, "back then" predates the iPhone.

I don't pretend to know what Apple plans at this stage.

 

[Azrael9]

• I’ve always wanted to own and control the primary technology in everything we do. — Steve Jobs, October 12, 2004


• In order to build the best products, you have to own the primary technologies. Steve felt that if Apple could do that — make great products and great tools for people — they in turn would do great things. He felt strongly that this would be his contribution to the world at large. We still very much believe that. That’s still the core of this company. — Apple CEO Tim Cook, March 18, 2015

Borrowed from Macdaily News. Sums things up nicely.

Azrael.

 

[oneMadRssn]

The iPad Pro is barely using the bandwidth or features of USB-C. iPadOS received external storage support less than a year ago. Most iOS apps don't even recognize a second screen. Very few users are asking to output using a single-cable to dual 4K displays and charge at 60W at the same time.

"Some people say, 'Give the customers what they want.' But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. ... People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page."

 

[09872738]

Every reviewers is speculating that ARM will begin on a low-end machine, this is rubbish.

It will start on a pretty powerful machine, don't know if it will be a Macbook Pro 16 or not.

A) It will show their confidence in the move.
B) It will give them a better opportunity to charge a premium for it.
C) If you start bottom up and increase performance you run the risk to encroach on the Pro line.
D) Ming Chi Kuo predicted the transition to ARM will be fast, if that's the case, there is no advantages in starting bottom-up.

E) The move makes sense only if their own chips beat AMD64 by a significant amount. Just being on par won‘t suffice. An ARM MBP beating Intel MBPs by, say, 2-3 times in performance while being silent and actually delivering 12 hours of battery life would make a bold statement.

 

[progx]

You sure? I worked there and was never clear on how the license worked (other than I know we renegotiated it at least once while i was there).

And does IBM still have a fab license?

I read this from another post. The last processor IBM made was the 486DX4, which was made in conjuction with Cyrix. This is the same processor found in the dual-boot PowerMac 601. However, Cyrix started working with Winchip and then sold off their license to VIA. See this link for the original post.[/QUOTE]

 

[wwooden]

Nope. First one will be a new 16"-ish MBP. New architecture won't be adopted other than by early adopters (developers, etc.). Those people don't want a low-end 12" machine.

I'd actually argue the opposite. I think there are a lot people, myself included, who basically only use the Apple suite of software apps and others available on the Mac App store. I'm indifferent to what the processor is, as long as the software works and sync's to my other devices. This lines up perfectly with the entry MacBook market segment. Think about all the people who use nearly exclusively an iPhone or iPad, they don't care what the processor is and just download apps from the store. This is the same group of people who would buy an ARM based MacBook.

 

[trace594]

• I’ve always wanted to own and control the primary technology in everything we do. — Steve Jobs, October 12, 2004


• In order to build the best products, you have to own the primary technologies. Steve felt that if Apple could do that — make great products and great tools for people — they in turn would do great things. He felt strongly that this would be his contribution to the world at large. We still very much believe that. That’s still the core of this company. — Apple CEO Tim Cook, March 18, 2015

Borrowed from Macdaily News. Sums things up nicely.

Azrael.

You can interpret different meaning from vague quotes. Steve Jobs hated stylus

"Who wants a stylus, You have to get em and put em way and you lose em Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus." -Steve Job introducing iPhone.

but we have a Pencil now. Maybe can't interpret in direct quotes either

 

[andreltrn]

I don't believe that Apple will go back at this moment to the Butterfly Keyboard that would be suicide! They have receive such good comment all over the media for switching back to the old keyboard switch. If they do a 12" Mac Pro it will have a different design and have a more targeted audience. BTW I don't know any 12" users that used boot camp. just not the targeted audience.

 

[chucker23n1]

It's pretty much inevitable it will be as they introduce new models (possibly a whole new 'iBook' line) and phase old ones out...

I fail to see why. The January 2006 iMac immediately replaced the iMac G5 from just three months before. The MacBook Pro immediately replaced the PowerBook.

I see no reason they can't replace the MacBook Air with an ARM MacBook Air.

(One reason might be: because they don't have an emulator at all. But I don't see how that's a problem that can be solved by "phasing old ones out" — it'll still be a big problem years later.)

 

[biziclop]

I'd actually argue the opposite. I think there are a lot people, myself included, who basically only use the Apple suite of software apps and others available on the Mac App store.

Interesting. The only Apple software I use is practically the Finder app …