Apple's Phil Schiller Recommends Lightning Dock for Charging an iPhone 7 While Listening to Music

[Ploki]

Oh Darling, thanks for caring.

I'm not caring about you, I'm caring about others who aren't silly enough to mute their surroundings when they drive.

And by the way, the only issue with BT and audio is latency. Everything else is incredible.

 

[jacobj]

will this silence the whining? no. of course not. there must always be whining.

there was also a BT clip posted to MR not long ago that had a 3.5mm jack in it, i believe. simple solution for older cars (or a replacement head unit, of course).

You are implying that people should just get over this? Every day that is a point in my day where I have to use wired headphones and it is also the most convenient time to charge my phone. If I were to upgrade to a 7, then I would have to find some other time to charge (that would be less of an issue if there were rapid charging, but Apple failed to notice that in the design process).

I have been using bluetooth headphones for several years now and am a big advocate of them; but not for every situation.

The fact the Schiller thinks that this is a worthy response to the issue just demonstrates that Apple failed to grasp that this is a real pain for some people.

I tried to leave Apple this year, but I had such confidence in them for so long that I have the better part of £1,000 invested in movies and TV series that I couldn't use on an Android device. If they opened that up, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

 

[Ploki]

You are implying that people should just get over this? Every day that is a point in my day where I have to use wired headphones and it is also the most convenient time to charge my phone. If I were to upgrade to a 7, then I would have to find some other time to charge (that would be less of an issue if there were rapid charging, but Apple failed to notice that in the design process).

Why would they open it up? It's their platform. People fail to realize that you aren't just paying for raw materials used for building a phone, you're paying for R&D and the Ecosystem...

Can you describe the situation in which you have to use wired headphones and charge at the same time? You know, maybe someone will have a good idea if you actually want this issue solved and not just whine about it.

 

[jacobj]

Why would they open it up? It's their platform. People fail to realize that you aren't just paying for raw materials used for building a phone, you're paying for R&D and the Ecosystem...

Can you describe the situation in which you have to use wired headphones and charge at the same time? You know, maybe someone will have a good idea if you actually want this issue solved and not just whine about it.

It's slightly embarrassing. For years I haven't been able to fall asleep without a play or audiobook in the background. My wife hates it, so I fall asleep with an earbud in my left ear. I also charge it then.

I also have a point in the day at work where I like to listen to music in one ear and charge st that time. Bluetooth headphones are too conspicuous.

By the way apple themselves opened up iTunes and music to non DRM because they claimed they never wanted it. They also have cross platform Apple Music and iTunes apps. So the videos one doesn't stack up unless the studios are restricting them creating cross platform apps

 

[Ploki]

It's slightly embarrassing. For years I haven't been able to fall asleep without a play or audiobook in the background. My wife hates it, so I fall asleep with an earbud in my left ear. I also charge it then.

I also have a point in the day at work where I like to listen to music in one ear and charge st that time. Bluetooth headphones are too conspicuous.

By the way apple themselves opened up iTunes and music to non DRM because they claimed they never wanted it. They also have cross platform Apple Music and iTunes apps. So the videos one doesn't stack up unless the studios are restricting them creating cross platform apps

I actually did the same thing for a while, but because I move a lot I'd rip something out from somewhere eventually (be it lightning or headphone cable, or the phone would end up god knows where because I pulled it). I'm actually looking forward to AirPods for that too (I have a 6 and I'm not planning to buy a 7), although they're a bit on the expensive side earpods are still the best buds I've tried, and I hate in-ears.

I forgot they opened apple music, my bad. It all depends on their contracts with publishers though

 

[SlCKB0Y]

There ya go. Acting like the dongle for the legacy 3.5mm port is any different than the serial USB, or the wireless optical, or all the other transition accommodations is just persecution fantasy.

Need to use a 3.5mm device, use the incredibly cheap dongle available. Need to charge and have a data port, use the Belkin or some other one that comes down the line.

Shed a tear for those that can’t make either decision without gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? Sorry, Luddites have never been the Apple market anyway.

Take care and I hope you get something that makes you happy real soon.

You've been parroting this same stuff for dozens of pages and not once have you been able to coherently argue how the 3.5mm jack is obsolete. You also persist in ad-hominem attacks ("Luddite") and misleading comparisons to scenarios such as the removal of floppy drives (which were actually obsolete and not at all comparable to the current situation). These are the last refuges of the desperate.

 

[Ploki]

You've been parroting this same stuff for dozens of pages and not once have you been able to coherently argue how the 3.5mm jack is obsolete.

How was VGA obsolete when it came out? Most of screens weren't capable of displaying anything near the resolution any way.

Digital connections are simpler, require less cables, are less prone to losses (you either have total loss or none, but there is no inherent signal degradation with a digital signal).

Further more, by removing the 3.5mm jack, DAC and preamp are moved onto the adapter or the connection is entirely digital.

DVI was not inherently better than VGA, but apple always rushed with ditching old standard to have them replaced with new standards. Exact same uproars happened when apple ditched VGA when first intel MacBook Pros came out, when Retina macbooks came out with no optical media (and don't tell me optical media was obsolete in 2012, BluRay had potential back then).

It's not that its obsolete in the sense that it cannot be used anymore, its just unecessary. PS2 wasn't obsolete either, it was simply replaced.

There are many other and better ways for connecting audio than analogue via jack... Your argument is the argument for VGA vs DVI. It's exactly the same and its a shift from digital to analogue.

edit:
Headphones don't perform up to their optimal design if not paired to an optimal preamp. by switching a connection to digital, this means that both preamp and DAC are offloaded meaning that headphones can now have their own (optimal for their design) powered preamps directly from the active digital port.
Of course, that is all possible while retaining the 3.5mm jack, but implementing Thunderbolt is also possible while retaining the VGA port.
However, you cannot make laptop as slim, light, and have that much battery if you keep it.

and, its much harder to keep the iphone waterproof with a stereo jack. It takes quite some space and when you're designing things with simplicity in mind, analogue devices take up space.

 

[JayIsAwesome]

Ha, Phil and Tim when the AirPod/iPhone 7 checks come in

 

[HoosBruce]

People are like...

 

[leroypants]

Dear Phil
@#!% You
Sincerely millions of IPhone users
[doublepost=1473598737][/doublepost]

will this silence the whining? no. of course not. there must always be whining.

there was also a BT clip posted to MR not long ago that had a 3.5mm jack in it, i believe. simple solution for older cars (or a replacement head unit, of course).

No wonder Apple fans are referred to as a "cult"...
[doublepost=1473599259][/doublepost]

A lot of pissed off people that don't even own the device ITT.

If you can't live without charging and using connected headphones at the same time, then don't buy it. Move on. Quit wasting your time crying about it.

Exactly and watch the hundreds or thousands of dollars you've invested in ITunes content vanish.

 

[BobVB]

You've been parroting this same stuff for dozens of pages and not once have you been able to coherently argue how the 3.5mm jack is obsolete. You also persist in ad-hominem attacks ("Luddite") and misleading comparisons to scenarios such as the removal of floppy drives (which were actually obsolete and not at all comparable to the current situation). These are the last refuges of the desperate.

Actually I have, its a simulation of a legacy fiction that can be duplicated by the port remaining. Obsolete in the absolute sense - never said that. Redundant on a phone? Yes, that it is. And that you only notice my usage of the term Luddite once but ignore the ‘LOL’s and ‘moron’ ad-hominem’s hurled my way shows your bias.

And no, floppies were not obsolete, they still worked just fine just as you seem to think the 3.5mm does. What happened is a better option came along and a full powered data bus definitely trumps a 2out/1in legacy connection status.

Yes you are at your last refuge, attacking the messenger. The future is powered data bus ports that can do virtually anything the user might want, not limited old ports that can only do a few old tricks.

The 3.5mm is gone, its not coming back. Come to terms with that or not - I no longer care what you do.

 

[leroypants]

Here's a solution for you. Don't buy an iPhone 7. Seriously. Skip a generation and wait until you acquired updated tech to live without a 3.5mm port. Apple is making a stand for progress. And they've decided where the future of audio technology is going to go. It is going to be a lot better. But with any shake up there is going to be some pain.

The iPhone 7 is at the bleeding edge of tech. And it seems that a lot of people need to take a step back from that edge.

Wow "a stand for progress" is the new mantra for the Kool-aid aid drinking cultist?
[doublepost=1473612010][/doublepost]

Welcome to the club!!! People saying Bluetooth audio has lower quality because the specs says so, but their ears are not so sensible to feel difference and they listening to crappie 48bit mp3 No seriously I have the Sony MR1BT and puuurfeect, no cable tangles, no issue, I can let,you phone on my desk while going to pee with headphone, just FREEDOM... Only side effect.... 30hours autonomy...(Single charge) Mou hahaha

300 dollars for inferior headphones....no wonder Apple was able to convince the gullible, the suckers, and the cultists that removing the headphone jack was a good idea.
[doublepost=1473612407][/doublepost]

My concern is that too many people will cave in and buy the phone anyway.

Apple is so influential that many people refuse to think for themselves and let Apple herd them around.

I'm certainly _not_ going to buy an iPhone 7 and hope to be a part of a large group that do not buy either. Time will tell.

Everyone I know is pissed by the money grab removal of the headphone jack by Apple but in reality the choice is to move to Android and flush all the investments made in ITunes down the toilet or continue with Apple.
[doublepost=1473612903][/doublepost]

still waiting for the floppy drive in my iPhone. wwaaahhhhh :`(

That's actually extremely funny and creative and you have to be the first person to make a joke like that, you must be a famous and well know comedian.

 

[Adam F]

From the Bose website, Bluetooth headphones have some limitations:

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products...-wireless-headphones-ii.html#ProductTabs_tab3

"Can these headphones be used for gaming?

no. most gaming consoles do not use the same bluetooth protocols as soundlink® headphones. a2dp is necessary for audio with the headphones, so they would only work for communications, not game audio. in general, the audio/video delay will be excessive and most noticeable in games where action and audio are supposed to be synchronized. players of casual games with sound effects may not have an issue."

"Do these headphones work with my TV? Would they work with a Bluetooth transmitter?

no. many tvs do not have wireless bluetooth functionality. although a transmitter will technically work, the experience does not meet bose expectations. there will be a distracting delay between the audio and video that detracts from the experience."


Honest question: How did Apple fix this?

 

[simon lefisch]

Lucky me I can't imagine an scenario where I would need to charge the phone and listen to music with headphones at the same time.

EDIT: Don't bring up the trips and flights argument—you should be responsible enough to bring your phone at 100% to the trip. Plus, the phone lasts at least 2 more hours than the 6s and since you can't use mobile or wifi while in a plane, you don't have that much to do but enjoy 40 hours of music AND low power mode eventually.

Almost every airline offers wifi on a plane. Granted you have to pay for it, but it is available. Therefore you can stream and makes calls.

 

[Mac 128]

Almost every airline offers wifi on a plane. Granted you have to pay for it, but it is available. Therefore you can stream and makes calls.

That may be true for many flights over land, but that is not true for international flights (GoGo drops out the minute you leave the continental US), and definitely not the case for many flights over water.

 

[simon lefisch]

That may be true for many flights over land, but that is not true for international flights (GoGo drops out the minute you leave the continental US), and definitely not the case for many flights over water.

Some airlines offer wifi for international flights on specific planes, so it depends on the airline.

 

[Mac 128]

Some airlines offer wifi for international flights on specific planes, so it depends on the airline.

I'm aware. However, American Airlines does not offer it currently on flights I've been on recently to Hawaii for instance. And that's my point. People should not expect that internet will be available on every airline, or even every plane, especially when flying over water.

 

[simon lefisch]

I'm aware. However, American Airlines does not offer it currently on flights I've been on recently to Hawaii for instance. And that's my point. People should not expect that internet will be available on every airline, or even every plane, especially when flying over water.

I'm not saying peeps should expect it on every single plane. It was stated that you cannot use wifi on planes and I was stating that you can, albeit not on every plane. Besides, it's well documented what planes have wifi (domestic/international). Peeps just need to read where it's offered.

 

[calzon65]

This is simply false. That is NOT what analog means. Where did you even get this ludicrous idea from?

You should really watch this video, which dispells many false myths that (even some intelligent) people actually believe:

What this video shows is that if you play a digital AIFF of a sine wave sound, and look at an analog oscilliscope reading of it, it will be totally identical to a sine wave that came from a fully analog signal path. The same applies for other types of waveforms that have been digitized, then turned back into analog waveforms.

The point is that an analog signal coming out of a DAC is indistinguishable from one that was never converted to digital in the first place. The reason why people think analog "sounds better" has to do with other reasons that I will not go into here, but suffice it to say you should spend some time lurking on the gearslutz.com forums for awhile and get your head straight, before you make any further embarassingly wrong comments.

Note: music synthesizer apps don't compress their audio, so there is no point in talking about compression in the context of my qualms.

This is also false. There is no such thing as "true analog." Dave Smith Instruments and even Moog now use digital oscillators as the signal generators in their analog synths, because it does not matter, or make any difference. Once the signal is analog, it is identical no matter whether it came from an analog or digital source.

NO, don't misunderstand me. I still think they should not have removed the 3.5mm port. Most people, including me, find it very inconvenient and annoying to need a crappy dongle adapter for a basic function that we use every day, like audio output.

My point was just that I personally would have been able to cope with it had they at least replaced the 3.5mm port with a Lightning port, instead of replacing it with no second port. That is the worst thing they could have done because rather than solving the cable problem, it makes it worse; now I need to shell out $50-150 and attach an order of magnitude MORE cables to accomplish the same thing as before.

For example, the Korg plugKey is a Lightning-to-MIDI/Audio adapter for musicians. It is $99. Korg brags about its official certification, but since it only has a 4-inch cable, how are you supposed to use it if you are holding the phone or wearing it in an arm case, etc.? Simple physics tells us that such a hub adapter, once it has four or five long and heavy cables plugged in, is going to easily come unplugged out of the bottom of the phone, because it will have significant forces tugging on it and weighing on it. This is worse than useless at a live show.

So therefore you'll need a Lightning male-to-female cable. However, none exist that have MFI certification, from what I could gather in about 2 hours of searching, and a visit to my local Apple store. The Apple employee just blankly stared at me when I asked for a "Lightning extension cable."



You have absolutely no data to back up your claim about what "most people" don't need. You are stating your personal opinion as if it were a fact. Personally, I think your mind seems divorced from logic and reason.

I doubt that even Apple believes that most people don't use the two ports simultaneously on a regular basis. I believe that Apple knows that people use the two ports all time, to charge while driving and playing music, to keep their device charged while using a Square credit card swiper as they run their business, to hook up a MIDI keyboard and an amp, etc.

They know this, but because they have lost the ability to grow their business by creatively innovating, now they are resorting to what most companies do, which is tell their customers to bend over, and take it, and like it. They know that we will HAVE to buy these various adapters and cables and hubs and crap to keep living our digigal lives, and they think this will make them more profit.

That is the ONLY logical explanation for why they would cripple the device like they have done.



And how much will this cost? What effect will forcing users to buy it have on the barrier to entry for apps like Korg Gadget or Square? You say these are niches but you have no data to back up your claims. I think these are the only markets left where Apple was holding a significant technical and features advantage over the likes of Samsung.

But the real problem is that the days are gone where Apple can ask its customers to bend over and expect them to stick around because of how much better the product is. Nowadays there is a much slimmer margin in perceived quality between iPhone and Galaxy. They had a golden opportunity to capitalize on the Galaxy's explosion issues; but what do they do? Hose themselves with no stock levels for upgraders and removing a core feature that will result in many people simply not upgrading, or possibly even leaving the platform.



No, it is also going to upset people who do not want to spend hundreds of dollars on proprietary accessories that, for all we know, they will force us to re-buy once again in another three or four years. What happens when they get wireless charging? Will they take off lightning too? It does beg the question; people had only just forgotten about having to rebuy all their charging cables when 30-pin was ditched. And now this? It is very, very upsetting to a great number of consumers, judging from the reaction in social media and online. No one that I know was happy about this.

Yes, it hurts me more than others, but it is still insane. Don't fool yourself.



You can bet that as a stockholder, a developer, and a 32-year customer, they will be hearing from me on this one. Minimalism does not mean removing core functionality and core compatibility. It does not mean hurting your developers, creative, and educational customers by raising the bar to entry for things like music education, which is underfunded enough as it is.

There are so many arguments against this nonsense, and yet amongst all of it, there is not one good reason why they really needed to do this.

If they were going to do this, the very least they could have done is to give us some kind of external wireless receiver that brings in the audio output stream from the device and plays it out through analog outputs with no compression or latency, and included that with the iPhone for free. THAT, I would have been on board with! But no, Apple, the richest company in the world, could not think of what its customers would actually prefer or want. It could not see this because... why?

I don't want to say it's because they lack a visionary leader, because I mean, I think the Mac Pro Cylinder was an incredibly innovative and visionary product that will change computing (just wait and see). But we are not even talking about the future or anything; we are talking about the present, about how people already use their devices.

I honestly wish I worked at Apple so I could help them not make mistakes like this.

This is simply false. That is NOT what analog means. Where did you even get this ludicrous idea from?

You should really watch this video, which dispells many false myths that (even some intelligent) people actually believe:

What this video shows is that if you play a digital AIFF of a sine wave sound, and look at an analog oscilliscope reading of it, it will be totally identical to a sine wave that came from a fully analog signal path. The same applies for other types of waveforms that have been digitized, then turned back into analog waveforms.

The point is that an analog signal coming out of a DAC is indistinguishable from one that was never converted to digital in the first place. The reason why people think analog "sounds better" has to do with other reasons that I will not go into here, but suffice it to say you should spend some time lurking on the gearslutz.com forums for awhile and get your head straight, before you make any further embarassingly wrong comments.

Note: music synthesizer apps don't compress their audio, so there is no point in talking about compression in the context of my qualms.







This is also false. There is no such thing as "true analog." Dave Smith Instruments and even Moog now use digital oscillators as the signal generators in their analog synths, because it does not matter, or make any difference. Once the signal is analog, it is identical no matter whether it came from an analog or digital source.



NO, don't misunderstand me. I still think they should not have removed the 3.5mm port. Most people, including me, find it very inconvenient and annoying to need a crappy dongle adapter for a basic function that we use every day, like audio output.

My point was just that I personally would have been able to cope with it had they at least replaced the 3.5mm port with a Lightning port, instead of replacing it with no second port. That is the worst thing they could have done because rather than solving the cable problem, it makes it worse; now I need to shell out $50-150 and attach an order of magnitude MORE cables to accomplish the same thing as before.

For example, the Korg plugKey is a Lightning-to-MIDI/Audio adapter for musicians. It is $99. Korg brags about its official certification, but since it only has a 4-inch cable, how are you supposed to use it if you are holding the phone or wearing it in an arm case, etc.? Simple physics tells us that such a hub adapter, once it has four or five long and heavy cables plugged in, is going to easily come unplugged out of the bottom of the phone, because it will have significant forces tugging on it and weighing on it. This is worse than useless at a live show.

So therefore you'll need a Lightning male-to-female cable. However, none exist that have MFI certification, from what I could gather in about 2 hours of searching, and a visit to my local Apple store. The Apple employee just blankly stared at me when I asked for a "Lightning extension cable."



You have absolutely no data to back up your claim about what "most people" don't need. You are stating your personal opinion as if it were a fact. Personally, I think your mind seems divorced from logic and reason.

I doubt that even Apple believes that most people don't use the two ports simultaneously on a regular basis. I believe that Apple knows that people use the two ports all time, to charge while driving and playing music, to keep their device charged while using a Square credit card swiper as they run their business, to hook up a MIDI keyboard and an amp, etc.

They know this, but because they have lost the ability to grow their business by creatively innovating, now they are resorting to what most companies do, which is tell their customers to bend over, and take it, and like it. They know that we will HAVE to buy these various adapters and cables and hubs and crap to keep living our digigal lives, and they think this will make them more profit.

That is the ONLY logical explanation for why they would cripple the device like they have done.



And how much will this cost? What effect will forcing users to buy it have on the barrier to entry for apps like Korg Gadget or Square? You say these are niches but you have no data to back up your claims. I think these are the only markets left where Apple was holding a significant technical and features advantage over the likes of Samsung.

But the real problem is that the days are gone where Apple can ask its customers to bend over and expect them to stick around because of how much better the product is. Nowadays there is a much slimmer margin in perceived quality between iPhone and Galaxy. They had a golden opportunity to capitalize on the Galaxy's explosion issues; but what do they do? Hose themselves with no stock levels for upgraders and removing a core feature that will result in many people simply not upgrading, or possibly even leaving the platform.



No, it is also going to upset people who do not want to spend hundreds of dollars on proprietary accessories that, for all we know, they will force us to re-buy once again in another three or four years. What happens when they get wireless charging? Will they take off lightning too? It does beg the question; people had only just forgotten about having to rebuy all their charging cables when 30-pin was ditched. And now this? It is very, very upsetting to a great number of consumers, judging from the reaction in social media and online. No one that I know was happy about this.

Yes, it hurts me more than others, but it is still insane. Don't fool yourself.



You can bet that as a stockholder, a developer, and a 32-year customer, they will be hearing from me on this one. Minimalism does not mean removing core functionality and core compatibility. It does not mean hurting your developers, creative, and educational customers by raising the bar to entry for things like music education, which is underfunded enough as it is.

There are so many arguments against this nonsense, and yet amongst all of it, there is not one good reason why they really needed to do this.

If they were going to do this, the very least they could have done is to give us some kind of external wireless receiver that brings in the audio output stream from the device and plays it out through analog outputs with no compression or latency, and included that with the iPhone for free. THAT, I would have been on board with! But no, Apple, the richest company in the world, could not think of what its customers would actually prefer or want. It could not see this because... why?

I don't want to say it's because they lack a visionary leader, because I mean, I think the Mac Pro Cylinder was an incredibly innovative and visionary product that will change computing (just wait and see). But we are not even talking about the future or anything; we are talking about the present, about how people already use their devices.

I honestly wish I worked at Apple so I could help them not make mistakes like this.

Great post darkgoob, I never even thought of all the Square users who will now be screwed by the 3.5mm removal.

Apple is not brave to make this change, they are selfish.

 

[Deihmos]

I really like the iPhone software but this is some real BS. Next phone will be Android.

 

[Rigby]

EDIT: Don't bring up the trips and flights argument—you should be responsible enough to bring your phone at 100% to the trip. Plus, the phone lasts at least 2 more hours than the 6s and since you can't use mobile or wifi while in a plane, you don't have that much to do but enjoy 40 hours of music AND low power mode eventually.

Actually flights are a very good example. Many airlines are switching from traditional in-flight entertainment to a "bring your own device" model, where passengers can stream movies to their own devices via the onboard Wifi (e.g. United). Another use case is gaming. I recently spent hours during a flight playing Deus Ex Go on my iPad because I just couldn't stop. This sucks your battery empty very quickly. If Apple drops the headphone jack on the iPads too I'll have to switch to an alternative even though I much prefer iOS.

 

[a.gomez]

A 24 bit DAC in an embedded device with that amount of digital and RF noise floating around inside is an absolute JOKE. It's nothing but marketing bs.

Sure you can put one in there; but you will NEVER get truly meaningful 24 bit performance out if it, period.

What is marketing BS is the idea that Audio over Bluetooth 4.2 @256-Kbps AAC encoding is the future.

I've been in this world long enough to have heard that same "no way to shield to preserve signal integrity" nonsense to know it is also BS. Needing to deal with noise interference from the internal components and radio frequencies is nothing new.

 

[jacobj]

A lot of pissed off people that don't even own the device ITT.

If you can't live without charging and using connected headphones at the same time, then don't buy it. Move on. Quit wasting your time crying about it.

You can't really believe that this is a valid argument surely? This must be an attempt to troll!

Many of us have invested £1000's in the Apple eco system and cannot afford to simply walk away and some of us have genuine situations where this is an issue. Let people share their views and let's see how many there are and how loudly they scream: assuming you think that each person is entitled to a view.

In addition, there are some of us that are concerned that Apple is making decisions poorly and referencing their own history as validation (e.g. floppy, optical, VGA, etc.). In all cases they were valid, but in none did Apple replace them with a proprietary system. Supplying a dongle in the box is akin to them putting an external optical drive in with the first Retina MacBook Pro. They didn't because they had the COURAGE of their convictions. It appears that they are slightly nervous themselves because even they think it is a little too early for this.

Perhaps if they had switched to USB C at the same time and used that we would be moaning less.

 

[Ploki]

What is marketing BS is the idea that Audio over Bluetooth 4.2 @256-Kbps AAC encoding is the future.

I've been in this world long enough to have heard that same "no way to shield to preserve signal integrity" nonsense to know it is also BS. Needing to deal with noise interference from the internal components and radio frequencies is nothing new.

The **** you on about. bluetooth datarate is already beyond that of 48/24 uncompressed audio (lets not get into lossless compression) and the standard is evolving.

A 24 bit DAC in an embedded device with that amount of digital and RF noise floating around inside is an absolute JOKE. It's nothing but marketing bs.

Sure you can put one in there; but you will NEVER get truly meaningful 24 bit performance out if it, period.

There's no DAC in the world that performs in a true meaningful 24bit way, most of them are either limited by the analog path around to around -120dB SNR (and this is EXCELLENT performance) or by DAC self noise since most of them operate as sigma/delta converter.
[doublepost=1473662297][/doublepost]

You can't really believe that this is a valid argument surely? This must be an attempt to troll!

Many of us have invested £1000's in the Apple eco system and cannot afford to simply walk away and some of us have genuine situations where this is an issue. Let people share their views and let's see how many there are and how loudly they scream: assuming you think that each person is entitled to a view.

In addition, there are some of us that are concerned that Apple is making decisions poorly and referencing their own history as validation (e.g. floppy, optical, VGA, etc.). In all cases they were valid, but in none did Apple replace them with a proprietary system. Supplying a dongle in the box is akin to them putting an external optical drive in with the first Retina MacBook Pro. They didn't because they had the COURAGE of their convictions. It appears that they are slightly nervous themselves because even they think it is a little too early for this.

Perhaps if they had switched to USB C at the same time and used that we would be moaning less.

Really? First generation of unibody macbooks replaced ALL video outputs with proprietary system. And you didn't get a dongle supplied with it. If you wanted to connect it to external display you needed to buy a (rather expensive) dongle. More of them honestly. (And you still do)

Second (retina) generation of unibody macbooks replaced all DATA connections with a proprietary system. and if you wanted to use FW devices (so many of them, video cameras, a lot of audio interfaces, hard disks) you needed to buy a (rather expensive) dongle. Also ethernet.

How is this new?

edit: not only that, the previous generation macbooks had DIFFERENT video outputs for which you also needed additional adapters which were rendered useless when new gen came out.

edit2: i won't even talk about the new MacBook which replaced everything with a single USB-C port.

 

[iamgalactic]

So is that Brexit or just the typical Apple tax we have to blame this time

...or Apple punishing us for the £15 billion tax bill?