Apple's PC Sales Fall Behind ASUS as Buyers Await Next-Generation MacBook Pro and Other New Models

[navaira]

But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?

I'm going to be a devil's advocate here...

We WANT Apple to be great. We want their products to cause us to salivate all over the keyboard of 13" Macbook Airs from 2010 and whip our credit cards in a frenzy and spend our entire limit because the products are so irresistible. We want to be able to tell our Windows-loving friends "oh really? Windows 10? Well that's too bad, do you want to take a look at my laptop, the one that Samsung/HP/Dell tried and failed to rip off". We want to do our work at such speed that Windows-users will secretly suspect we work 24 hours a day.

I don't think many people feel like this about Google, Microsoft or Dell. But Apple used to be a brand that people fell in love with, and stayed in love with. We don't want an iPhone with gross antenna bands, no headphone jack, "the thinnest iPhone since the previous iPhone", UI lagging years behind Android. We don't want to have to consider a Dell laptop because Apple stuff is way, way, way overpriced for what it actually is. We want to buy the Mac Pro and feel that we've spent our $x,000 in the best way possible. We don't want to look at Buyer's Guide and see red "DON'T BUY" next to all computers except the shiny rose gold toy one. We want to feel that somebody cares about us enough to update them as soon as the technologies become available. We don't want to bring home the latest and greatest (and not updated) iMac with a 5400rpm drive. We don't want anybody to look at our new iMac and remark "does the OS always take that long to open on your computer?".

I moved on from iPhone. I moved on from iPad. I bought a 2015 Macbook Pro recently because Brexit made the Amazon UK price irresistible, because I don't want Windows and I own software that – unlike Adobe's CC – can't just be transformed into Windows versions without buying it again. But I still want to watch a keynote that will make me spend half of my savings on the new stuff because it is just too amazing to pass. I do NOT want a thinner Macbook Pro with 4 USB-C and butterfly keyboard. I do NOT want a rMB. I do NOT want to have to explain to my husband that when his 2011 iMac finally dies he'll have to fork over €2000 for a decent config and hear "can you build me a Hackintosh?" in return. When we bought that 2011 iMac he couldn't resist showing it off, gushing about the screen, about the speed, about the amazingness of it all. And not once did he say "I only wish it was thinner".

What people really mean by discussing Linux and Windows and Dell and Surface here, I think – that's what I am doing in Apple Music section praising Spotify – is attempting to shame our beloved Apple into delivering the goods. "Look darling, this is the new girl I met on Tinder, do you think she's cute?" while our Apple is sitting on the sofa burping after yet another bear, watching Kardashians and asking us "yo can you pass me more Pringles".

 

[iMcLovin]

No dramas, do as you please. Its a big world with lots of great products for every need.

I'm personally looking forward to Ax based Macs. I don't give a damn about Windows support. The CoreM rMacbook is tempting, but it's more than I'm prepared to pay. Intel's over priced chips are a big part of the price, so if a switch to Ax gives me comparable performance on the low end for a cheaper price then I'm all in. If Apple keeps the price the same and increases their margins, then I too would walk away from the company.

I'm happy for Intel CPUs to stay in the Pro line for those who need the Power and Windows compatibility.

No drama at all. I'm just saying that from that moment I understand that Apple will try to move away from Intel CPUs, I know that eventually macs will turn into something I can't use. I personally think it would begin apples downfall..., but for me, I'm able to see the advantages in the Windows/PC world and I'm used to working on it. So it would just mean the choice would be easier and more obvious. Right now pc and Mac are a tie for me, one being better performance and choices the other being better OS and product quality.

 

[theluggage]

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Because some of us aren't OS monotheists and actually use more than one operating system day-to-day.

Personally, I currently use a MBP as my main system & would like to stick, but if the next release of Mac hardware doesn't float my boat, or if the iOS-ification of mac OS goes too far*, I could switch to Windows or Linux without too much trauma.

(* or if Affinity doesn't, Real Soon Now, get round to adding arrowheads to Designer to complete the basic vector drawing functionality instead of faffing about with fancy photo effects - so I can finally ditch Xara on Windows - but that's another story...)

 

[Queen6]

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Why are Linux lovers here?

Yes, yes, it's a free and open forum. I understand that. But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?

For me, I visit and post here for news on Apple because, quite frankly, I don't care for Windows, Linux or any other computing platform.

Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."

!!!

Many of us simply expect more of Apple, with some having been with Apple & Mac for significant time. The drift towards other platforms and associated hardware is a direct result of Apple`s apathy towards the Mac and OS X, and to some extents Apple`s sheer greed.

Personally I don't want Apple to produce fashion statements, I want Apple to design the best computer hardware they possibly can (not to be confused with the thinest) with a secure & robust OS. All without an agenda that pushes you to purchase companion devices and or services in order to get the very best out of the computer, coupled with timely updates.

I also suspect many others have similar feelings hence the general negative aspect of this thread. If all was good with Apple & OS X, this thread wouldn't rate more than a couple pages, unfortunately it doesn't. Nor is this thread in isolation, far from it, nor would Mac sales in general be declining Q on Q.

Consider this if Apple and the Mac was at the top of it`s game, other platforms and hardware would not be consideration or more to the point be brought up so frequently in conversation for comparison across the forums. As other members have stated it`s fair to comment in comparison other hardware and platforms, if Apple wants brand loyalty they need to produce a better product at a fair price point. Currently Apple is failing to do this with the Mac, nor do I anticipate significant change anytime soon.

For some it`s purely a business decision, including myself as Apple no longer has the interest, ability or the imagination to design the hardware and software we need, equally this does not mean that personal interest in the Mac diminished by default.

Q-6

 

[judgejoolz]

Many of us simply expect more of Apple, with some having been with Apple & Mac for significant time. The drift towards other platforms and associated hardware is a direct result of Apple`s apathy towards the Mac and OS X, and to some extents Apple`s sheer greed.

Personally I don't want Apple to produce fashion statements, I want Apple to design the best computer hardware they possibly can (not to be confused with the thinest) with a secure & robust OS. All without an agenda that pushes you to purchase companion devices and or services in order to get the very best out of the computer, coupled with timely updates.

I also suspect many others have the similar feelings hence the general negative aspect of this thread, if all was good with Apple & OS X, this thread wouldn't rate more than a couple pages, unfortunately it doesn't. Nor is this thread in isolation, far from it, nor would Mac sales in general be declining Q on Q.

Consider this if Apple and the Mac was at the top of it`s game, other platforms and hardware would not be consideration or more to the point be brought up so frequently in conversation for comparison across the forums. As other members have stated it`s fair to comment in comparison other hardware and platforms, if Apple wants brand loyalty they need to produce a better product at a fair price point. Currently Apple is failing to do this with the Mac, nor do I anticipate significant change anytime soon.

For some it`s purely a business decision, including myself as Apple no longer has interest, ability or the imagination to design the hardware and software we need, equally this does not mean that personal interest in the Mac diminished by default.

Q-6

Spot on.

There's a very real chance that HP's forthcoming Elite x3 will see me move from iPhone 6s Plus; I really don't go in for the plethora of apps, so I won't miss them. What I will miss, however, is Apple's once legendary attention to detail, stellar software, and choice of first class components. Sadly that's more a marketing ruse these days.

Allied the above with my move from iMac to a Windows 10 (and likely soon to be accompanied by a Surface) then I'm afraid that Apple could lose me completely to another OS; one that focuses on a broad eco-system that's designed for productivity.

That said, those in the design space and those that are of a more creative bent are most likely to retain their focus on Apple - and I dare say for good reason. I won't wander far from the Apple universe and will always look in to see how things are coming along; but thus far the omens are not good. I would love others to be as concerned by privacy as Apple, but I know if I minimise what I upload to OneDrive and take care when online that I won't compromise my privacy too much.

 

[DevNull0]

Why first Mac instead of first Apple? My first Apple was a II+ in 1981 which was a fantastic machine for the time. I hated the clunky Mac GUI and All-in-one design and switched to a PC XT in 1984. To this day, I have never owned an all in one desktop. My first Mac was a powerbook G3 (Wallstreet) in 1999, though I didn't consider a Mac my main computer until my 2004 powerbook G4. Since then, I've owned 3 other powerbooks/MPBs ending with my current machine, a 2011. There were also several mac minis along the way including a 2012 i7 quad. I am very nearly certain I've bought my last Mac.

I really do think that says it all. It sounds a lot like the mentality of those from the Windows world who continue to like Windows over the Mac.

There's no convincing certain people why the Mac is better than Windows. And of course, there's no convincing folk like myself (a Mac user since the 128k in 1984) that the Windows world is better than my Mac.

But it is interesting to see how many Windows die-hards are here in an extremely Mac-centric forum!

What???

Soo because I've used Macs almost exclusively for the past 12 years and continue to do so today. And I've used Macs long with windows for 5 years before that.....I'm a windows die-hard???? Really. 9 Macs I've purchased since 2004 (5 laptops, 4 minis), and 1 windows machine (a gaming rig last fall for Oculus Rift after they cut off Apple support) and I'm a windows die-hard????

I am very much a Mac die hard who's extremely frustrated that Macs no long exist in a practical sense.
[doublepost=1468500157][/doublepost]

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."

Hey, according to you, I'm a windows die hard when I've hardly used windows since 1999 and don't much care for it.

So the real question is why are you so blindly devoted to a for-profit company that any criticism at all even from other fans offends you so much you think they shouldn't be here.

Do you think Apple is a religion where every customer has to toe the company line with worshipful devotion?

Why can't long term Apple fans voice their disappointment with the current direction of the company without you labelling them the enemy and attacking them?

 

[LordVic]

You can talk about all these technical limitations and call me clueless.
But you seem a real tech geek. Specs, etc.
Technically you are right.
But the purpose of a pc for gamers has changed over the years


-for gaming, consoles and tablets/smartphones have won the war. people don' t build high end rigs for that anymore, that is a niche.
-PC' s for downloading music and movies, they have lost the war against streaming services, tablets, smartphones and smart tv' s.
Etc, etc.
There will be some demand for very powerful pc' s by professionals for real powerful applications for cad, huge databases, graphic design, etc. but that is really a niche market right now.

So will a Mac with an advanced ax/arm soc be enough for people that want a trackpad or mouse , a real keyboard with a bigger screen for ergonomic reasons to manage spreadsheets, email, write letters, light gaming, social media, etc be enough? I think so.
That is where the mainstream PC market is heading right now.

All you can talk about is very high end PC' s for a small specific /niche market.

That market is very small and niche market these days.

People want a PC /Mac that is fast in basic tasks, has a lot of storage, works smooth, easy to use, with a good ecosystem. I can' t see why an arm based Mac won' t be able to pull this off.

an arm based mac(OS) would even benefit from the great iOS ecosystem and contribute to the development of more complex iOS apps in the future.

Interesting enough, on the Gaming front, This generation of Console has been losing out. Look at the titles released and it seems like PC gaming is making a huge comeback. But the lines between PC and Console gaming have blurred more than ever before. With technologies like steam link and in home streaming, and competent enough computers to match the performance of consoles being almost console like these days, it seems to be coming back hard. VR is also hoping to further push this. which is currently only PC.

Yeah, You no longer need a PC for most media consumption. We're starting to see an interesting trend with the "AVERAGE" user perfectly capable with midrange or lower parts and will never know the difference
But those who think they can switch really do misjudge how important being able to run Windows is on a Mac. Look at the popularity of Parallels and bootcamp. The problems is as I mentioned. At the end of the day, right now, 95% of the world computer usage is Windows. Switching from at least the capability of supporting it, and legacy programs would put a serious kick against it. Apple would become niche again.

I don't want that. Apple's greatest benefit in the Computer world when it switched to intel was that it finally provided competition to the crappy quality laptops that did exist in the "other" camp.

Could their be a MacBook version with Arm in the future? Possibly. It would feature a "neutered" capability and it would be basically stuck with users only able to get programs via the Mac App Store, which would essentially give Apple the same tie in and control that they have in iOS. Which at the end of the day, is a benefit for Apple, but not necessarily a benefit for consumers.

also: High End "gaming" isn't as Niche as you'd believe. in 2015, PC gaming was estimated to be a 35 Billion dollar industry.

Its just my opinion that Apple going Arm based CPU's for their computer side of things would be suicidal. Last time they were using a non standard silicon they nearly went out of business.

 

[aced411]

Since Apple TV doesn't offer all the features I want, like Amazon Prime Video, I'm going to Roku.

I've had various models of both for years. Perhaps you don't mind that 90% of the Roku apps seriously lack polish, but are you aware that ads are built right into the OS? Aside from the giant ad banner on the home screen, they were thoughtful enough to put them in the god damn screen saver now. I seriously don't understand how Roku fans aren't throwing a fit about it.

 

[LordVic]

You make valid points....but....Apple does NOT care about your ability to run multiple operating systems, and they DO care about locking you into their ecosystem. The PPC chip was not holding them back, in fact if you look at the numbers their biggest growth came from the G3/G4/G5 era. They did not switch to Intel so you could run windows. They switched to Intel because their relationship with IBM was falling apart. If it benefitted Apple they would dump Intel for their own technology. It would probably be an easy way to bridge the Mac and iOS for the supposed "post PC era".

The very reason they switched off PPC was because IBM was unable to deliver the Performance per watt of heat that intel was. While the overall performance of PPC was good. And it was getting faster and faster (heck I just was using a fairly old server yesterday with 8 PPC cores at 4.5Ghz that still ran fantastically), the Heat and power threshhold to achieve the constant power gains was unbearable for mobile.

Apple gave IBM a demand to be able to provide high performance, low power chips for laptops and they failed to deliver. This caused the inevitable shift. Although I have a feeling that Apple knew they IBM wasn't going to meet the requirements, because they had already started developing OSx for Intel.

 

[lowendlinux]

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Why are Linux lovers here?

Yes, yes, it's a free and open forum. I understand that. But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?

For me, I visit and post here for news on Apple because, quite frankly, I don't care for Windows, Linux or any other computing platform.

Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."

!!!

Because I make a living on Mac's??

 

[LordVic]

I believe Apple would want to change CPUs vendors to something they can participate more into the design of the cpu architecture. But currently Intel isn't holding Apple back, quite ironically new CPU updates comes quite a lot more frequent than Apple is able to update their computers. For what reasons except laziness, I don't know.

But what I do know is that the very instant Apple release a Mac without an Intel cpu will be the moment I know I should run far far away from Apple and never look back.

Could be the very help AMD needs if the Zen architecture doesn't work out

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Why are Linux lovers here?

Yes, yes, it's a free and open forum. I understand that. But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?

For me, I visit and post here for news on Apple because, quite frankly, I don't care for Windows, Linux or any other computing platform.

Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."

!!!

What an absolute juvenile post.

Some of us are lovers of more than just one platform. In Fact, anyone who truly is a geek should probably be versed in more than just OSx.

I use Linux, Windows, OSx, ChromeOS, Android, iOS daily. I have good experience and bad experiences with all. its ok that you don't care and keep a closed mind about the other platforms because of your comfort levels, but to try and judge anyone else for liking something you don't like is absolutely infantile.

I'm being hard on apple, Because i'm hard on EVERYONE. I'm critical. I expect more from Apple. This is an Apple forum, so I'm talking about Apple centrist view. That does not mean apple should be immune from Comparison to their competition.

 

[lowkey]

I'm going to be a devil's advocate here...

We WANT Apple to be great. We want their products to cause us to salivate all over the keyboard of 13" Macbook Airs from 2010 and whip our credit cards in a frenzy and spend our entire limit because the products are so irresistible. We want to be able to tell our Windows-loving friends "oh really? Windows 10? Well that's too bad, do you want to take a look at my laptop, the one that Samsung/HP/Dell tried and failed to rip off". We want to do our work at such speed that Windows-users will secretly suspect we work 24 hours a day.

I don't think many people feel like this about Google, Microsoft or Dell. But Apple used to be a brand that people fell in love with, and stayed in love with. We don't want an iPhone with gross antenna bands, no headphone jack, "the thinnest iPhone since the previous iPhone", UI lagging years behind Android. We don't want to have to consider a Dell laptop because Apple stuff is way, way, way overpriced for what it actually is. We want to buy the Mac Pro and feel that we've spent our $x,000 in the best way possible. We don't want to look at Buyer's Guide and see red "DON'T BUY" next to all computers except the shiny rose gold toy one. We want to feel that somebody cares about us enough to update them as soon as the technologies become available. We don't want to bring home the latest and greatest (and not updated) iMac with a 5400rpm drive. We don't want anybody to look at our new iMac and remark "does the OS always take that long to open on your computer?".

I moved on from iPhone. I moved on from iPad. I bought a 2015 Macbook Pro recently because Brexit made the Amazon UK price irresistible, because I don't want Windows and I own software that – unlike Adobe's CC – can't just be transformed into Windows versions without buying it again. But I still want to watch a keynote that will make me spend half of my savings on the new stuff because it is just too amazing to pass. I do NOT want a thinner Macbook Pro with 4 USB-C and butterfly keyboard. I do NOT want a rMB. I do NOT want to have to explain to my husband that when his 2011 iMac finally dies he'll have to fork over €2000 for a decent config and hear "can you build me a Hackintosh?" in return. When we bought that 2011 iMac he couldn't resist showing it off, gushing about the screen, about the speed, about the amazingness of it all. And not once did he say "I only wish it was thinner".

What people really mean by discussing Linux and Windows and Dell and Surface here, I think – that's what I am doing in Apple Music section praising Spotify – is attempting to shame our beloved Apple into delivering the goods. "Look darling, this is the new girl I met on Tinder, do you think she's cute?" while our Apple is sitting on the sofa burping after yet another bear, watching Kardashians and asking us "yo can you pass me more Pringles".

Each to their own then. I do love my rMB. It does everything I need for work. I show it off all the time...It's beautifully made and weighs almost nothing. I have another work colleague with the same machine and she loves hers like a baby. I bought it refurb so the price was fine. Oh and the keyboard is much better than on my 15" MBP.

I bought the rMB because my 15" MacBook Pro (I have a 2013 model) is too heavy and bulky to carry around everyday...did it for 6 months and hated it.

I wish the new MBPs would be thinner and lighter. Then I could sell my 2 existing laptops and have just one. Ideally a quad core 13" MBP.

Ps. I really couldn't care less whether my iPhone has antenna bands or not.

 

[theluggage]

the Heat and power threshhold to achieve the constant power gains was unbearable for mobile.

Yup - specifically, Apple were unable to produce the mythical "Powerbook G5".

Also, Intel processors had just got far, far better after they chucked the power-guzzling Pentium 4 under a bus & developed the "Core" range out of the old Pentium Pro design instead.

Although I have a feeling that Apple knew they IBM wasn't going to meet the requirements, because they had already started developing OSx for Intel.

OS X was developed from NextStep which was already available for Intel, and Unix-style stuff is inherently processor-indepenent so while I'm not saying its "trivial" that probably wasn't such a big deal. The hardest bit was probably getting the "Rosetta" stuff working so it could still run PPC binaries.

Could their be a MacBook version with Arm in the future? Possibly. It would feature a "neutered" capability and it would be basically stuck with users only able to get programs via the Mac App Store, which would essentially give Apple the same tie in and control that they have in iOS.

There's no fundamental reason why going to ARM would have to include an app-store tie in. Most recent existing applications written in ObjC or Swift & using Apple frameworks for graphics, multimedia etc. would just need re-compiling. The problem would be "legacy" third-party stuff like MS Office and Adobe CC... but that is maybe less of a deal-breaker now than it would have been 10 years ago, what with MS and Adobe driving off the non-pro users with expensive subscription schemes. Don't think its likely, though - although it would stop Apple being dependent on chipmakers like Intel and IBM releasing the right processors for them.

 

[Cineplex]

Last time they were using a non standard silicon they nearly went out of business.

Again, they did not "nearly go out of business" because of the chips they used. They were making crap products and had no idea what to do. When Jobs came back they spent the next 8 years on PPC and made quite a bit of loot. Most of the "most powerful" Macs came out the PPC era....they don't make that claim anymore. Where is the fastest desktop in the world? Oh ya, that was the G5. Hasn't been such a claim since. When the iPhone came out people switched to Mac because of the iPhone, just like the iPod drove Mac sales in the beginning.

 

[Pentium]

I've been periodically tempted by the Dell XPS 13. From a hardware perspective... gorgeous. But Windows. I have a few Windows systems and I don't ever want to go back to it as my primary system.

I think THAT is the dilemma for many... yeah Apple's hardware is getting dated but it is the only option for those who need/want OSX. (no, hackintoshes don't count )

To a certain extent I think Apple is playing on that. Daring customers, "oh yeah... what are you going to do if we don't release an updated system this year? Go to a Windows system? Go for it! "

I need the 15 inch as start which is getting ancient on the Apple side, and I don't mind Windows at all! Win 10 is more than enough for my needs...and I rely on it at some tasks that Apple can't let me handle well in my Mac.

and the funny part, a fully loaded Dell XPS 15 (4k, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB DD4, Core i7 6700HQ) cost almost the same as the old MacBook Pro now

 

[sracer]

I've had various models of both for years. Perhaps you don't mind that 90% of the Roku apps seriously lack polish, but are you aware that ads are built right into the OS? Aside from the giant ad banner on the home screen, they were thoughtful enough to put them in the god damn screen saver now. I seriously don't understand how Roku fans aren't throwing a fit about it.

None of my Roku 3 devices have ads in any place other than the homescreen. Maybe "ads on the screensaver" are specific to a particular screensaver. THAT could be why fans aren't throwing a fit about it... the rest of us aren't seeing them.

If you want to be restricted to only those channels that Apple allows and have a higher percentage of them with "polish" then yes, Apple TV is for you. I prefer the openness of the Roku where I get to choose the channels and determine if dealing with the lack of "polish" is worth the content that the channel provides.

 

[thekev]

5K to preserve the 16:10 aspect ratio. Never talked about single best feature of MacBook Pros.

The 17" model used a 1920x1200 display. If you apply Apple's typical doubling to each dimension, you get 3840x2400. There have been some 4K displays with that specific resolution.

 

[Osty]

Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?

Why are Linux lovers here?

Yes, yes, it's a free and open forum. I understand that. But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?

For me, I visit and post here for news on Apple because, quite frankly, I don't care for Windows, Linux or any other computing platform.

Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."

!!!

Can't we use more than one operating system?

Think about it: The's Mac's gentle introduction to Unix made Linux much more approachable. Also, there's a heck of a lot developers out there who develop on Mac but target Linux. Even Marco Arment - as big a Mac evangelist as anyone - uses Linux as the backend service provider for overcast and overcast.fm.
[doublepost=1468540587][/doublepost]

Apple's poor thermal design causes their fans to take off like jet engines and cpus to throttle trying to render a web page

I'm curious about this. I've never owned a Macbook Pro so can't comment on those but have had zero thermal problems with my 2011 Mac Mini (including AMD GPU) or with my old 2010 MBA - which my wife currently uses.

The last Mac I owned that had significant thermal problems was the late 2007 Blackbook.

Meanwhile, the Thinkpad X260 (with a Skylake i7 CPU) I'm writing this post on sounds like it's frying an egg every time I use Chrome.

 

[JDW]

So the real question is why are you so blindly devoted to a for-profit company that any criticism at all even from other fans offends you so much you think they shouldn't be here.

Do you think Apple is a religion where every customer has to toe the company line with worshipful devotion?

Why can't long term Apple fans voice their disappointment with the current direction of the company without you labelling them the enemy and attacking them?

Consider well your own huge assumptions:

1) You assume I am blind
2) You assume I worship Apple
3) You assume I never voice disappointment.

All wrong and ridiculous.

I am an Apple fan in this Apple-forum who very often lodges criticism where due, even to the extend that I send Apple regular feedback whenever I am disgruntled. That's a lot, so no doubt they know my name in Cupertino. But the fact is that I being an Apple fan and NOT a fan of other platforms rightfully gives my criticism extra significance in a Mac-centric forum. Other criticism has its place, but those touting the merits of other platforms while criticizing Apple, regardless of whether they sometimes use Apple devices, is arguably less significant on the minds of Apple fans in a Mac-centric forum. It's only logical.
[doublepost=1468543022][/doublepost]

What an absolute juvenile post.

No, "juvenile" would be starting a post with name-calling.
[doublepost=1468543142][/doublepost]

Can't we use more than one operating system?

Are you asking or telling?

It seems silly that clear logic requires further explanation, especially when I just explained it in this post, but here it goes again... YOU CAN use any OS you want. But again, when you really like other OS's and preach those OS's in a Mac-centric forum, and then blast Apple, regardless of whether I as an Apple-lover agree with that blasting, you are perceived in the eyes of Apple fans (who don't use other platforms) as being rather "harsh" and/or such criticism appears to be a bit "out of place" here.

You have liberty to do and say what you want. I am merely pointing out the obvious.

Lastly, I criticize Apple a lot. And I think my criticism is especially justified insofar as I am an Apple fan who has never left the fold since the first Mac came out in 1984. But I tend to do the opposite of what others are doing at any given time. If everyone is turning left at a light, I am inclined to turn right even if I really need to turn left. And when others are bashing Apple in an Apple-centric thread, I tend to say more upbeat and positive things about Apple. Then when I see a threat with Apple worshippers saying nothing but praise, I point out areas that need improvement.

 

[Osty]

People want a PC /Mac that is fast in basic tasks, has a lot of storage, works smooth, easy to use, with a good ecosystem. I can' t see why an arm based Mac won' t be able to pull this off.

an arm based mac(OS) would even benefit from the great iOS ecosystem and contribute to the development of more complex iOS apps in the future.

Spot on.

You have no clue what you're talking about. PC game software sales alone are bigger than the entire music recording industry. But hey, it's easier to close your eyes and pretend a whole group of people don't exist, right?

My first reaction was actually to call BS, but lucky I researched because it turns out that not only are you correct but you actually underestimated the market. PC games in 2015 outsold not only other game platforms but also music - as you said - and box office movie takings. In fairness though, Games have held their price longer where as Music and Movies are under significant market pressure from streaming services. In Australia a new PC game retails for $90AUD where as I can buy a movie or album for less than $20.

It seems like there's a resurgence in PC gaming. More than likely there's a corresponding rise in DIY enthusiasts too who want powerful GPUs.
[doublepost=1468544405][/doublepost]

Are you asking or telling?

It seems silly that clear logic requires further explanation, especially when I just explained it in this post, but here it goes again... YOU CAN use any OS you want. But again, when you really like other OS's and preach those OS's in a Mac-centric forum, and then blast Apple, regardless of whether I as an Apple-lover agree with that blasting, you are perceived in the eyes of Apple fans (who don't use other platforms) as being rather "harsh" and/or such criticism appears to be a bit "out of place" here.

It was a rhetorical question

I'm an Apple fan for the most part but I have to use other platforms as part of my job. I have tried (really tried) using Linux and Android as my daily desktop and mobile driver but I keep coming back to the Mac and iOS. In fact, I'm kind of rediscovering my love of the platform again. Partly that's because of the company, Apple, who are making stances on social and privacy issues that I respect.

Using other platforms though has given me a perspective of what Apple could do better. When I criticise Apple or it's products, it's not through blind hate but because I know they can do better.

 

[designerchick]

I'm going to miss the 17" real estate, but at this point, I'm getting desperate to upgrade my 2010 MBP. Watching the spinning beach balls is getting old.

Agree! My 17" is barely hanging on now.....I've had the logic board replaced twice (luckily, Apple paid for that). I would totally buy a new MBP every few years if they would bring back the 17". Several other brands have a 17" model. Why Apple thought it was unnecessary is beyond me!

 

[Osty]

Why Apple thought it was unnecessary is beyond me!

I imagine they didn't sell in sufficient quantities. I do know several graphic designers though who were royally peeved when it was axed.

 

[LordVic]

No, "juvenile" would be starting a post with name-calling.

I wasn't calling you jeuvenille. I actually usually completely agree with your posts. and almost all of them are bang on

except the post I responded to

1: I agree, if you're just going to come to MacRumors sight in order to bad mouth apple and nothing else. GTFO. this I believe is true of EVERY website. I hate fanboys of any stripe.

2: your post came accross as very self centred and selfish. maybe it was your wording or maybe I just completely misintepreted. but it came accross as "don't come here and talk about anything else and you're not allowed to be critical of Apple's decisions"

if I misread that. I apologize.

but it doesn't change my opinion that we CAN and SHOULD talk about the competition and what they do right and wrong, and how it affects or compares to Apples offering. Apple and OSx(macOS) don't exist in a technology vacuum and need to be held to the same critical standards that every single other tech industry company is too. And sometimes you need to make comparisons to do so.

The difference is. Regardless if you're 100% all in, a fanboy, you have no right to tell someone else their opinion matters less. you can ignore them all you want, but you have no rights to demand they stop posting or talking about their opinion.

 

[Fidgetyrat]

I'm still running my Late 2008 MBP 15", the last model with a removable battery (on my third). With a brand new higher capacity battery, I get maybe 1 hour of use. And I still cling to this machine. It's getting old, websites have beachballs and youtube studders even with an SSD, but Apple has not released anything new or innovative enough to make me want to spend the money while this ol' machine is still *mostly* kicking.

I'm starting to be embarrassed by the new Apple's choices, sticking with "thinner is most important", forcing lighting everything, and having a phone OS that is so dated its appearance is embarrassing but I have way too much disdain for Windows to switch.

I miss being impressed by their products.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

The 17" model used a 1920x1200 display. If you apply Apple's typical doubling to each dimension, you get 3840x2400. There have been some 4K displays with that specific resolution.

You're right. I was mistakenly thinking of the resolution of 27 inch 16:9 displays like the 5K iMac.