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Apple's PC Sales Fall Behind ASUS as Buyers Await Next-Generation MacBook Pro and Other New Models
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I've been periodically tempted by the Dell XPS 13. From a hardware perspective... gorgeous. But Windows. I have a few Windows systems and I don't ever want to go back to it as my primary system.
I think THAT is the dilemma for many... yeah Apple's hardware is getting dated but it is the only option for those who need/want OSX. (no, hackintoshes don't count
)To a certain extent I think Apple is playing on that. Daring customers, "oh yeah... what are you going to do if we don't release an updated system this year? Go to a Windows system? Go for it!
"
I believe Apple would want to change CPUs vendors to something they can participate more into the design of the cpu architecture. But currently Intel isn't holding Apple back, quite ironically new CPU updates comes quite a lot more frequent than Apple is able to update their computers. For what reasons except laziness, I don't know.
But what I do know is that the very instant Apple release a Mac without an Intel cpu will be the moment I know I should run far far away from Apple and never look back.
Apple doesn't use a different version. They use a very tiny selection of chips. Other companies will let you have any chip Intel makes. Apple's choice, cheaper ones, better ones.
And given atrocities like the 2014 mini and MB, Apple's very tiny selection is asinine.
You've kinda both got a point: Apple isn't using "special" Intel chips that never appear in PCs, but you do need to be careful when comparing (and do a lot of looking up of processor model numbers on Intel's website. Also, the XPS 13 range isn't much cheaper than the rMBP 13" when you compare like with like: the sub-$1500 Dell models all have 1080p displays. So,you get:
XPS 13, i7-6560U (15W, 2.2-3.2 GHz), Quad HD display, 245GB HD: $1,699
rMBP 13", i7-5557U (28W, 3.2-3.4 GHz), Retina display, 256GB HD: $1,799
Complicated by the fact that, currently all the XPS-13s with QHD displays on the Dell website have i7s, so I've had to add a $300 BTO i7 to the Mac - frankly the i5 would be better value for money.
...incidentally, the processor in the Dell is still showing "not yet available" on Intel's site, as is the 6567-U which would be the obvious skylake upgrade for the rMBP. Both of these are the ones with the premium "iris" graphics - pretty sure that the last time I looked at the XPS-13 they all had the 6500U with non-Iris graphics. So, as I keep saying, one of the delays for Apple has been that while there are plenty of Skylake systems around, the specific chips that Apple needs - 28W + Iris for the 13" rMBP - have been a long time coming from Intel. Pretty sure that the i7-6770HQ Iris Pro (for the 15" rMBP) hasn't been in the shops long, either (the XPS-15 has the 6700 without Iris Pro - although the all have discrete GPUs too).
Not saying the XPS-13/15 aren't serious contenders, just that the difference isn't quite as "night and day" as some make out and its a bit disingenuous to accuse the Macs of having "outdated" processors when some of the relevant replacement CPUs aren't even officially launched yet.
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Nonsense. For one thing, all the rMBPs use the chips with "Iris" or "Iris Pro" graphics rather than the cheaper/weaker "Intel HD".
No dramas, do as you please. Its a big world with lots of great products for every need.
I'm personally looking forward to Ax based Macs. I don't give a damn about Windows support. The CoreM rMacbook is tempting, but it's more than I'm prepared to pay. Intel's over priced chips are a big part of the price, so if a switch to Ax gives me comparable performance on the low end for a cheaper price then I'm all in. If Apple keeps the price the same and increases their margins, then I too would walk away from the company.
I'm happy for Intel CPUs to stay in the Pro line for those who need the Power and Windows compatibility.
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When it comes to spending thousands of dollars, I think why is a more useful question than why not.
It's a shame the drop off is not even greater, to really send a message to Apple, their sales should have nosedived completely. Who's buying these laptops??? Old outdated chipsets and premium sticker price!
I wish they were hammered more online by the media outlets and that consumers weren't buying any of the crap they are currently selling. It doesn't matter if the current offerings are good enough, they certainly don't warrant the current prices.
Everything I've seen out of Kaby Lake leaks indicate that it's a processor that will most benefit laptops. I would be hard pressed to not purchase a Kaby Lake MBP!
Or maybe people don't like what Apple is pushing towards. I think plenty of people prefer the Air to the MacBook Retina - many people still buy the Non Retina MacBook Pro also - just neither of those machines are 'Apple's vision' so they don't get updates.
There is a place for the MacBook Retina and the MacBook Pro Retina is a GREAT machine in so many ways, but people have different needs and Apple only half heartily accommodates this.
There is a place for the MacBook Retina and the MacBook Pro Retina is a GREAT machine in so many ways, but people have different needs and Apple only half heartily accommodates this.
Seriously? Try reading what you're replying to. Apple gives you Iris/Pro. Everyone else gives you HD, Iris/Pro, or dedicated graphics chips.
Exactly as i said, Apple give you a tiny range, everyone else gives you whatever you want.
Well that's the end of the road for me. I've sold the remaining shares of my Apple stock (only $10k-ish).
I've been buying this stock (again) all year ranging in price from $106 down to $90, average price of about $96.
After analysis, I'm just not sure wtf this company is doing anymore. I've been a big fan of Apple since 2008 when I first bought my Macbook Pro, then iPhone, and pretty much everything after that.
This company is a shadow of its former self. Sure they generate tons of cash, but 90% of that is overseas. They are borrowing money to pay dividends for pete's sake. The company seems to get more loaded with debt by the year, which was never the case under Jobs.
I honestly don't like companies that buyback a ton of stock. This tells me Apple is out of ideas. Tim Cook is robbing this company blind.
They've been spending a fortune in R&D, yet all we have new under Tim Cook is a Watch that collects dust on the nightstand. Sure, they are looking into cars, but....cars???
The Mac line of computers never seem to get updated anymore, yet they'll release 3 iPad size versions and a couple of iPhone versions in a year. I just read a report that Mac sales are on a decline and they've lost what little market share they have, mostly due to the lack of upgrades to the hardware they used to be on the forefront on.
This combined with declining sales of their bread and butter iPhone? Yikes
Judging by WWDC recently, Apple is truly out of ideas and lost its way. Stickers in the messaging app? Ok. Default apps would go a long way for me but whatever.
Plus, I have to wonder why the stock is so cheap. I've been picking it up all year as I've said, but I think investors realize there's no real future with this company anymore. They've got stagnant. I've owned the stock off and on since 2009 so I've made some gains, but I was hoping this round would be the last who-rah.
This stock has done nothing even in the face of the Brexit rally of the past couple of weeks. Zilch. No where. Sideways. Whatever you want to call it, Apple is lagging behind the market and I'm not just talking about the stock market.
The fundamentals of this company has drastically changed.
Perhaps...PERHAPS, once I see this stock in the low 80's and Apple shows some sign of innovation and a new product or two, that'll be the appropriate time to pick it up again.
But for now. I'm out. Good luck to whoever took my trade at $97.40.
I've been buying this stock (again) all year ranging in price from $106 down to $90, average price of about $96.
After analysis, I'm just not sure wtf this company is doing anymore. I've been a big fan of Apple since 2008 when I first bought my Macbook Pro, then iPhone, and pretty much everything after that.
This company is a shadow of its former self. Sure they generate tons of cash, but 90% of that is overseas. They are borrowing money to pay dividends for pete's sake. The company seems to get more loaded with debt by the year, which was never the case under Jobs.
I honestly don't like companies that buyback a ton of stock. This tells me Apple is out of ideas. Tim Cook is robbing this company blind.
They've been spending a fortune in R&D, yet all we have new under Tim Cook is a Watch that collects dust on the nightstand. Sure, they are looking into cars, but....cars???
The Mac line of computers never seem to get updated anymore, yet they'll release 3 iPad size versions and a couple of iPhone versions in a year. I just read a report that Mac sales are on a decline and they've lost what little market share they have, mostly due to the lack of upgrades to the hardware they used to be on the forefront on.
This combined with declining sales of their bread and butter iPhone? Yikes
Judging by WWDC recently, Apple is truly out of ideas and lost its way. Stickers in the messaging app? Ok. Default apps would go a long way for me but whatever.
Plus, I have to wonder why the stock is so cheap. I've been picking it up all year as I've said, but I think investors realize there's no real future with this company anymore. They've got stagnant. I've owned the stock off and on since 2009 so I've made some gains, but I was hoping this round would be the last who-rah.
This stock has done nothing even in the face of the Brexit rally of the past couple of weeks. Zilch. No where. Sideways. Whatever you want to call it, Apple is lagging behind the market and I'm not just talking about the stock market.
The fundamentals of this company has drastically changed.
Perhaps...PERHAPS, once I see this stock in the low 80's and Apple shows some sign of innovation and a new product or two, that'll be the appropriate time to pick it up again.
But for now. I'm out. Good luck to whoever took my trade at $97.40.
You can talk about all these technical limitations and call me clueless.
But you seem a real tech geek. Specs, etc.
Technically you are right.
But the purpose of a pc for gamers has changed over the years
-for gaming, consoles and tablets/smartphones have won the war. people don' t build high end rigs for that anymore, that is a niche.
-PC' s for downloading music and movies, they have lost the war against streaming services, tablets, smartphones and smart tv' s.
Etc, etc.
There will be some demand for very powerful pc' s by professionals for real powerful applications for cad, huge databases, graphic design, etc. but that is really a niche market right now.
So will a Mac with an advanced ax/arm soc be enough for people that want a trackpad or mouse , a real keyboard with a bigger screen for ergonomic reasons to manage spreadsheets, email, write letters, light gaming, social media, etc be enough? I think so.
That is where the mainstream PC market is heading right now.
All you can talk about is very high end PC' s for a small specific /niche market.
That market is very small and niche market these days.
People want a PC /Mac that is fast in basic tasks, has a lot of storage, works smooth, easy to use, with a good ecosystem. I can' t see why an arm based Mac won' t be able to pull this off.
an arm based mac(OS) would even benefit from the great iOS ecosystem and contribute to the development of more complex iOS apps in the future.
You have no clue what you're talking about. PC game software sales alone are bigger than the entire music recording industry. But hey, it's easier to close your eyes and pretend a whole group of people don't exist, right?
Outside of the Apple kool-aid crowd, it doesn't take a very high end computer to beat an iToy.
As it is, no Mac satisfies those criteria. Crippling the CPU isn't going to make things better.
I've started speaking with my wallet. My last Mac was purchased in 2014, and the last one before that was 2010. In the old days I would upgrade yearly. Not anymore. This year I bought a Dell as I didn't want to spend $3k on a Mac Pro. The work I do requires a real graphics card and I'm not interested in the iMacs mobile card. I also require PCI cards....all the Macs are out. Hopefully sales will drop off more and Apple will get the message.
Sjeez, a bit sour and arrogant.
Ok man, you are entirely right. All pc' s sold are high end pc' s, with the latest cup and gpu, not low end to midrange.
What are you even doing on an apple/Mac forum?
My point: Apple can make laptops with an ax soc in 2 years, that will crush the low-end to midrange Intel based laptops out there. And there is a bigger market for low-end to midrange than for high end. That is all.
For the real pro' s that need a very high end PC, there will stil be macs with high end Intel cpu's and dedicated gpu' s.
But PC' s like we know it now, will slowly disappear. You have tablets, consoles, smartphones and smart watches and even smart glasses. Why would we need a PC? For the bigger screen, a physical keyboard, trackpad or mouse?
I really do think that says it all. It sounds a lot like the mentality of those from the Windows world who continue to like Windows over the Mac.
There's no convincing certain people why the Mac is better than Windows. And of course, there's no convincing folk like myself (a Mac user since the 128k in 1984) that the Windows world is better than my Mac.
But it is interesting to see how many Windows die-hards are here in an extremely Mac-centric forum!
I really do think that says it all. It sounds a lot like the mentality of those from the Windows world who continue to like Windows over the Mac.
There's no convincing certain people why the Mac is better than Windows. And of course, there's no convincing folk like myself (a Mac user since the 128k in 1984) that the Windows world is better than my Mac.
But it is interesting to see how many Windows die-hards are here in an extremely Mac-centric forum!
I'm confused..
He said he's never owned an AIO desktop, what does that have to do with Windows?
Sorry - I did misread the last line of your post as just saying Apple uses cheaper chips (I think, on balance, they tend to use the more expensive ones).
However, as I said in the rest of my post, many of the PCs being touted as "Mac Killers" do, in fact, use processors with lower power and/or weaker graphics than the Mac (sometimes enough to wipe out any performance advantage of Skylake) & where there is a choice you have to be careful with the price comparisons. Also pretty sure that the Dell XPS-13s with Iris graphics have only appeared recently (but Dell's website & model naming scheme is horrible so who knows?)
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...and then there's those of us who have regularly used both & realise that its all swings and roundabouts once you get over the initial "waah! different!" shock.
Windows has come a long way since the 20th Century (since when Mac OS has been killed off and replaced by Son-of-NeXTStep and Windows similarly replaced with Cousin-of-VMS).
Personally, there are elements of both Windows and macOS that I like.
What swings it for me is that I like the "Unix with a decent GUI + MS Office" side of macOS (the first thing I do on a new Mac is put Terminal in the dock & install MacPorts) which probably isn't the most mainstream appeal.
However, as of the forthcoming release, Windows is going to have a Linux subsystem... Plus, there's always Linux itself.
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Simply re-read what I wrote...
"...sounds a lot like the mentality of..."
And there you have it.
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It certainly has. Now it bugs you a gazillion times a day to upgrade to Windows 10 if you dare use an earlier version!
And as to Linux, to mention that as an "appeal" illustrates yet another disconnect. Most Mac users couldn't care less about that.
Simply re-read what I wrote...
"...sounds a lot like the mentality of..."
And there you have it.
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It certainly has. Now it bugs you a gazillion times a day to upgrade to Windows 10 if you dare use an earlier version!
And as to Linux, to mention that as an "appeal" illustrates yet another disconnect. Most Mac users couldn't care less about that.
I still don't get it..
Hi diipii, really enjoy reading your comments across the MacRumors forums, and I must agree with you. In fact I'm finding Microsoft (of all companies!) is currently innovating most of all, and I find their services of greatest use in day-to-day life. That said I'm still torn between Microsoft and Linux, but will most likely err toward Microsoft for desktop / office / mobility, and tinker with Linux in the background.
Which begs the question: Why are you folks here, in a Mac-centric forum?
Why are Linux lovers here?
Yes, yes, it's a free and open forum. I understand that. But many of you folks being hard on Apple in this thread are clearly in love with another platform. So why are you posting here? It doesn't make much sense. What does it accomplish for you?
For me, I visit and post here for news on Apple because, quite frankly, I don't care for Windows, Linux or any other computing platform.
Think about it: "Windows/Linux lovers actively posts on "MACRUMORS.COM and wonder why Apple lovers defend MacOS and Apple there."
!!!
Fair comment JDW. I have used Apple products for many years (iPhone, iMac, Apple Watch) but of late I find myself erring more toward Microsoft and (to a far lesser degree) Linux. I like to consider myself open-minded to all technology, and will no doubt remain such; but that said I think it fair - when thinking about how Apple compares and contrasts with other technology companies - to express comment and opinion on an Apple-centric forum.