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Apple's Phil Schiller Discusses Risks of Alternative App Stores on iPhone

wbeasley said:
no one is stopping you using your devices how you want to.
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Except Apple.
wbeasley said:
jailbreak or sideload if you want to. ways exist.
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A jailbreak for iOS 17.3 hasn't been found yet. And you can't sideload for more than 7 days, and you can keep three apps at most at any given time. So no, sensible and decent ways don't exist.
wbeasley said:
but stop forcing your views on the rest of us.
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You keep saying that but you haven't explained how adding a simple toggle in the system settings (what Apple should've done) is "forcing our views" on "the rest" of you.
wbeasley said:
in a democracy we all vote with our wallets.
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That's not what democracy means. The word you're looking for is "market", but a market when a company can make or break your business at whim can and should be regulated for what it is.
wbeasley said:
you knew what Apple products were BEFORE you bought them
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So what? Just because Apple has released 17 versions of iOS without third-party app installation doesn't mean they have to release the 18th the same way. Besides, are you trying to tell me that 100% of iPhone users buy iPhones fully aware that they don't support third-party app installation? I don't think so.
wbeasley said:
we make informed decisions and take responsibility for them.
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You can now make the informed decision of buying iPhone 16 knowing that nothing changes for you if you so choose. As long as you're a citizen of the European Union, anyway.
 
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Samplasion said:
Except Apple.

A jailbreak for iOS 17.3 hasn't been found yet. And you can't sideload for more than 7 days, and you can keep three apps at most at any given time. So no, sensible and decent ways don't exist.

You keep saying that but you haven't explained how adding a simple toggle in the system settings (what Apple should've done) is "forcing our views" on "the rest" of you.

That's not what democracy means. The word you're looking for is "market", but a market when a company can make or break your business at whim can and should be regulated for what it is.

So what? Just because Apple has released 17 versions of iOS without third-party app installation doesn't mean they have to release the 18th the same way. Besides, are you trying to tell me that 100% of iPhone users buy iPhones fully aware that they don't support third-party app installation? I don't think so.

You can now make the informed decision of buying iPhone 16 knowing that nothing changes for you if you so choose. As long as you're a citizen of the European Union, anyway.
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After 17 versions of the iPhone touting a safe vetted AppStore and Apple advertising heavily on security as one of the key differences, I'd say yes you should by now be aware that iPhones only run AppStore apps.

A simple Toggle switch does NOT make it safe for everyone else.
You installing apps can then use your contacts to send messages and links to install apps like you recommended them. Without your knowledge. People will think it's you and may not question it. Rogue code could access data, photos, camera, mic, location. Someone somewhere will try to exploit vulnerabilities.

How about Apple let you choose do you want to use standard Apple supplied OS and apps or would you like to pick another store and you can let your hardware install another OS and apps from there? And your modified phone is treated like an Android OS device.

You decide. Apple give you the option. But it's a one way street unless you factory reset it.
 
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wbeasley said:
After 17 versions of the iPhone touting a safe vetted AppStore and Apple advertising heavily on security as one of the key differences, I'd say yes you should by now be aware that iPhones only run AppStore apps.
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Except that's not true even today. You can run external apps, just not in a way that makes it usable at all. Besides, Apple even says that you can run external apps with no detriment to the OS security. Their word, not mine.

wbeasley said:
You installing apps can then use your contacts to send messages and links to install apps like you recommended them. Without your knowledge. People will think it's you and may not question it. Rogue code could access data, photos, camera, mic, location. Someone somewhere will try to exploit vulnerabilities.
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Which totally happens every day and is not just a strawman argument. And App Store apps have access to your contacts, so who's to say they don't do that already? Not Apple, since they don't run a code review over apps in the App Store.

wbeasley said:
How about Apple let you choose do you want to use standard Apple supplied OS and apps or would you like to pick another store and you can let your hardware install another OS and apps from there? And your modified phone is treated like an Android OS device.
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Yes because Android and iOS are totally the same and they only differ in third-party app installations capabilities. :rolleyes:
 
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Samplasion said:
Except that's not true even today. You can run external apps, just not in a way that makes it usable at all. Besides, Apple even says that you can run external apps with no detriment to the OS security. Their word, not mine.


Which totally happens every day and is not just a strawman argument. And App Store apps have access to your contacts, so who's to say they don't do that already? Not Apple, since they don't run a code review over apps in the App Store.


Yes because Android and iOS are totally the same and they only differ in third-party app installations capabilities. :rolleyes:
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Apple and Android are NOT the same thing.

One is created and controlled by one company.
The other is open source.

App Store apps do not have access to all your contacts.
Each app has a list of what info it wants access to, tells you upfront, and then you decide on permitting it or not.
Sometimes the app wont function because you dont allow access. Or not fully function. I have apps that request access to mic or photos and you can choose to give full or partial access.

Apple Pay is another difference.
The retailer gets no credit card information when you use this function. It's great. Safer than using a card in store.

Where does Apple say you can run external apps with no detriment to OS security? And how are you running these apps?
 
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Seems a few posts have disappeared...

(and now I think I see why with one account Suspended).

This thread was always about technology solutions and how Apple is being forced to change OS on EU demands.

Still have not seen any comments about apps people NEED to run that they currently can't.

I hope the EU agree with the limited changes Apple has made.
I dont think these changes will placate those who wanted open slather to install what they want.
Or wanted everything for free...
 
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wbeasley said:
After 17 versions of the iPhone touting a safe vetted AppStore and Apple advertising heavily on security as one of the key differences, I'd say yes you should by now be aware that iPhones only run AppStore apps.

A simple Toggle switch does NOT make it safe for everyone else.
You installing apps can then use your contacts to send messages and links to install apps like you recommended them. Without your knowledge. People will think it's you and may not question it. Rogue code could access data, photos, camera, mic, location. Someone somewhere will try to exploit vulnerabilities.

How about Apple let you choose do you want to use standard Apple supplied OS and apps or would you like to pick another store and you can let your hardware install another OS and apps from there? And your modified phone is treated like an Android OS device.

You decide. Apple give you the option. But it's a one way street unless you factory reset it.
Click to expand...

This sounds less about safety, and more about applying a punitive measure to those who choose to download any apps from outside Apple’s store. You’re trying to make those iOS users into second class citizens. What’s next, no blue bubble?

The attack vector of a spoofed iMessage is quite specific. Apple could block iMessage links to apps in non-Apple app stores perhaps, or at least make the user click through a warning first.
 
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mode11 said:
This sounds less about safety, and more about applying a punitive measure to those who choose to download any apps from outside Apple’s store. You’re trying to make those iOS users into second class citizens. What’s next, no blue bubble?

The attack vector of a spoofed iMessage is quite specific. Apple could block iMessage links to apps in non-Apple app stores perhaps, or at least make the user click through a warning first.
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It's interesting how Apple's software quality has gone down (hardware, too) while their media presence and blamegame has gone up.
Tells a lot about where the priorities lie these days.
 
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